In article [EMAIL PROTECTED],
Kay Schluehr [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Sorry, Cameron, if I twist meanings.
Thomas argues that Python programmers are more expensive than Java
ones. But if one needs more Java programmers to fit into the project
plan one needs probably more managenment/admistration
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED],
Kay Schluehr [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
.
.
.
less expensive. Arguing that a Python project definitely needs less
programmers than the Java counterpart ( which is very cost effective
because you
Sorry, Cameron, if I twist meanings.
Thomas argues that Python programmers are more expensive than Java
ones. But if one needs more Java programmers to fit into the project
plan one needs probably more managenment/admistration staff ( ~ ratio =
1/3)
and managers are usually more expensive than
Steve Jorgensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Sat, 11 Jun 2005 11:51:02 -0500, tom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
...
Let me add an Item #3 -
If you have some entrepeneurial savvy and can keep your emotions out of
it tou can simply tell them you have decided strike
On Monday 13 June 2005 08:46 am, Thomas Bartkus wrote:
Steve Jorgensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Sat, 11 Jun 2005 11:51:02 -0500, tom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
...
Let me add an Item #3 -
If you have some entrepeneurial savvy and can keep your emotions
I agree about the stiffing the guys that brought you to the party, that
was 100% the DotCom plan, offer crap salary and tonnes of options
then fire/replace all the people that worked for _FREE_ practically
when the next round of funding comes in, rinse, repeat.
Either way . . . I think the guy
man this is the worst advice I have ever heard, you can't walk away
with code someone else paid you to write. Regardless of what your
perceived slight is.
NEVER take code you were paid to write unless you have it in writing
that you can, you will lose that one everytime.
--
fuzzylollipop [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
man this is the worst advice I have ever heard, you can't walk away
with code someone else paid you to write. Regardless of what your
perceived slight is.
NEVER take code you were paid to write unless you have it in
Paul Rubin replied to me:
If you're running a web site with 100k users (about 1/3 of the size of
Slashdot) that begins to be the range where I'd say LAMP starts
running out of gas.
Let me elaborate a bit. That claim of 100K from me is the
entire population of people who would use
Andrew Dalke [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I know little about it, though I read at
http://goathack.livejournal.org/docs.html
] LiveJournal source is lots of Perl mixed up with lots of MySQL
I found more details at
http://jeremy.zawodny.com/blog/archives/001866.html
It's a bunch of things -
Drazen Gemic wrote:
With Java I depend very little on customers IT staff, sysadmins, etc. If
I need additional functionality in form library, extension, whatever, all
I need is to drop another JAR in, and that does it.
Maybe this is for you?
http://peak.telecommunity.com/DevCenter/PythonEggs
Andrew Dalke [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Paul Rubin replied to me:
As for big, hmm, I'd say as production web sites go, 100k users is
medium sized, Slashdot is largish, Ebay is big, Google is huge.
I'ld say that few sites have 100k users, much less
daily users with personalized information. As
On Sat, 11 Jun 2005 11:51:02 -0500, tom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
...
Let me add an Item #3 -
If you have some entrepeneurial savvy and can keep your emotions out of
it tou can simply tell them you have decided strike out on your own and
tell them that you will be available. They will be happy to
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED],
Paul Rubin http://[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
What example? Slashdot? It uses way more hardware than it needs to,
at least ten servers and I think a lot more. If LJ is using 6x as
many servers and taking 20x (?) as much traffic as Slashdot, then LJ
is doing
Paul Rubin http://phr.cx@NOSPAM.invalid wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Andrew Dalke [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
If that's indeed the case then I'll also argue that each of
them is going to have app-specific choke points which are best
hand-optimized and not framework optimized. Is
] Behalf
Of Terry Reedy
Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2005 9:48 AM
To: python-list@python.org
Subject: Re: Dealing with marketing types...
Paul Rubin http://phr.cx@NOSPAM.invalid wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Andrew Dalke [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
If that's indeed the case then I'll also argue
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Aahz) writes:
So what? I think you're missing the real point of the article: using
LAMP scales *DOWN* in a way that enterprise systems don't. Getting your
first prototype up and running is far more important than sheer
scalability,
There comes a day when your first
Paul Rubin wrote:
Andrew Dalke [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
...
I found more details at
http://jeremy.zawodny.com/blog/archives/001866.html
It's a bunch of things - Perl, C, MySQL-InnoDB, MyISAM, Akamai,
memcached. The linked slides say lots of MySQL usage. 60 servers.
LM uses MySQL
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED],
Paul Rubin http://[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Aahz) writes:
So what? I think you're missing the real point of the article: using
LAMP scales *DOWN* in a way that enterprise systems don't. Getting your
first prototype up and running is far more
On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 13:41:13 -0500, phil wrote:
What experiences have those in the Python community had in these kinds
of situations?
Ive had lots of experience updating my resume and
developing software at home. In Python.
Java is a clumsy kludge. And the java environment has
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED],
flyingfred0 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
A small software team (developers, leads and even the manager when he's
had time) has been using (wx)Python/PostgreSQL for over 2 years and
developed a successful 1.0 release of a client/server product.
A marketing/product
On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 21:57:40 -0700, fuzzylollipop wrote:
I was completely serious, he is _NOT_ going to win this one. He has
already lost. I have been on both sides of this scenario, the new guys
were brought in and will win since they are the new experts from out of
town.
Not only do I take
: Re: Dealing with marketing types...
On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 21:57:40 -0700, fuzzylollipop wrote:
I was completely serious, he is _NOT_ going to win this one. He has
already lost. I have been on both sides of this scenario, the new guys
were brought in and will win since they are the new experts
On Sat, 11 Jun 2005 10:27:26 -0700, bruce wrote:
i don't know what the original thread is/was...
but.. if you are part of an initial project.. get in writing what your role
is if you're as a partner, get it in writing... if you're as a hired
gun.. get it in writing... if you can't get
Terry Hancock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://naeblis.cx/rtomayko/2005/05/28/ibm-poop-heads
which is probably what you meant.
Thanks for digging this up. It solidified my understanding of why LAMP.
TJR
--
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], EP
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes
that means) and are going crazy throwing around the Java buzzwords (not to
mention XML).
Sounds like someone has read about AJAX and decided that is what is
next. They probably put 2 and 2 together and came up with 5 thinking the
J
Terry Reedy [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
http://naeblis.cx/rtomayko/2005/05/28/ibm-poop-heads
which is probably what you meant.
Thanks for digging this up. It solidified my understanding of why LAMP.
That article makes a lot of bogus claims and is full of hype. LAMP is
a nice way to throw a
This is the never ending story of the cyclic (I'm being redundant) life
cycle of many companies: RD driven versus Marketing driver.
My belief is that none work as the trades do not attempt to reach the same
goal:
1) RD should not try to define products
2) Marketing should not try to impose the
On Sat, 11 Jun 2005 11:51:02 -0500, tom wrote:
The sequence goes like this:
1) When there is little or no money to be made, you start out with an
implied status as a partner. This means you work long + extra hours for
little pay on the promise that you will be rewarded when/if success comes.
Paul Rubin wrote:
That article makes a lot of bogus claims and is full of hype. LAMP is
a nice way to throw a small site together without much fuss, sort of
like fancy xerox machines are a nice way to print a small-run
publication without much fuss. If you want to do something big, you
Andrew Dalke [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
My question to you is - what is something big? I've not been
on any project for which LAMP can't be used, and nor do I
expect to be. After all, there's only about 100,000 people in
the world who might possibly interested using my software. (Well,
the
flyingfred0 wrote:
A small software team (developers, leads and even the manager when he's
had time) has been using (wx)Python/PostgreSQL for over 2 years and
developed a successful 1.0 release of a client/server product.
A marketing/product manager has brought in additional management and
Will McGugan wrote:
Marketing types need a bandwagon to jump on. Point out that Google is
used by Google, ILM and NASA.
Certainly a true statement - but I've got the sneaky suspicion that the
first google was supposed to be python.
Diez
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
They want a
scalable, enterprise solution (though they don't really know what
that means) and are going crazy throwing around the Java buzzwords
(not to mention XML).
There is a very cheap solution: Ryan Tomayko debunkes all these myths.
You can google it up, astronaut architects
There is
What experiences have those in the Python community had in these kinds
of situations?
Ive had lots of experience updating my resume and
developing software at home. In Python.
Java is a clumsy kludge. And the java environment has gone to hell.
Managers DO NOT listen to engineers.
get your resume in order and start looking . . .
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
flyingfred0 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
A small software team (developers, leads and even the manager when he's
had time) has been using (wx)Python/PostgreSQL for over 2 years and
developed a successful 1.0 release of a client/server product.
A marketing/product
fuzzylollipop [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
get your resume in order and start looking . . .
I *hate* the fact that I agree with this post.
I, for one, am hoping for serious discussion to address the problem.
Thomas Bartkus
--
Kay Schluehr [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Python projects are submarines.
Sometimes submarines disappear without a trace and loss of all hands
aboard.
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
Will McGugan wrote:
Marketing types need a bandwagon to jump on. Point out that Google is
used by Google, ILM and NASA.
Certainly a true statement - but I've got the sneaky suspicion that the
first google was supposed to be python.
Indeed. D'oh.
--
On Friday 10 June 2005 12:08 pm, Harald Massa wrote:
They want a
scalable, enterprise solution (though they don't really know what
that means) and are going crazy throwing around the Java buzzwords
(not to mention XML).
There is a very cheap solution: Ryan Tomayko debunkes all these
On Friday 10 June 2005 03:06 pm, Kay Schluehr wrote:
Python projects are submarines. You have to care not to go up to soon.
Ooh, I like that. I'm going to file that under useful excuses.
Could come in handy! ;-D
Cheers,
Terry
--
Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
Anansi
i think he was actually referering the the architecture astronauts that
Joel Spolskyl was talking about
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
I was completely serious, he is _NOT_ going to win this one. He has
already lost. I have been on both sides of this scenario, the new
guys were brought in and will win since they are the new experts from
out of town. There may be some other _VALID_ business reason that
management has already made
fuzzylollipop wrote:
There are 2 things he can do.
1. Get your resume ready and approach the CEO or whomever and say. Why
is this happening? Since I can guarantee you they have already decided
to port this app to Java.
The CEO is probably indifferent about particular technology issues but
flyingfred0 wrote:
A small software team (developers, leads and even the manager when he's
had time) has been using (wx)Python/PostgreSQL for over 2 years and
developed a successful 1.0 release of a client/server product.
A marketing/product manager has brought in additional management
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