On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 at 11:27, rbowman wrote:
>
> On Fri, 27 Jan 2023 21:35:11 -0800 (PST), Grant Edwards wrote:
>
> > In Unix shells, a return code of 0 is true and non-0 is false.
>
> That carries over to some C functions like strcmp() although it's more
> complex. strcmp() returns the value of s
you have your reasons, and I was tempted to stop there, but... I have to
pick this...
On 1/26/2023 10:09 PM, avi.e.gr...@gmail.com wrote:
You can often borrow
ideas and code from an online search and hopefully cobble "a" solution
together that works well enough. Of course it may suddenly f
On Fri, 27 Jan 2023 21:35:11 -0800 (PST), Grant Edwards wrote:
> In Unix shells, a return code of 0 is true and non-0 is false.
That carries over to some C functions like strcmp() although it's more
complex. strcmp() returns the value of subtracting the nth character of
string b from string a i
On 2023-01-27, Mark Bourne wrote:
> So Python is even flexible enough to be made to deal with insane
> situations where False is 2!
IIRC, in VMS DCL even numbers were false and odd numbers were true.
In Unix shells, a return code of 0 is true and non-0 is false.
Though that's not really the s
On Sat, 28 Jan 2023 at 11:45, Greg Ewing wrote:
>
> On 26/01/23 6:10 am, Chris Angelico wrote:
> > And that's a consequence of a system wherein there is only one concept
> > of "success", but many concepts of "failure". Whoever devised that
> > system was clearly a pessimist :)
>
> Murphy's Law fo
avi.e.gr...@gmail.com wrote:
...
Interestingly, I wonder if anyone has
designed an alternate object type that can be used mostly in place of
Booleans but which imposes changes and restrictions so trying to add a
Boolean to an integer, or vice versa, results in an error. Python is
flexible enough
On 26/01/23 6:10 am, Chris Angelico wrote:
And that's a consequence of a system wherein there is only one concept
of "success", but many concepts of "failure". Whoever devised that
system was clearly a pessimist :)
Murphy's Law for Unix: If something can go wrong, it will go
wrong 255 times out
isinstance(b,int)
True
>>>
That immediately tells you that either
bool is a subclass of int
int is a subclass of bool
bool and int are both subclasses of some other class
In fact the first one is true.
This is not a logical necessity, but the way Python happens to be designe
ino
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2023 9:26 AM
To: python-list@python.org
Subject: Re: RE: bool and int
Wow. That was quite a message and an interesting read. Tempted to go deep
and say what I agree and what I disagree with, but there are two
issues: 1) time 2) I will soon be at a disadvantage
On Fri, 27 Jan 2023 at 06:32, Dino wrote:
>
> On 1/25/2023 5:42 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:
>
> >
> > Try this (or its equivalent) in as many languages as possible:
> >
> > x = (1 > 2)
> > x == 0
> >
> > You'll find that x (which has effectively been set to False, or its
> > equivalent in any langua
Chris Angelico writes:
> On Thu, 26 Jan 2023 at 08:19, Dino wrote:
>>
>> On 1/23/2023 11:22 PM, Dino wrote:
>> > >>> b = True
>> > >>> isinstance(b,bool)
>> > True
>> > >>> isinstance(b,int)
>> > True
>> > >>>
>>
>> ok, I read everything you guys wrote. Everyone's got their reasons
>> obviou
On 2023-01-26 at 12:12:30 -0500,
Dino wrote:
> On 1/25/2023 5:42 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:
>
> >
> > Try this (or its equivalent) in as many languages as possible:
> >
> > x = (1 > 2)
> > x == 0
> >
> > You'll find that x (which has effectively been set to False, or its
> > equivalent in any
On 1/25/2023 5:42 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:
Try this (or its equivalent) in as many languages as possible:
x = (1 > 2)
x == 0
You'll find that x (which has effectively been set to False, or its
equivalent in any language) will be equal to zero in a very large
number of languages. Thus, to an
On Fri, 27 Jan 2023 at 03:31, rbowman wrote:
>
> On Thu, 26 Jan 2023 04:10:30 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote:
>
>
> > BASIC was like that too, although it (at least, the versions I used in
> > my childhood) didn't have "True" and "False", you just got the actual
> > values -1 and 0. They were the oth
Wow. That was quite a message and an interesting read. Tempted to go
deep and say what I agree and what I disagree with, but there are two
issues: 1) time 2) I will soon be at a disadvantage discussing with
people (you or others) who know more than me (which doesn't make them
right necessari
On Thu, 26 Jan 2023 04:10:30 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote:
> BASIC was like that too, although it (at least, the versions I used in
> my childhood) didn't have "True" and "False", you just got the actual
> values -1 and 0. They were the other way around compared to what you're
> saying here though
:52 AM
To: python-list@python.org
Subject: Re: bool and int
I can't help but wonder if there exists some Java forum /mailing list going
on about how horrible Python is.
From: Python-list on
behalf of rbowman
Date: Wednesday, January 25, 2023 at 12:25 PM
To: python-list@python.org
Subjec
On Thu, 26 Jan 2023 at 21:53, Weatherby,Gerard wrote:
>
> I can’t help but wonder if there exists some Java forum /mailing list going
> on about how horrible Python is.
Try https://www.reddit.com/r/ProgrammerHumor/ for plenty of people
whining about how horrible Python is.
But along the way, yo
On 2023-01-26 at 10:52:06 +,
"Weatherby,Gerard" wrote:
> I can’t help but wonder if there exists some Java forum /mailing list
> going on about how horrible Python is.
Not some of them. *All* of them. Here's the summary:
- Dynamic Typing causes defects and makes non-toy software project
I can’t help but wonder if there exists some Java forum /mailing list going on
about how horrible Python is.
From: Python-list on
behalf of rbowman
Date: Wednesday, January 25, 2023 at 12:25 PM
To: python-list@python.org
Subject: Re: bool and int
*** Attention: This is an external email. Use
uage designed to minimize any ability
to make many errors as the program refuses to run until highly polished?
-Original Message-
From: Python-list On
Behalf Of Python
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2023 10:06 PM
To: python-list@python.org
Subject: Re: bool and int
On Wed, Jan 25, 2023 a
On Wed, Jan 25, 2023 at 01:01:24PM +1100, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Wed, 25 Jan 2023 at 12:43, wrote:
> > Python has a different philosophy than some other languages with strong
> > typing. In some of those, you would not be allowed to add or multiply at
> > random but would need to convert parts
-Original Message-
From: Python-list On
Behalf Of Chris Angelico
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2023 5:43 PM
To: python-list@python.org
Subject: Re: bool and int
On Thu, 26 Jan 2023 at 08:19, Dino wrote:
>
> On 1/23/2023 11:22 PM, Dino wrote:
> > >>> b = True
>
ed how this message got this long! Aaargh!
-----Original Message-
From: Python-list On
Behalf Of Dino
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2023 3:33 PM
To: python-list@python.org
Subject: Re: bool and int
On 1/23/2023 11:22 PM, Dino wrote:
> >>> b = True
> >>> isinstance(
On Thu, 26 Jan 2023 at 08:19, Dino wrote:
>
> On 1/23/2023 11:22 PM, Dino wrote:
> > >>> b = True
> > >>> isinstance(b,bool)
> > True
> > >>> isinstance(b,int)
> > True
> > >>>
>
> ok, I read everything you guys wrote. Everyone's got their reasons
> obviously, but allow me to observe that ther
On 1/23/2023 11:22 PM, Dino wrote:
>>> b = True
>>> isinstance(b,bool)
True
>>> isinstance(b,int)
True
>>>
ok, I read everything you guys wrote. Everyone's got their reasons
obviously, but allow me to observe that there's also something called
"principle of least surprise".
In my case,
On Tue, 24 Jan 2023 20:16:31 -0500, Mike Baskin
declaimed the following:
>Will all of you please stop sending me emails
>
Nobody is sending "you" emails deliberately (unless they have a poorly
[to me] set up client that sends to the list AND the person who wrote the
message they replied
On Wed, 25 Jan 2023 06:53:44 -0500, 2QdxY4RzWzUUiLuE wrote:
> They used Java at my last job (as in, the last job I had before I
> retired), and it was absolutely awful, for any number of reasons, the
> gymnastics (on many levels) required to support "primitive types" being
> one of them.
My firs
On Thu, 26 Jan 2023 at 03:19, <2qdxy4rzwzuui...@potatochowder.com> wrote:
> > Strongly disagree. There is PLENTY of practical value in using
> > booleans as numbers. This is nothing to do with counting bytes, and
> > everything to do with how useful it is in practice.
>
> IMO, the difference in rea
On 2023-01-25 at 23:11:37 +1100,
Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Wed, 25 Jan 2023 at 22:55, <2qdxy4rzwzuui...@potatochowder.com> wrote:
> > So, I think what you're trying to say is that you prefer the razor sharp
> > quality of truthiness to the zen of explicit being better than implicit.
>
> Not su
On 1/25/2023 6:53 AM, 2qdxy4rzwzuui...@potatochowder.com wrote:
They used Java at my last job (as in, the last job I had before I
retired), and it was absolutely awful, for any number of reasons, the
gymnastics (on many levels) required to support "primitive types" being
one of them.
In my one
On Wed, 25 Jan 2023 at 22:55, <2qdxy4rzwzuui...@potatochowder.com> wrote:
>
> On 2023-01-25 at 12:14:50 +1100,
> Chris Angelico wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 25 Jan 2023 at 10:32, <2qdxy4rzwzuui...@potatochowder.com> wrote:
>
> > > The usual complaint is that some people write FORTRAN no matter what
> > >
On 2023-01-25 at 12:14:50 +1100,
Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Wed, 25 Jan 2023 at 10:32, <2qdxy4rzwzuui...@potatochowder.com> wrote:
> > The usual complaint is that some people write FORTRAN no matter what
> > language they're actually using. Are you writing Python in C#? ;-)
> But the way I ha
On Wed, 25 Jan 2023 12:14:50 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote:
> So the problem isn't that I'm trying to write Python in C#, but that I'm
> trying to write code that would work on pretty much *any other C-family
> language*, but doesn't work on C#. I could use those techniques in
> plenty of C-derived
On 2023-01-25, Mike Baskin via Python-list wrote:
> Will all of you please stop sending me emails
Oh dear.
You might want to try unsubscribing from the list.
Telling everybody to stop using the mailing list and newsgroup is a bit silly.
--
Grant
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/py
On Wed, 25 Jan 2023 at 12:43, wrote:
> Python has a different philosophy than some other languages with strong
> typing. In some of those, you would not be allowed to add or multiply at
> random but would need to convert parts of your calculation to all be the
> same, such as a 32-bit integer. You
m
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2023 6:31 PM
To: python-list@python.org
Subject: Re: bool and int
On 2023-01-25 at 08:58:06 +1100,
Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Wed, 25 Jan 2023 at 08:22, MRAB wrote:
> > For backwards compatibility, bool was made a subclass of int.
>
> Plus, it&
On Wed, 25 Jan 2023 at 12:19, Mike Baskin via Python-list
wrote:
> Will all of you please stop sending me emails
Hi. We don't have the power to do that.
Because this is a public list, which works by
people adding and removing themselves.
You, or perhaps someone messing with you,
added your email
On Wed, 25 Jan 2023 at 12:20, Mike Baskin via Python-list
wrote:
>
> Will all of you please stop sending me emails
Learn to manage your own mailing list subscription. HINT: Look at the
*ENTIRE* email, not just the bit up the top that makes you angry.
> Sent from my iPhone
Ahh, I see the problem
Will all of you please stop sending me emails
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jan 24, 2023, at 2:59 PM, rbowman wrote:
>
> On Mon, 23 Jan 2023 23:22:00 -0500, Dino wrote:
>
>> $ python Python 3.8.10 (default, Mar 15 2022, 12:22:08)
>> [GCC 9.4.0] on linux Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "lice
be very different, but it
depends on the API. Could be:
if "PreLaunch" in state:
But the way I have to write it in C# is a messed-up version of C:
if ((state & StartState.PreLaunch) > 0) {
because bool and int are fundamentally different. Using the C style results in:
Veloci
On 2023-01-25 at 08:58:06 +1100,
Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Wed, 25 Jan 2023 at 08:22, MRAB wrote:
> > For backwards compatibility, bool was made a subclass of int.
>
> Plus, it's really REALLY handy in quite a lot of situations.
>
> > > C# is pickier, which I guess is a good thing.
> >
>
> N
On Wed, 25 Jan 2023 at 08:22, MRAB wrote:
> For backwards compatibility, bool was made a subclass of int.
Plus, it's really REALLY handy in quite a lot of situations.
> > C# is pickier, which I guess is a good thing.
>
Nope, not a good thing. Actually a highly frustrating thing on those
occasio
On 2023-01-24 20:32, Weatherby,Gerard wrote:
https://peps.python.org/pep-0285/
From: Python-list on behalf of
rbowman
Date: Tuesday, January 24, 2023 at 3:01 PM
To: python-list@python.org
Subject: Re: bool and int
bool is a subtype of integer. I never dug that deep into Python's gut
https://peps.python.org/pep-0285/
From: Python-list on
behalf of rbowman
Date: Tuesday, January 24, 2023 at 3:01 PM
To: python-list@python.org
Subject: Re: bool and int
bool is a subtype of integer. I never dug that deep into Python's guts but
I assume it goes back to boolean bei
atamodel.html#the-standard-type-hierarchy
From: Python-list on
behalf of Dino
Date: Tuesday, January 24, 2023 at 3:04 PM
To: python-list@python.org
Subject: bool and int
*** Attention: This is an external email. Use caution responding, opening
attachments or clicking on links. ***
$ python
P
$ python
Python 3.8.10 (default, Mar 15 2022, 12:22:08)
[GCC 9.4.0] on linux
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> b = True
>>> isinstance(b,bool)
True
>>> isinstance(b,int)
True
>>>
WTF!
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
On Mon, 23 Jan 2023 23:22:00 -0500, Dino wrote:
> $ python Python 3.8.10 (default, Mar 15 2022, 12:22:08)
> [GCC 9.4.0] on linux Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license"
> for more information.
> >>> b = True isinstance(b,bool)
> True
> >>> isinstance(b,int)
> True
> >>>
> >>>
> WTF!
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