Re: python 3's adoption

2010-01-29 Thread Alf P. Steinbach
* Steven D'Aprano: On Fri, 29 Jan 2010 07:10:01 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote: >>> L = ["æ", "ø", "å"] # This is in SORTED ORDER in Norwegian L [...] >>> L.sort( key = locale.strxfrm ) >>> L ['å', 'æ', 'ø'] >>> locale.strcoll( "å", "æ" ) 1 >>> locale.strcoll( "æ", "ø"

Re: python 3's adoption

2010-01-29 Thread Paul Boddie
On 29 Jan, 06:56, Terry Reedy wrote: > On 1/28/2010 6:47 PM, Paul Boddie wrote: > > > What would annoy me if I used Python 3.x would be the apparent lack of > > the __cmp__ method for conveniently defining comparisons between > > instances of my own classes. Having to define all the rich compariso

Re: python 3's adoption

2010-01-29 Thread Duncan Booth
Steven D'Aprano wrote: > If that's too verbose for you, stick this as a helper function in your > application: > > > def CmpToKey(mycmp): > 'Convert a cmp= function into a key= function' > class K(object): > def __init__(self, obj, *args): > self.obj = obj >

Re: python 3's adoption

2010-01-29 Thread Steven D'Aprano
On Fri, 29 Jan 2010 07:10:01 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote: >>>> L = ["æ", "ø", "å"] # This is in SORTED ORDER in Norwegian L [...] >>>> L.sort( key = locale.strxfrm ) >>>> L >['å', 'æ', 'ø'] >>>> locale.strcoll( "å", "æ" ) >1 >>>> locale.strcoll( "æ", "ø" ) >-1

Re: python 3's adoption

2010-01-28 Thread Alf P. Steinbach
* Steve Holden: While I am fully aware that premature optimization, etc., but I cannot resist an appeal to efficiency if it finally kills off this idea that "they took 'cmp()' away" is a bad thing. Passing a cmp= argument to sort provides the interpreter with a function that will be called eac

Re: python 3's adoption

2010-01-28 Thread Terry Reedy
On 1/28/2010 6:47 PM, Paul Boddie wrote: On 27 Jan, 13:26, Xah Lee wrote: So, for practical reasons, i think a “key” parameter is fine. But chopping off “cmp” is damaging. When your data structure is complex, its order is not embedded in some “key”. Taking out “cmp” makes it impossible to sort

Re: python 3's adoption

2010-01-28 Thread Steven D'Aprano
On Thu, 28 Jan 2010 21:26:43 -0500, Roy Smith wrote: > In article <03720b25$0$1309$c3e8...@news.astraweb.com>, > Steven D'Aprano wrote: > >> In any case, while such a idiom works in code, it plays havoc with the >> interactive interpreter: >> >> >>> while 1: >> ..."pass" >> ... >> 'pass' >

Re: python 3's adoption

2010-01-28 Thread alex23
Roy Smith wrote: > I'm inclined to call it a docs bug that these keywords are not in the HTML > index.  Yes? No. The indices don't list the named parameters for any other built- in, so why would they for print()? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: python 3's adoption

2010-01-28 Thread mdj
On Jan 29, 12:21 pm, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > "Comes to their senses"? > > There's nothing you can do with __cmp__ that you can't do better with > rich comparisons, and plenty that rich comparisons can do that __cmp__ is > utterly incapable of dealing with. __cmp__ is crippled since it can only >

Re: python 3's adoption

2010-01-28 Thread Steve Holden
Steven D'Aprano wrote: > On Thu, 28 Jan 2010 17:38:23 -0800, mdj wrote: > >> On Jan 29, 9:47 am, Paul Boddie wrote: >>> On 27 Jan, 13:26, Xah Lee wrote: >>> >>> >>> So, for practical reasons, i think a “key” parameter is fine. But chopping off “cmp” is damaging. When your data structur

Re: python 3's adoption

2010-01-28 Thread Steve Holden
Roy Smith wrote: > In article <03720b25$0$1309$c3e8...@news.astraweb.com>, > Steven D'Aprano wrote: > >> In any case, while such a idiom works in code, it plays havoc with the >> interactive interpreter: >> > while 1: >> ..."pass" >> ... >> 'pass' >> 'pass' >> 'pass' >> 'pass' >> 'pass

Re: python 3's adoption

2010-01-28 Thread Roy Smith
In article , "Alf P. Steinbach" wrote: > * Roy Smith: > > In article , > > Mitchell L Model wrote: > > > >> I use the sep and end keywords all the time. > > > > What are 'sep' and 'end'? I'm looking in > > http://docs.python.org/3.1/genindex-all.html and don't see those mentioned > > at a

Re: python 3's adoption

2010-01-28 Thread Roy Smith
In article <03720b25$0$1309$c3e8...@news.astraweb.com>, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > In any case, while such a idiom works in code, it plays havoc with the > interactive interpreter: > > >>> while 1: > ..."pass" > ... > 'pass' > 'pass' > 'pass' > 'pass' > 'pass' It's not particularly useful

Re: python 3's adoption

2010-01-28 Thread Steven D'Aprano
On Thu, 28 Jan 2010 17:38:23 -0800, mdj wrote: > On Jan 29, 9:47 am, Paul Boddie wrote: >> On 27 Jan, 13:26, Xah Lee wrote: >> >> >> >> > So, for practical reasons, i think a “key” parameter is fine. But >> > chopping off “cmp” is damaging. When your data structure is complex, >> > its order is

Re: python 3's adoption

2010-01-28 Thread mdj
On Jan 29, 9:47 am, Paul Boddie wrote: > On 27 Jan, 13:26, Xah Lee wrote: > > > > > So, for practical reasons, i think a “key” parameter is fine. But > > chopping off “cmp” is damaging. When your data structure is complex, > > its order is not embedded in some “key”. Taking out “cmp” makes it > >

Re: python 3's adoption

2010-01-28 Thread Paul Rubin
Steven D'Aprano writes: > If you were designing your own language from scratch, so that backwards > compatibility wasn't an issue, why would you make print a statement? As another real estate analogy, my apartment has some problems with its plumbing, plus an ugly spot on the kitchen wall that co

Re: python 3's adoption

2010-01-28 Thread Steven D'Aprano
On Wed, 27 Jan 2010 23:50:55 -0800, Jonathan Gardner wrote: > I agree on "assert". I don't like running a program in test mode and > then running it in production mode with different code. I would rather > test what I am going to actually run. "assert" should be a function, and > support for remov

Re: python 3's adoption

2010-01-28 Thread Steven D'Aprano
On Thu, 28 Jan 2010 18:37:56 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote: > * Lie Ryan: >> On 01/28/10 20:12, Alf P. Steinbach wrote: >>> >>> import builtins >>> >>> >>> >>> org_print = print >>> >>> builtins.print = 666 >>> >>> >>> >>> print( "trallala" ) >>> Traceback (most recent call last): >>

Re: python 3's adoption

2010-01-28 Thread Paul Boddie
On 27 Jan, 13:26, Xah Lee wrote: > > So, for practical reasons, i think a “key” parameter is fine. But > chopping off “cmp” is damaging. When your data structure is complex, > its order is not embedded in some “key”. Taking out “cmp” makes it > impossible to sort your data structure. What would a

Re: python 3's adoption

2010-01-28 Thread Steven D'Aprano
On Thu, 28 Jan 2010 13:20:02 -0500, Terry Reedy wrote: > On 1/28/2010 3:37 AM, Paul Rubin wrote: >> Jonathan Gardner writes: >>> If you're going to have statements, you're going to need the null >>> statement. That's "pass". >> >> Why? Expressions are statements, so you could just say "pass" (in

Re: python 3's adoption

2010-01-28 Thread Mitchell L Model
On Jan 28, 2010, at 1:40 PM, Terry Reedy wrote ... On 1/28/2010 11:03 AM, Mitchell L Model wrote: I have been working with Python 3 for over a year. ... I agree completely. Such sweet words to read! Conversion of old code is greatly facilitied by the 2to3 tool that comes with Pyth

Re: python 3's adoption

2010-01-28 Thread Mitchell L Model
On Jan 28, 2010, at 12:00 PM, python-list-requ...@python.org wrote: From: Roy Smith Date: January 28, 2010 11:09:58 AM EST To: python-list@python.org Subject: Re: python 3's adoption In article , Mitchell L Model wrote: I use the sep and end keywords all the time. What are 

Re: python 3's adoption

2010-01-28 Thread Fencer
On 2010-01-28 17:03, Mitchell L Model wrote: I have been working with Python 3 for over a year. I used it in writing my book "Bioinformatics Programming Using Python" (http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596154509). That book sounds very interesting, even though I am more interested in the bioinfor

Re: python 3's adoption

2010-01-28 Thread Terry Reedy
On 1/28/2010 11:03 AM, Mitchell L Model wrote: I have been working with Python 3 for over a year. I used it in writing my book "Bioinformatics Programming Using Python" (http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596154509). I didn't see any point in teaching an incompatible earlier version of a language in

Re: python 3's adoption

2010-01-28 Thread Terry Reedy
On 1/28/2010 3:37 AM, Paul Rubin wrote: Jonathan Gardner writes: If you're going to have statements, you're going to need the null statement. That's "pass". Why? Expressions are statements, so you could just say "pass" (in quotes, denoting a string literal), or 0, or None, os anything else l

Re: python 3's adoption

2010-01-28 Thread Alf P. Steinbach
* Lie Ryan: On 01/28/10 20:12, Alf P. Steinbach wrote: >>> import builtins >>> >>> org_print = print >>> builtins.print = 666 >>> >>> print( "trallala" ) Traceback (most recent call last): File "", line 1, in TypeError: 'int' object is not callable >>> org_print( "but is t

Re: python 3's adoption

2010-01-28 Thread Lie Ryan
On 01/28/10 20:12, Alf P. Steinbach wrote: > * Steven D'Aprano: >> On Wed, 27 Jan 2010 18:29:25 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:> >> Instead of: >> >> print >>fileObj, x, y, z >> >> you use regular function syntax with a meaningful keyword: >> >> print(x, y, z, file=fileObj) >> >> If you want suppres

Re: python 3's adoption

2010-01-28 Thread Lie Ryan
On 01/28/10 19:37, Paul Rubin wrote: > Jonathan Gardner writes: >> If you're going to have statements, you're going to need the null >> statement. That's "pass". > > Why? Expressions are statements, so you could just say "pass" (in > quotes, denoting a string literal), or 0, or None, os anything

Re: python 3's adoption

2010-01-28 Thread Alf P. Steinbach
* Roy Smith: In article , Mitchell L Model wrote: I use the sep and end keywords all the time. What are 'sep' and 'end'? I'm looking in http://docs.python.org/3.1/genindex-all.html and don't see those mentioned at all. Am I just looking in the wrong place? >>> print( print.__doc__ )

Re: python 3's adoption

2010-01-28 Thread Roy Smith
In article , Mitchell L Model wrote: > I use the sep and end keywords all the time. What are 'sep' and 'end'? I'm looking in http://docs.python.org/3.1/genindex-all.html and don't see those mentioned at all. Am I just looking in the wrong place? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/p

Re: python 3's adoption

2010-01-28 Thread Mitchell L Model
I have been working with Python 3 for over a year. I used it in writing my book "Bioinformatics Programming Using Python" (http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596154509 ). I didn't see any point in teaching an incompatible earlier version of a language in transition. In preparing the book and its e

Re: python 3's adoption

2010-01-28 Thread Gib Bogle
Luis M. González wrote: Please don't post more noise and ad hominem attacks to the group, Steve. "Ad hominem"? Please, operor non utor lingua non notus per vulgaris populus. Gratias ago vos... "ad hominem" is "lingua notus per vulgaris populus", the vulgar pop of these parts, anyway. -- ht

Re: python 3's adoption

2010-01-28 Thread Luis M . González
> Please don't post more noise and ad hominem attacks to the group, Steve. "Ad hominem"? Please, operor non utor lingua non notus per vulgaris populus. Gratias ago vos... -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: python 3's adoption

2010-01-28 Thread Alf P. Steinbach
* Steven D'Aprano: On Wed, 27 Jan 2010 18:29:25 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote: The main problem with the incompatibility is for porting code, not for writing code from scratch. Correct. It's a trivial problem, but still a problem. It's also a problem wrt. learning the language. This makes

Re: python 3's adoption

2010-01-28 Thread Paul Rubin
Jonathan Gardner writes: > If you're going to have statements, you're going to need the null > statement. That's "pass". Why? Expressions are statements, so you could just say "pass" (in quotes, denoting a string literal), or 0, or None, os anything else like that, instead of having a special st

Re: python 3's adoption

2010-01-27 Thread Jonathan Gardner
On Jan 27, 4:25 pm, Paul Rubin wrote: > What about assert and pass? > If you're going to have statements, you're going to need the null statement. That's "pass". It could be renamed "null_statement" but "pass" is a better description. "None" and "pass" are cousins of sorts, since "None" is the n

Re: python 3's adoption

2010-01-27 Thread Gib Bogle
Steven D'Aprano wrote: On Wed, 27 Jan 2010 02:28:00 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote: * Print is now a function. Great, much improvement. Actually not, IMHO. All it does is is to provide incompatibility. They forgot Ronald Reagan's old maxim: if it don't need fixin', don't fix it. The aphor

Re: python 3's adoption

2010-01-27 Thread David Cournapeau
On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 9:25 AM, Paul Rubin wrote: > I don't mind that 3.x is breaking stuff for the sake of improving > things.  That's the whole idea of 3.x, after all.  What bugs me is that > the improvements are mostly quite superficial, and the breakage seems > often gratuitous.  I'd rather

Re: python 3's adoption

2010-01-27 Thread Steven D'Aprano
On Wed, 27 Jan 2010 16:44:18 -0800, Carl Banks wrote: >> You're referring to the O(N**2) bit, right? I am sure he knew it was O >> (N*log(N)), which is still worse than O(N) for key. >> >> If he didn't, well, Python has some fundamental flaws in its basic sort >> algorithm. > > Quicksort is O(N**

Re: python 3's adoption

2010-01-27 Thread Steven D'Aprano
On Wed, 27 Jan 2010 16:16:59 -0800, Jonathan Gardner wrote: > On Jan 27, 3:54 pm, Paul Rubin wrote: >> Steven D'Aprano writes: >> > always much better written with key rather than cmp: key adds an O(N) >> > overheard to the sorting, while cmp makes sorting O(N**2). >> >> Whaa ..

Re: python 3's adoption

2010-01-27 Thread Steven D'Aprano
On Wed, 27 Jan 2010 00:36:52 -0800, Paul Rubin wrote: > Steven D'Aprano writes: >> Without becoming a purely functional language, you won't get rid of all >> statements. > > Why not? GCC lets you use any statement in an expression: I stand corrected. Whether it is a good idea or not is another

Re: python 3's adoption

2010-01-27 Thread Steven D'Aprano
On Wed, 27 Jan 2010 18:29:25 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote: > The main problem with the incompatibility is for porting code, not for > writing code from scratch. Correct. It's a trivial problem, but still a problem. > It's also a problem wrt. learning the language. This makes no sense. Why is i

Re: python 3's adoption

2010-01-27 Thread Carl Banks
On Jan 27, 4:16 pm, Jonathan Gardner wrote: > On Jan 27, 3:54 pm, Paul Rubin wrote: > > > Steven D'Aprano writes: > > > always much better written with key rather than cmp: key adds an O(N) > > > overheard to the sorting, while cmp makes sorting O(N**2). > > > Whaa ..  No I don'

Re: python 3's adoption

2010-01-27 Thread Paul Rubin
Jonathan Gardner writes: > You're referring to the O(N**2) bit, right? I am sure he knew it was O > (N*log(N)), which is still worse than O(N) for key. It's O(n log n) for both key and cmp. key is usually more convenient and usually gives a constant-factor speedup (DSU pattern), but it uses more

Re: python 3's adoption

2010-01-27 Thread Paul Rubin
Jonathan Gardner writes: >> What about assert, import, and pass? >... > For instance, how can you call an "if" function ... > If "yield", "break", and "continue" were functions, ... > "import" ... does something very special. It assigns > to values in the namespace of the code from which it was ca

Re: python 3's adoption

2010-01-27 Thread Jonathan Gardner
On Jan 27, 3:54 pm, Paul Rubin wrote: > Steven D'Aprano writes: > > always much better written with key rather than cmp: key adds an O(N) > > overheard to the sorting, while cmp makes sorting O(N**2). > > Whaa ..  No I don't think so. You're referring to the O(N**2) bit, right?

Re: python 3's adoption

2010-01-27 Thread Jonathan Gardner
On Jan 27, 12:36 am, Paul Rubin wrote: > Steven D'Aprano writes: > > Without becoming a purely functional language, you won't get rid of all > > statements. > > Why not?  GCC lets you use any statement in an expression: > >     #include > >     main() >     { >       int i, x, p=0; >       x = (

Re: python 3's adoption

2010-01-27 Thread Paul Rubin
Steven D'Aprano writes: > always much better written with key rather than cmp: key adds an O(N) > overheard to the sorting, while cmp makes sorting O(N**2). Whaa .. No I don't think so. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: python 3's adoption

2010-01-27 Thread Jonathan Gardner
On Jan 26, 10:12 pm, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > > I did too, when I first heard cmp was to be dumped. But I changed my mind > and now agree with the decision to drop cmp. Custom sorts are nearly > always much better written with key rather than cmp: key adds an O(N) > overheard to the sorting, while

Re: python 3's adoption

2010-01-27 Thread Jonathan Gardner
On Jan 27, 9:38 am, Luis M. González wrote: > > Please don't post more noise and ad hominem attacks to the group, Steve. > > "Ad hominem"? > Please, operor non utor lingua non notus per vulgaris populus. > Gratias ago vos... My rough, machine-assisted translation: "Don't try to use language that

Re: python 3's adoption

2010-01-27 Thread John Bokma
Xah Lee writes: > Someone is badmouthing me, and it has been doing so over the years. I > feel obliged to post a off topic relpy. See: > > • DreamHost.com and A Incidence of Harassment > http://xahlee.org/Periodic_dosage_dir/t2/harassment.html Dreamhost is not the only ISP that has agreed with

Re: python 3's adoption

2010-01-27 Thread Alf P. Steinbach
* Adam Tauno Williams: On Wed, 2010-01-27 at 18:52 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote: * Steve Holden: Alf P. Steinbach wrote: [...] The main problem with the incompatibility is for porting code, not for writing code from scratch. It's also a problem wrt. learning the language. And I see no good re

Re: python 3's adoption

2010-01-27 Thread Adam Tauno Williams
On Wed, 2010-01-27 at 18:52 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote: > * Steve Holden: > > Alf P. Steinbach wrote: > > [...] > >> The main problem with the incompatibility is for porting code, not for > >> writing code from scratch. It's also a problem wrt. learning the > >> language. And I see no good reaso

Re: python 3's adoption

2010-01-27 Thread Grant Edwards
On 2010-01-27, Alf P. Steinbach wrote: > * Steve Holden: >> Alf P. Steinbach wrote: >> [...] >>> The main problem with the incompatibility is for porting code, not for >>> writing code from scratch. It's also a problem wrt. learning the >>> language. And I see no good reason for it: print can't re

Re: python 3's adoption

2010-01-27 Thread Alf P. Steinbach
* Steve Holden: Alf P. Steinbach wrote: [...] The main problem with the incompatibility is for porting code, not for writing code from scratch. It's also a problem wrt. learning the language. And I see no good reason for it: print can't really do more, or less, or more conveniently (rather, one

Re: python 3's adoption

2010-01-27 Thread Steve Holden
Alf P. Steinbach wrote: [...] > The main problem with the incompatibility is for porting code, not for > writing code from scratch. It's also a problem wrt. learning the > language. And I see no good reason for it: print can't really do more, > or less, or more conveniently (rather, one has to writ

Re: python 3's adoption

2010-01-27 Thread Alf P. Steinbach
* Daniel Fetchinson: * Print is now a function. Great, much improvement. Actually not, IMHO. All it does is is to provide incompatibility. What incompatibility are you exactly talking about? Python 2.6.2 (r262:71600, Aug 21 2009, 12:23:57) [GCC 4.4.1 20090818 (Red Hat 4.4.1-6)] on linux2 T

Re: python 3's adoption

2010-01-27 Thread Daniel Fetchinson
>>> * Print is now a function. Great, much improvement. > Actually not, IMHO. All it does is is to provide incompatibility. What incompatibility are you exactly talking about? Python 2.6.2 (r262:71600, Aug 21 2009, 12:23:57) [GCC 4.4.1 20090818 (Red Hat 4.4.1-6)

Re: python 3's adoption

2010-01-27 Thread Grant Edwards
On 2010-01-27, Alf P. Steinbach wrote: > I'm responding to the original message by Xah Lee, which is > not carried by my Usenet provider. A Usenet provider that doesn't carry messages from Xah Lee. So... many... jokes. -- Grant -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: python 3's adoption

2010-01-27 Thread Stefan Behnel
Xah Lee, 27.01.2010 00:47: > Any comment on this? No, sorry. Not worth bothering. Stefan -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: python 3's adoption

2010-01-27 Thread Alf P. Steinbach
* Daniel Fetchinson: * Print is now a function. Great, much improvement. Actually not, IMHO. All it does is is to provide incompatibility. What incompatibility are you exactly talking about? Python 2.6.2 (r262:71600, Aug 21 2009, 12:23:57) [GCC 4.4.1 20090818 (Red Hat 4.4.1-6)] on linux2

Re: python 3's adoption

2010-01-27 Thread Daniel Fetchinson
> * Print is now a function. Great, much improvement. >>> Actually not, IMHO. All it does is is to provide incompatibility. >> >> >> What incompatibility are you exactly talking about? >> >> Python 2.6.2 (r262:71600, Aug 21 2009, 12:23:57) >> [GCC 4.4.1 20090818 (Red Hat 4.4.1-6)] on linux2

Re: python 3's adoption

2010-01-27 Thread Alf P. Steinbach
* Daniel Fetchinson: * Print is now a function. Great, much improvement. Actually not, IMHO. All it does is is to provide incompatibility. What incompatibility are you exactly talking about? Python 2.6.2 (r262:71600, Aug 21 2009, 12:23:57) [GCC 4.4.1 20090818 (Red Hat 4.4.1-6)] on linux2

Re: python 3's adoption

2010-01-27 Thread Xah Lee
On Jan 26, 3:47 pm, Xah Lee wrote: > * Many functions that return lists now returns “Views” or > “Iterators” Instead. A fucking fuck all fucked up shit. A extraneous > “oop engineering” complication. (See: Lambda in Python 3000) See also: “Iterators: Signs of Weakness in Object-Oriented Lan

Re: python 3's adoption

2010-01-27 Thread Xah Lee
Someone is badmouthing me, and it has been doing so over the years. I feel obliged to post a off topic relpy. See: • DreamHost.com and A Incidence of Harassment http://xahlee.org/Periodic_dosage_dir/t2/harassment.html • Why Can't You Be Normal? http://xahlee.org/Netiquette_dir/why_cant_you_be

Re: python 3's adoption

2010-01-27 Thread Steve Holden
Paul Rubin wrote: > Steven D'Aprano writes: >> Without becoming a purely functional language, you won't get rid of all >> statements. > > Why not? GCC lets you use any statement in an expression: > > #include > > main() > { > int i, x, p=0; > x = ({ for (i=1; i<=10;

Re: python 3's adoption

2010-01-27 Thread Daniel Fetchinson
>>> * Print is now a function. Great, much improvement. > > Actually not, IMHO. All it does is is to provide incompatibility. What incompatibility are you exactly talking about? Python 2.6.2 (r262:71600, Aug 21 2009, 12:23:57) [GCC 4.4.1 20090818 (Red Hat 4.4.1-6)] on linux2 Type "help", "co

Re: python 3's adoption

2010-01-27 Thread Paul Rubin
Steven D'Aprano writes: > Without becoming a purely functional language, you won't get rid of all > statements. Why not? GCC lets you use any statement in an expression: #include main() { int i, x, p=0; x = ({ for (i=1; i<=10; i++) p += i; p;}); printf ("x=%d\n

Re: python 3's adoption

2010-01-27 Thread Steven D'Aprano
On Tue, 26 Jan 2010 23:37:00 -0800, Paul Rubin wrote: > Steven D'Aprano writes: >> Sorry, I meant consistent with the rest of Python, which mostly uses >> functions/methods and only rarely statements (e.g. del and import). > > yield, assert, if/else, return, etc. If we're after that kind of > c

Re: python 3's adoption

2010-01-26 Thread Paul Rubin
Steven D'Aprano writes: > Sorry, I meant consistent with the rest of Python, which mostly uses > functions/methods and only rarely statements (e.g. del and import). yield, assert, if/else, return, etc. If we're after that kind of consistency, why not get rid of all those statements too? They h

Re: python 3's adoption

2010-01-26 Thread Stephen Hansen
On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 10:23 PM, Paul Rubin wrote: > Steven D'Aprano writes: > > print as a function is more consistent and more convenient than print as > > a statement. > > Convenience is subjective, but the 3.x 'print' behavior is definitely > inconsistent (i.e. different from 2.x). This is

Re: python 3's adoption

2010-01-26 Thread Steven D'Aprano
On Tue, 26 Jan 2010 22:23:11 -0800, Paul Rubin wrote: > Steven D'Aprano writes: >> print as a function is more consistent and more convenient than print >> as a statement. > > Convenience is subjective, but the 3.x 'print' behavior is definitely > inconsistent (i.e. different from 2.x). Sorry

Re: python 3's adoption

2010-01-26 Thread Paul Rubin
Steven D'Aprano writes: > print as a function is more consistent and more convenient than print as > a statement. Convenience is subjective, but the 3.x 'print' behavior is definitely inconsistent (i.e. different from 2.x). The change makes a lot of my code silently produce wrong results, too.

Re: python 3's adoption

2010-01-26 Thread Terry Reedy
On 1/26/2010 6:47 PM, Xah Lee wrote: Some thoughts about Python 3 Adoption. Xah Lee, 2010-01-26 Some notes of Wikipedia readings related to Python. Unladen Swallow, a new project from Google. It is a new python compiler with the goal of 5 times faster than the de facto standand implementation

Re: python 3's adoption

2010-01-26 Thread John Bokma
"Alf P. Steinbach" writes: > * John Bokma: >> "Alf P. Steinbach" writes: >> >>> Please don't post more noise and ad hominem attacks to the group, >>> Steve. >> >> Funny that you talk about noise while replying yourself to noise. Xah >> Lee is just a pathetic spammer. He's not going to reply in t

Re: python 3's adoption

2010-01-26 Thread Alf P. Steinbach
* John Bokma: "Alf P. Steinbach" writes: Please don't post more noise and ad hominem attacks to the group, Steve. Funny that you talk about noise while replying yourself to noise. Xah Lee is just a pathetic spammer. He's not going to reply in this thread. He just shits out his stuff in as ma

Re: python 3's adoption

2010-01-26 Thread John Bokma
"Alf P. Steinbach" writes: > Please don't post more noise and ad hominem attacks to the group, > Steve. Funny that you talk about noise while replying yourself to noise. Xah Lee is just a pathetic spammer. He's not going to reply in this thread. He just shits out his stuff in as many groups as p

Re: python 3's adoption

2010-01-26 Thread Alf P. Steinbach
* Steve Holden: [Off-list] alex23 wrote: "Alf P. Steinbach" wrote: Actually not, IMHO. All it does is is to provide incompatibility. They forgot Ronald Reagan's old maxim: if it don't need fixin', don't fix it. [...] Probably there must have been some rationale, but to put it bluntly removin

Re: python 3's adoption

2010-01-26 Thread Alf P. Steinbach
* alex23: "Alf P. Steinbach" wrote: Actually not, IMHO. All it does is is to provide incompatibility. They forgot Ronald Reagan's old maxim: if it don't need fixin', don't fix it. [...] Probably there must have been some rationale, but to put it bluntly removing the comparator is more like mo

Re: python 3's adoption

2010-01-26 Thread Steve Holden
[Off-list] alex23 wrote: > "Alf P. Steinbach" wrote: >> Actually not, IMHO. All it does is is to provide incompatibility. They forgot >> Ronald Reagan's old maxim: if it don't need fixin', don't fix it. > [...] >> Probably there must have been some rationale, but to put it bluntly removing >> the

Re: python 3's adoption

2010-01-26 Thread MRAB
Alf P. Steinbach wrote: I'm responding to the original message by Xah Lee, which is not carried by my Usenet provider. * Alan Harris-Reid: Xah Lee wrote: Some thoughts about Python 3 Adoption. Xah Lee, 2010-01-26 Some notes of Wikipedia readings related to Python. Unladen Swallow, a new pr

Re: python 3's adoption

2010-01-26 Thread alex23
"Alf P. Steinbach" wrote: > Actually not, IMHO. All it does is is to provide incompatibility. They forgot > Ronald Reagan's old maxim: if it don't need fixin', don't fix it. [...] > Probably there must have been some rationale, but to put it bluntly removing > the > comparator is more like moroni

Re: python 3's adoption

2010-01-26 Thread Alf P. Steinbach
I'm responding to the original message by Xah Lee, which is not carried by my Usenet provider. * Alan Harris-Reid: Xah Lee wrote: Some thoughts about Python 3 Adoption. Xah Lee, 2010-01-26 Some notes of Wikipedia readings related to Python. Unladen Swallow, a new project from Google. It is

Re: python 3's adoption

2010-01-26 Thread Alan Harris-Reid
Xah Lee wrote: Some thoughts about Python 3 Adoption. Xah Lee, 2010-01-26 Some notes of Wikipedia readings related to Python. Unladen Swallow, a new project from Google. It is a new python compiler with the goal of 5 times faster than the de facto standand implementation CPython. Also note Sta

python 3's adoption

2010-01-26 Thread Xah Lee
Some thoughts about Python 3 Adoption. Xah Lee, 2010-01-26 Some notes of Wikipedia readings related to Python. Unladen Swallow, a new project from Google. It is a new python compiler with the goal of 5 times faster than the de facto standand implementation CPython. Also note Stackless Python, wh