On 14/03/2014 00:36, Tim Chase wrote:
On 2014-03-14 00:25, Chris Withers wrote:
I've been pleasantly surprised by the succinct, well reasoned and
respectful replies from each of the communities!
As one who doesn't lurk on the other lists, is there a nice executive
summary of their responses?
On 2014-03-14 00:25, Chris Withers wrote:
> I've been pleasantly surprised by the succinct, well reasoned and
> respectful replies from each of the communities!
As one who doesn't lurk on the other lists, is there a nice executive
summary of their responses?
-tkc
--
https://mail.python.org/m
On 11/03/2014 19:41, Terry Reedy wrote:
I suspect I'll just end up cross-posting to the various mailing lists,
Bad idea. Post separately if you must.
> which I hope won't cause too much offence or kick off any flame wars.
It would do both.
Ye of little faith :-P
I've been pleasantly surp
Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2014-03-11, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
>> Sturla Molden gmail.com> writes:
>>>
>>> Chris Withers simplistix.co.uk> wrote:
>>> > Hi All,
>>> >
>>> > I see python now has a plethora of async frameworks and I need to try
>>> > and pick one to use from:
>>> >
>>> > - asyncio
On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 5:38 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 12, 2014 at 10:18 AM, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
>> Chris Angelico :
>>
>>> What corner cases are there with threads that you don't have with
>>> anything else?
>>
>> There are numerous. Here's one example: deadlocks due to two threa
On Wed, Mar 12, 2014 at 10:18 AM, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> Chris Angelico :
>
>> What corner cases are there with threads that you don't have with
>> anything else?
>
> There are numerous. Here's one example: deadlocks due to two threads
> taking locks in a different order. The problem crops up nat
Chris Angelico :
> Yep. Now how is that not a problem when you use some other model, like
> an event loop? The standard methods of avoiding deadlocks (like
> acquiring locks in strict order) work exactly the same for all models,
> and are just as necessary.
I was simply saying that if you can wor
Chris Angelico :
> What corner cases are there with threads that you don't have with
> anything else?
There are numerous. Here's one example: deadlocks due to two threads
taking locks in a different order. The problem crops up naturally with
two intercommunicating classes. It can sometimes be ver
On Wed, Mar 12, 2014 at 9:28 AM, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> If you can't write your own event loop, you probably can't be trusted
> with any multithreaded code, which has much more baffling corner cases.
I'm not sure about that. Threads are generally easier to handle,
because each one just does some
Antoine Pitrou :
> This is the usual assumption that high-level libraries are made of
> useless cruft piled up by careless programmers. But there are actual
> reasons why these frameworks have a significant amount of code, and
> people who decide to ignore those reasons are simply bound to
> reimp
Gregory Ewing :
> It's not "epoll function calls" that the coroutine style is intended
> to replace, it's complex systems of chained callbacks. They're
> supposed to make that kind of logic *easier* to follow. If you haven't
> had that experience, it may be because you've only dealt with simple
>
Sturla Molden wrote:
Another thing is that co-routines and "yield from" statements just makes it
hard to follow the logic of the program. I still have to convince myself
that a library for transforming epoll function calls into co-routines is
actually useful.
It's not "epoll function calls" tha
Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> This is the usual assumption that high-level libraries are made of useless
> cruft piled up by careless programmers.
It often is the case, particularly in network programming.
But in this case the programmer is Guido, so it doesn't apply. :)
> What irks me with your r
On 3/11/2014 3:53 AM, Chris Withers wrote:
On 10/03/2014 21:57, Terry Reedy wrote:
I'd like to be able to serve the rest of the web api using a pyramid
wsgi app if possible, and I'd like to be able to write the things that
process requests in and validation out in a synchronous fashion, most
lik
On Wed, Mar 12, 2014 at 5:43 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> This is the usual assumption that high-level libraries are made of useless
> cruft piled up by careless programmers. But there are actual reasons
> why these frameworks have a significant amount of code, and people who
> decide to ignore tho
Sturla Molden gmail.com> writes:
>
> Antoine Pitrou pitrou.net> wrote:
>
> > Yes, why use a library when you can rewrite it all yourself?
>
> This assumes something equivalent to the library will have to be written.
> But if it can be replaced with something very minimalistic it is just
> bloa
Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> Yes, why use a library when you can rewrite it all yourself?
This assumes something equivalent to the library will have to be written.
But if it can be replaced with something very minimalistic it is just
bloat. I would also like to respond that the select module and pywi
On Wed, Mar 12, 2014 at 3:01 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> Yes, why use a library when you can rewrite it all yourself?
> Actually, you should probably issue system calls to the kernel directly,
> the libc is overrated (as is portability, I suppose).
It's a trade-off, of course. I am fluent in over
Hi Grant
On Tuesday, 11 March 2014 16:52:18 UTC, Grant Edwards wrote:
[...]
>
> And don't bother with device drivers for the network adapters either.
> Just map their PCI regions in to user-space and twiddle the reigisters
> directly! ;)
>
> [I do that when testing PCI boards with C code, and
On 2014-03-11, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> Sturla Molden gmail.com> writes:
>>
>> Chris Withers simplistix.co.uk> wrote:
>> > Hi All,
>> >
>> > I see python now has a plethora of async frameworks and I need to try
>> > and pick one to use from:
>> >
>> > - asyncio/tulip
>> > - tornado
>> > - twi
On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 11:17 AM, Sturla Molden wrote:
> Chris Withers wrote:
> > Hi All,
> >
> > I see python now has a plethora of async frameworks and I need to try
> > and pick one to use from:
> >
> > - asyncio/tulip
> > - tornado
> > - twisted
>
> Looking at Tornado's examples on the web I
Sturla Molden gmail.com> writes:
>
> Chris Withers simplistix.co.uk> wrote:
> > Hi All,
> >
> > I see python now has a plethora of async frameworks and I need to try
> > and pick one to use from:
> >
> > - asyncio/tulip
> > - tornado
> > - twisted
>
> I'd go for using iocp, epoll and kqueue/
Chris Withers simplistix.co.uk> writes:
>
> The protocols are all financial (do we really not have a pure-python FIX
> library?!) but none are likely to have existing python implementations.
If you are mostly writing protocol implementations (aka parsers and
serializers), then you should consid
On 11 March 2014 11:54, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> Ian Kelly :
>
>> eventlet has 115k downloads from PyPI over the last month. gevent has
>> 143k. Twisted has 147k. Tornado has 173k.
>>
>> I'd say that a lot of Python users are already doing non-blocking
>> network I/O, in one form or another.
>
> Th
Ian Kelly :
> eventlet has 115k downloads from PyPI over the last month. gevent has
> 143k. Twisted has 147k. Tornado has 173k.
>
> I'd say that a lot of Python users are already doing non-blocking
> network I/O, in one form or another.
There aren't so many network developers in the world. That m
On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 4:58 AM, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> Sturla Molden :
>
>> I'd go for using iocp, epoll and kqueue/kevent directly. Why bother to
>> learn a framework? You will find epoll and kqueue/kevent in the select
>> module and iocp in pywin32.
>
> You beat me to it.
>
> However, I'm hopi
Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> Now, I've taken a brief look at the new asyncio and it looks as if it
> has everything one would hope for (and then some). You'd still need to
> supply the protocol implementations yourself.
Tulip (the new async module) is nice. But I am a bit confused as to how it
combin
Sturla Molden :
> I'd go for using iocp, epoll and kqueue/kevent directly. Why bother to
> learn a framework? You will find epoll and kqueue/kevent in the select
> module and iocp in pywin32.
You beat me to it.
However, I'm hoping asyncio will steer the Python faithful away from
blocking threads
Sturla Molden :
> Looking at Tornado's examples on the web I find this:
>
> [...]
>
> (1) This was written by some Java guys.
I have written several Python async "frameworks" starting from
select.epoll(). It's only a handful of lines of code (plus an AVL tree
implementation for timers). Then, I'
Chris Withers wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I see python now has a plethora of async frameworks and I need to try
> and pick one to use from:
>
> - asyncio/tulip
> - tornado
> - twisted
I'd go for using iocp, epoll and kqueue/kevent directly. Why bother to
learn a framework? You will find epoll and kqu
Chris Withers wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I see python now has a plethora of async frameworks and I need to try
> and pick one to use from:
>
> - asyncio/tulip
> - tornado
> - twisted
Looking at Tornado's examples on the web I find this:
tornado.ioloop.IOLoop.instance().start()
This single line
On 10/03/2014 21:57, Terry Reedy wrote:
I'd like to be able to serve the rest of the web api using a pyramid
wsgi app if possible, and I'd like to be able to write the things that
process requests in and validation out in a synchronous fashion, most
likely spinning off a thread for each one.
If
On 3/10/2014 4:38 PM, Chris Withers wrote:
Hi All,
I see python now has a plethora of async frameworks and I need to try
and pick one to use from:
- asyncio/tulip
- tornado
- twisted
From my side, I'm looking to experimentally build a network testing
tool that will need to speak a fair few ne
Hi All,
I see python now has a plethora of async frameworks and I need to try
and pick one to use from:
- asyncio/tulip
- tornado
- twisted
From my side, I'm looking to experimentally build a network testing
tool that will need to speak a fair few network protocols, both classic
tcp and mul
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