Raymond Hettinger pyt...@rcn.com wrote in
news:e35271b9-7623-4845-bcb9-d8c33971f...@w24g2000prd.googlegroups.c
om:
If anyone here is interested, here is a proposal I posted on the
python-ideas list.
The idea is to make numbering formatting a little easier with the
new format() builtin
in
On Mon, 16 Mar 2009 02:36:43 -, MRAB goo...@mrabarnett.plus.com
wrote:
The field name can be an integer or an identifier, so the locale could
be too, provided that you know where to look it up!
financial = Locale(group_sep=,, grouping=[3])
print(my number is
Rhodri James wrote:
On Mon, 16 Mar 2009 02:36:43 -, MRAB goo...@mrabarnett.plus.com
wrote:
The field name can be an integer or an identifier, so the locale could
be too, provided that you know where to look it up!
financial = Locale(group_sep=,, grouping=[3])
print(my number is
On Mon, 16 Mar 2009 23:04:58 -, MRAB goo...@mrabarnett.plus.com
wrote:
It should probably(?) be:
financial = Locale(group_sep=,, grouping=[3])
print(my number is {0:10n:fin}.format(1234567, fin=financial))
The format 10n says whether to use separators or a decimal point; the
Rhodri James wrote:
On Mon, 16 Mar 2009 23:04:58 -, MRAB goo...@mrabarnett.plus.com
wrote:
It should probably(?) be:
financial = Locale(group_sep=,, grouping=[3])
print(my number is {0:10n:fin}.format(1234567, fin=financial))
The format 10n says whether to use separators or a
On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 01:47:32 -, MRAB goo...@mrabarnett.plus.com
wrote:
I'm not against putting a comma in the format to indicate that grouping
should be used just as a dot indicates that a decimal point should be
used. The locale would say what characters would be used for them.
I would
Rhodri James wrote:
On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 01:47:32 -, MRAB goo...@mrabarnett.plus.com
wrote:
I'm not against putting a comma in the format to indicate that grouping
should be used just as a dot indicates that a decimal point should be
used. The locale would say what characters would be used
On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 02:41:23 -, MRAB goo...@mrabarnett.plus.com
wrote:
Rhodri James wrote:
On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 01:47:32 -, MRAB goo...@mrabarnett.plus.com
wrote:
I'm not against putting a comma in the format to indicate that grouping
should be used just as a dot indicates that a
Tim Rowe digil.com wrote:
8 -
. If Finance users and non-professional
programmers find the locale approach to be frustrating, arcane and
non-obvious then by all means propose a way of making it simpler and
clearer,
Paul Rubin http://phr...@nospam.invalid wrote:
Paul Rubin http://phr...@nospam.invalid writes:
'%.3K' % 1234567 = 1.235K # K = 1000
'%.:3Ki' % 1234567 = 1.206K # K = 1024
I meant 1.235M and 1.177M, of course.
I went tilt like a slot machine long before I noticed...
:-)
-
Raymond Hettinger wrote:
No doubt that you're skeptical of anything you didn't
already know ;-) I'm a CPA, was a 15 year division controller
for a Fortune 500 company, and an auditor for an international
accounting firm. Believe me when I say it is the norm in finance.
Besides, it seems
On Sat, 14 Mar 2009 08:20:21 -, Hendrik van Rooyen
m...@microcorp.co.za wrote:
Tim Rowe digil.com wrote:
8 -
. If Finance users and non-professional
programmers find the locale approach to be frustrating,
Rhodri James wrote:
[snip]
Frankly, I'd much rather fix the locale system and extend
the format syntax to override the default locale. Perhaps
something like
financial = Locale(group_sep=,, grouping=[3])
print(my number is {0:10n:financial}.format(1234567))
It's hard to think of a way of
2009/3/14 Hendrik van Rooyen m...@microcorp.co.za:
No account seems to be taken of the fact that the locale approach
is a global one that forces uniformity on everything done on a PC
or by a user.
Not so. Under .NET, for instance, the global settings will give you a
default CultureInfo class,
On Sun, 15 Mar 2009 19:00:43 -, MRAB goo...@mrabarnett.plus.com
wrote:
Rhodri James wrote:
[snip]
Frankly, I'd much rather fix the locale system and extend
the format syntax to override the default locale. Perhaps
something like
financial = Locale(group_sep=,, grouping=[3])
Rhodri James wrote:
On Sun, 15 Mar 2009 19:00:43 -, MRAB goo...@mrabarnett.plus.com
wrote:
Rhodri James wrote:
[snip]
Frankly, I'd much rather fix the locale system and extend
the format syntax to override the default locale. Perhaps
something like
financial = Locale(group_sep=,,
[Lie Ryan]
My proposition is: make the format specifier a simpler API to locale
aware
You do know that we already have one, right?
That's what the existing n specifier does.
Raymond
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
John Nagle na...@animats.com wrote:
Yes. In COBOL, one writes
PICTURE $999,999,999.99
which is is way ahead of most of the later approaches.
That was fixed width. For zero suppression:
PIC ,$$$,$99.99
This will format 1000 as $1,000.00
For fixed width zero suppression:
PIC
Hendrik van Rooyen wrote:
Ulrich Eckhardt eck...aser.com wrote:
IOW, why not explicitly say what you want using keyword arguments with
defaults instead of inventing an IMHO cryptic, read-only mini-language?
Seriously, the problem I see with this proposal is that its aim to be as
short as
[Lie Ryan]
A hyphotetical code using conv function and the microlanguage could look
like this:
num = 213210.3242
fmt = create_format(sep='-', decsep='@')
print fmt
50|\/|3_v3ry_R34D4|3L3_C0D3
'{0!{1}}'.format(num, fmt)
'213-...@3242'
LOL, it's like APL all over again ;-)
FWIW,
Raymond Hettinger wrote:
[Lie Ryan]
A hyphotetical code using conv function and the microlanguage could look
like this:
num = 213210.3242
fmt = create_format(sep='-', decsep='@')
print fmt
50|\/|3_v3ry_R34D4|3L3_C0D3
'{0!{1}}'.format(num, fmt)
'213-...@3242'
LOL, it's like APL
Raymond Hettinger pyt...@rcn.com writes:
The proposal is roughly:
If you want commas in the output,
put a comma in the format string.
It's not rocket science.
What if you want to change the separator? Europeans usually
use periods instead of commas: one thousand = 1.000.
--
[andrew cooke]
would it break anything to also allow
format(1234567, 'd') # what we have now
'1234567'
format(1234567, '.d') # proposed new option
'1.234.567'
format(1234.5, ',2f') # proposed new option
'1234,50'
format(1234.5, '.,2f') # proposed new option
[Paul Rubin]
What if you want to change the separator? Europeans usually
use periods instead of commas: one thousand = 1.000.
That is supported also.
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
2009/3/12 Raymond Hettinger pyt...@rcn.com:
If anyone here is interested, here is a proposal I posted on the
python-ideas list.
The idea is to make numbering formatting a little easier with the new
format() builtin
in Py2.6 and Py3.0: http://docs.python.org/library/string.html#formatspec
On Freitag, 13. März 2009, Raymond Hettinger wrote:
[Paul Rubin]
What if you want to change the separator? Europeans usually
use periods instead of commas: one thousand = 1.000.
That is supported also.
do you support just a fixed set of separators or anything?
how about this:
On Mar 13, 7:06 am, Tim Rowe digi...@gmail.com wrote:
2009/3/12 Raymond Hettinger pyt...@rcn.com:
If anyone here is interested, here is a proposal I posted on the
python-ideas list.
The idea is to make numbering formatting a little easier with the new
format() builtin
in Py2.6 and
2009/3/13 prueba...@latinmail.com:
I think this proposal is more for debugging big numbers and meant mostly
for programmers' eyes. We are already using the dot instead of comma
decimal separator in our programming languages that one more
Americanism won't kill us.
If it were for the
Raymond Hettinger wrote:
[andrew cooke]
would it break anything to also allow
format(1234567, 'd') # what we have now
'1234567'
format(1234567, '.d') # proposed new option
'1.234.567'
format(1234.5, ',2f') # proposed new option
'1234,50'
format(1234.5, '.,2f') #
The separators can be any one of COMMA,
SPACE, DOT, UNDERSCORE, or NON-BREAKING-SPACE.
What if I want other separators?
format(n, ',d').replace(,, yoursep)
How about this idea: make the format has long format, which is a bit
more verbose, flexible, and unambiguous, and the current
Lie Ryan wrote:
Hendrik van Rooyen wrote:
Ulrich Eckhardt eck...aser.com wrote:
Look back in history, and see how COBOL did it with the
PICTURE - dead easy and easily understandable.
Compared to that, even the C printf stuff and python's %
are incomprehensible.
- Hendrik
Yes. In
Todays updates to: http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0378/
* Detail issues with the locale module.
* Summarize commentary to date.
-- Opposition to formatting strings in general
(preferring a convenience function or PICTURE clause)
-- Opposition to any non-locale aware approach
*
Raymond Hettinger wrote:
Todays updates to: http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0378/
* Detail issues with the locale module.
* Summarize commentary to date.
-- Opposition to formatting strings in general
(preferring a convenience function or PICTURE clause)
-- Opposition to any
Tim Rowe digi...@gmail.com writes:
And if it's mostly for programmers' eyes, why does the motivation
state that Adding thousands separators is one of the simplest ways to
improve the professional appearance and readability of output exposed
to end users?
It occurs to me, at least for
Paul Rubin http://phr...@nospam.invalid writes:
'%.3K' % 1234567 = 1.235K # K = 1000
'%.:3Ki' % 1234567 = 1.206K # K = 1024
I meant 1.235M and 1.177M, of course.
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Raymond Hettinger wrote:
Motivation:
Provide a simple, non-locale aware way to format a number
with a thousands separator.
Adding thousands separators is one of the simplest ways to
improve the professional appearance and readability of
output exposed to end users.
[Lie Ryan]
In the finance world, output with commas is the norm.
I can't cite any source, but I am skeptical with that.
No doubt that you're skeptical of anything you didn't
already know ;-) I'm a CPA, was a 15 year division controller
for a Fortune 500 company, and an auditor for an
Raymond Hettinger wrote:
If anyone here is interested, here is a proposal I posted on the
python-ideas list.
The idea is to make numbering formatting a little easier with the new
format() builtin
in Py2.6 and Py3.0: http://docs.python.org/library/string.html#formatspec
Raymond Hettinger wrote:
[Lie Ryan]
In the finance world, output with commas is the norm.
I can't cite any source, but I am skeptical with that.
No doubt that you're skeptical of anything you didn't
already know ;-) I'm a CPA, was a 15 year division controller
for a Fortune 500
If anyone here is interested, here is a proposal I posted on the
python-ideas list.
The idea is to make numbering formatting a little easier with the new
format() builtin
in Py2.6 and Py3.0: http://docs.python.org/library/string.html#formatspec
If anyone here is interested, here is a proposal I posted on the
python-ideas list.
The idea is to make numbering formatting a little easier with
the new format() builtin:
http://docs.python.org/library/string.html#formatspec
Here's a re-post (hopefully without the line wrapping problems
in
Raymond Hettinger wrote:
The idea is to make numbering formatting a little easier with
the new format() builtin:
http://docs.python.org/library/string.html#formatspec
[...]
Scanning the web, I've found that thousands separators are
usually one of COMMA, PERIOD, SPACE, or UNDERSCORE. The
[Ulrich Eckhardt]
IOW, why not explicitly say what you want using keyword arguments with
defaults instead of inventing an IMHO cryptic, read-only mini-language?
That makes sense to me but I don't think that's the way the format()
builtin was implemented (see PEP 3101 which was implemented Py2.6
Raymond Hettinger wrote:
[snip]
Proposal I (from Nick Coghlan):
---
A comma will be added to the format() specifier mini-language:
[[fill]align][sign][#][0][minimumwidth][,][.precision][type]
The ',' option indicates that commas should be included in the
output as
Ulrich Eckhardt eck...aser.com wrote:
IOW, why not explicitly say what you want using keyword arguments with
defaults instead of inventing an IMHO cryptic, read-only mini-language?
Seriously, the problem I see with this proposal is that its aim to be as
short as possible actually makes the
On Mar 12, 9:56 pm, Raymond Hettinger pyt...@rcn.com wrote:
[Ulrich Eckhardt]
IOW, why not explicitly say what you want using keyword arguments with
defaults instead of inventing an IMHO cryptic, read-only mini-language?
That makes sense to me but I don't think that's the way the format()
On Mar 12, 3:30 am, Raymond Hettinger pyt...@rcn.com wrote:
If anyone here is interested, here is a proposal I posted on the
python-ideas list.
The idea is to make numbering formatting a little easier with the new
format() builtin
in Py2.6 and Py3.0:
On Mar 12, 7:51 am, prueba...@latinmail.com wrote:
On Mar 12, 3:30 am, Raymond Hettinger pyt...@rcn.com wrote:
If anyone here is interested, here is a proposal I posted on the
python-ideas list.
The idea is to make numbering formatting a little easier with the new
format() builtin
Raymond Hettinger pyt...@rcn.com writes:
FWIW, posted a cleaned-up version of the proposal at
http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0378/
It would be nice if the PEP included a comparison between the proposed
scheme and how it is done in other programs and languages. For
example, I think Common
[Paul Rubin]
It would be nice if the PEP included a comparison between the proposed
scheme and how it is done in other programs and languages.
Good idea. I'm hoping that people will post those here.
In my quick research, it looks like many languages offer
nothing more than the usual C style %
[Paul Rubin]
I think Common Lisp has a feature for formatting thousands.
I found the Common Lisp spec for this and added it to the PEP.
Raymond
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Raymond Hettinger pyt...@rcn.com writes:
In my quick research, it looks like many languages offer
nothing more than the usual C style % formatting and defer
the rest for a local aware module.
Hendrik van Rooyen's mention of Cobol's picture (aka PIC)
specifications might be added to the list.
Raymond Hettinger pyt...@rcn.com writes:
I found the Common Lisp spec for this and added it to the PEP.
Ah, cool, I simultaneously looked for it and posted about it.
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Raymond Hettinger wrote:
... a generally interesting PEP...
Missing from this PEP:
output below the decimal point.
show results for something like:
format(12345.54321, 15,.5f) -- ' 12,345.543,21'
Explain the interaction on sizes and lengths (which numbers are digits,
which are length [I
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