On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 12:54:47PM +0100, Unman wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 11:41:23AM +0200, Noor Christensen wrote:
> > On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 10:05:34AM +0100, Unman wrote:
> > > On Fri, Jun 30, 2017 at 01:19:48AM +0200, Illidan Pornrage wrote:
> > > > The latest Fedora template, 24, in th
On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 11:41:23AM +0200, Noor Christensen wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 10:05:34AM +0100, Unman wrote:
> > On Fri, Jun 30, 2017 at 01:19:48AM +0200, Illidan Pornrage wrote:
> > > The latest Fedora template, 24, in the repo will EOL soon on 2017-08-08.
> > >
> > > Are templates
On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 10:30:00AM +, Michael Carbone wrote:
> Noor Christensen:
> > On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 10:05:34AM +0100, Unman wrote:
> >> On Fri, Jun 30, 2017 at 01:19:48AM +0200, Illidan Pornrage wrote:
> >>> The latest Fedora template, 24, in the repo will EOL soon on 2017-08-08.
> >>>
Noor Christensen:
> On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 10:05:34AM +0100, Unman wrote:
>> On Fri, Jun 30, 2017 at 01:19:48AM +0200, Illidan Pornrage wrote:
>>> The latest Fedora template, 24, in the repo will EOL soon on 2017-08-08.
>>>
>>> Are templates with newer Fedora Versions ready?
>>>
>>> If not, what i
On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 10:05:34AM +0100, Unman wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 30, 2017 at 01:19:48AM +0200, Illidan Pornrage wrote:
> > The latest Fedora template, 24, in the repo will EOL soon on 2017-08-08.
> >
> > Are templates with newer Fedora Versions ready?
> >
> > If not, what is missing? Maybe I
On Fri, Jun 30, 2017 at 01:19:48AM +0200, Illidan Pornrage wrote:
> The latest Fedora template, 24, in the repo will EOL soon on 2017-08-08.
>
> Are templates with newer Fedora Versions ready?
>
> If not, what is missing? Maybe I can help porting whatever.
There are templates for Fedora-25 for b
The latest Fedora template, 24, in the repo will EOL soon on 2017-08-08.
Are templates with newer Fedora Versions ready?
If not, what is missing? Maybe I can help porting whatever.
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Fedora-24 template shows updates available. However updates terminal returns
error [cannot copy/past results]. I then open gnome terminal and get the
following:
[user@fedora-24 ~]$ sudo dnf update
Last metadata expiration check: 2:23:51 ago on Fri Mar 3 2017.
Dependencies resolved.
Hello fellow Qubes users,
If I execute update of the fedora-24 template via the Qubes VM manager,
it aborts with the error
nothing provides ostree-libs(x86-64) >= 2016.14 needed by
flatpak-0.8.3-3.fc24.x86_64
If I use
sudo dnf upgrade
from the terminal within fedora-24 the command is executed, b
Hi, I recently installed the fedora-24-minimal template per [1] and configured
all my AppVMs to use a new template based on it. All seems to be working well,
except that I am unable to install the following packages:
- ImageMagick
- pycairo
Both are skipped as follows:
~$ sudo dnf install Imag
Hi,
On 28.11.2016 03:09, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki wrote:
On Fri, Nov 18, 2016 at 01:46:26PM +0100, qu...@posteo.de wrote:
I am planning to setup my templates with salt. I have done some
preparation
some time ago but not with the Fedora 24 templates I thought it was
time to
do it properly.
On Tuesday, December 6, 2016 at 4:10:51 PM UTC+1, Robert Mittendorf wrote:
> I solved the problem using
>
> dnf install notification-daemon gnome-keyring
>
> without this it is not possible to store credentials for a new network
> or change existing ones.
confirmed.
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I solved the problem using
dnf install notification-daemon gnome-keyring
without this it is not possible to store credentials for a new network
or change existing ones.
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Am 12/01/2016 um 11:07 PM schrieb Andrew David Wong:
> Are you sure it's a missing package? I pretty sure I installed only those
> packages and haven't run into that issue.
>
> Does it work correctly if you try switching to the full template?
>
>
As said before using the full template in the same V
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On 2016-12-01 07:01, Robert Mittendorf wrote:
> As mentioned here:
> https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/templates/fedora-minimal/
>
> I installed:
> NetworkManager NetworkManager-wifi network-manager-applet wireless-tools
> dbus-x11 dejavu-sans-fonts tiny
As mentioned here:
https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/templates/fedora-minimal/
I installed:
NetworkManager NetworkManager-wifi network-manager-applet wireless-tools
dbus-x11 dejavu-sans-fonts tinyproxy
to the minimal template to use it for a NetVM (WiFi)
The NetworkManager icon appears and lists avai
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On Fri, Nov 18, 2016 at 01:46:26PM +0100, qu...@posteo.de wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am planning to setup my templates with salt. I have done some preparation
> some time ago but not with the Fedora 24 templates I thought it was time to
> do it properly.
>
All the packets listed in the link are already installed on my template-vm.
Moreover, as I said, I didn't do a fresh install, I upgraded to f24 my
pre-existing f23 templates. It would be strange if some packets would go
missing after the upgrade!
Same thing for the fonts (the font problem affe
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On 11/24/16 02:35, Fabrizio Romano Genovese wrote:
> As the title says: I've cloned my fedora 23 templates and followed the
> procedure to upgrade them to fedora 24. Everything is splendid, the only two
> disappointing things are:
>
> a) Network m
As the title says: I've cloned my fedora 23 templates and followed the
procedure to upgrade them to fedora 24. Everything is splendid, the only two
disappointing things are:
a) Network manager applet icon is missing. May this be related to the fact that
my netvm runs on a minimal template?
b)
I tried to upgrade a Qubes 3.1 system to use FC24 a while back, and dnf
itself broke badly, stating something about not having a python "Goal",
having something to do with the python module missing some feature or
module. The template was therefor unusable, since it could not be
maintained. I d
Marek Marczykowski-Górecki:
> So, expect Fedora 24 template being supported in R3.1 soon too :)
Thank you!
Looking forward to the announcement.
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On Mon, Nov 21, 2016 at 04:45:33PM +0100, Achim Patzner wrote:
>
> > Am 20.11.2016 um 21:16 schrieb Joonas Lehtonen
> > :
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > since Qubes 3.1 is supported until 2017-03-29
>
> This is a question I always wanted to ask: What does
> Am 20.11.2016 um 21:16 schrieb Joonas Lehtonen
> :
>
> Hi,
>
> since Qubes 3.1 is supported until 2017-03-29
This is a question I always wanted to ask: What does “support” mean in relation
to Qubes? Security fixes? Plus bug fixes? Plus feature upgrades?
Achim
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On 2016-11-14 23:57, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki wrote:
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On Mon, Nov 14, 2016 at 11:14:19PM +, Gaijin wrote:
systemctl doesn't show anything abnormal
systemctl --all shows several not found inactive dead listings
ex.
livesys.service
ntpd.service
Hi,
since Qubes 3.1 is supported until 2017-03-29
according to
https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/supported-versions/
does that mean we will see a Fedora 24 template for R3.1 before Fedora
23 reaches EOL?
thanks,
Joonas
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"q
Hi,
I am planning to setup my templates with salt. I have done some
preparation some time ago but not with the Fedora 24 templates I thought
it was time to do it properly.
One of the issues is that the minimal template can not use salt by
default afaik but needs the package "qubes-mgmt-salt"
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On Mon, Nov 14, 2016 at 11:14:19PM +, Gaijin wrote:
> systemctl doesn't show anything abnormal
> systemctl --all shows several not found inactive dead listings
> ex.
> livesys.service
> ntpd.service
> qubes-core.service
> qubes-dvm.service
> qube
On 2016-11-14 06:42, Gaijin wrote:
On 2016-11-13 23:33, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki wrote:
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On Sun, Nov 13, 2016 at 11:12:34PM +, Gaijin wrote:
I have several templates based on Fedora 23 where I've installed
various
software. When I follow the
On 2016-11-13 23:33, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki wrote:
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On Sun, Nov 13, 2016 at 11:12:34PM +, Gaijin wrote:
I have several templates based on Fedora 23 where I've installed
various
software. When I follow the manual upgrade instructions the upd
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On Sun, Nov 13, 2016 at 11:12:34PM +, Gaijin wrote:
> I have several templates based on Fedora 23 where I've installed various
> software. When I follow the manual upgrade instructions the update proceeds
> without error. However, when I get to t
On 2016-11-13 03:52, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki wrote:
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Hi all,
Fedora 24 template is now available for direct installation. This means
there are now two ways to have it on Qubes 3.2 system:
1. Upgrade existing Fedora 23 template according to this
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Hi all,
Fedora 24 template is now available for direct installation. This means
there are now two ways to have it on Qubes 3.2 system:
1. Upgrade existing Fedora 23 template according to this instruction:
https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/fedora-te
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On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 12:56:28PM +0200, Zrubi wrote:
> On 10/28/2016 11:44 AM, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki wrote:
>
> > Or maybe
> > it's still at 3.1 there (and the updated one saved in .rpmnew file)?
>
> That was the case.
> My templates are upd
On 10/28/2016 09:40 AM, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki wrote:
>
> Actually yes, we may hook qubes-gui-agent.service into graphical.target
> and call it "display manager", preventing others from running. This is
> good idea, but something I'd like to avoid as a stable update - so, for
> Qubes 4.0.
Yes,
On 10/28/2016 11:44 AM, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki wrote:
> Or maybe
> it's still at 3.1 there (and the updated one saved in .rpmnew file)?
That was the case.
My templates are updated to fc24 now.
A few notes about this:
- skipping the template upgrade from 3.1 has no immediate visible
effec
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On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 11:37:02AM +0200, Laszlo Zrubecz wrote:
> On 10/28/2016 11:20 AM, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki wrote:
>
> > It looks so... See here:
> > https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/upgrade-to-r3.2/#upgrade-all-template-and-standalone-vms
>
>
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On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 09:28:31AM +, Manuel Amador (Rudd-O) wrote:
> On 10/28/2016 01:56 AM, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki wrote:
> > On Thu, Oct 27, 2016 at 03:31:46PM +0200, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki
> > wrote:
> > > On Thu, Oct 27, 2016 at 09:5
On 10/28/2016 11:20 AM, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki wrote:
> It looks so... See here:
> https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/upgrade-to-r3.2/#upgrade-all-template-and-standalone-vms
It was not made a difference - only the package versions changed, the
error is the same.
so I'm still stucked with broken d
On 10/28/2016 01:56 AM, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 27, 2016 at 03:31:46PM +0200, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki
> wrote:
> > On Thu, Oct 27, 2016 at 09:50:56AM +0200, Zrubi wrote:
> >> On 09/06/2016 01:24 AM, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki wrote:
> >>
> >>> I've just tried this and suc
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On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 10:51:43AM +0200, Zrubi wrote:
> On 10/28/2016 10:46 AM, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki wrote:
>
> > Wait a sec, qubes-gui-vm-3.1.7 ? Is this Qubes 3.1? We don't have fc24
> > support there...
>
> Well no. It is Qubes 3.2 - but
On 10/28/2016 10:46 AM, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki wrote:
> Wait a sec, qubes-gui-vm-3.1.7 ? Is this Qubes 3.1? We don't have fc24
> support there...
Well no. It is Qubes 3.2 - but a restored template.
Maybe I just messed up something related to 3.1 -> 3.2 upgrade?
However to template is working
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On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 10:32:12AM +0200, Zrubi wrote:
> On 10/28/2016 10:06 AM, Zrubi wrote:
> > On 10/27/2016 03:31 PM, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki wrote:
> >
> >> I haven't tried recently, but it worked before. Maybe a workaround would
> >> be to
On 10/28/2016 10:06 AM, Zrubi wrote:
> On 10/27/2016 03:31 PM, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki wrote:
>
>> I haven't tried recently, but it worked before. Maybe a workaround would
>> be to disable "updates" repository for the upgrade time? Just add
>> --disablerepo=updates.
>
> I do not understand the
On 10/27/2016 03:31 PM, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki wrote:
> I haven't tried recently, but it worked before. Maybe a workaround would
> be to disable "updates" repository for the upgrade time? Just add
> --disablerepo=updates.
I do not understand the reason - but it was worked this way - thanks.
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On Thu, Oct 27, 2016 at 03:31:46PM +0200, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 27, 2016 at 09:50:56AM +0200, Zrubi wrote:
> > On 09/06/2016 01:24 AM, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki wrote:
> >
> > > I've just tried this and successfully upgrad
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On Thu, Oct 27, 2016 at 09:50:56AM +0200, Zrubi wrote:
> On 09/06/2016 01:24 AM, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki wrote:
>
> > I've just tried this and successfully upgraded Fedora 23 to Fedora 24
> > template.
> >
> > TL;DR version:
> > 1. Clone fedora-
On 09/06/2016 11:10 AM, Achim Patzner wrote:
> Some key bindings might have changed; ctrl-"+" in a terminal window
> increases the font size but the terminal window does not grow with it
> anymore.
Finally! The GNOME people finally unfucked Ctrl++!
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On 09/16/2016 04:41 AM, J. Eppler wrote:
> Is it a good idea to spend time on fedora 24? Fedora 25 should be released in
> November/December and will use Wayland per default. Would it not be better to
> skip Fedora 24 and focus on resources and efforts on Fedora 25?
>
We will not get to Fedora 2
On 09/06/2016 01:24 AM, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki wrote:
> I've just tried this and successfully upgraded Fedora 23 to Fedora 24
> template.
>
> TL;DR version:
> 1. Clone fedora-23 to fedora-24-test.
> 2. Open terminal in fedora-24-test.
> 3. Run "dnf upgrade --releasever=24".
> 4. Shutdown the
On Saturday, September 24, 2016 at 8:04:54 PM UTC-7, Sebastian Jug wrote:
> On Friday, September 16, 2016 at 4:37:17 AM UTC-4, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki
> wrote:
> > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> > Hash: SHA256
> >
> > On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 09:41:37PM -0700, J. Eppler wrote:
> > > Is it
On Friday, September 16, 2016 at 4:37:17 AM UTC-4, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki
wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA256
>
> On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 09:41:37PM -0700, J. Eppler wrote:
> > Is it a good idea to spend time on fedora 24? Fedora 25 should be released
> > in November/D
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On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 09:41:37PM -0700, J. Eppler wrote:
> Is it a good idea to spend time on fedora 24? Fedora 25 should be released in
> November/December and will use Wayland per default. Would it not be better to
> skip Fedora 24 and focus on
Is it a good idea to spend time on fedora 24? Fedora 25 should be released in
November/December and will use Wayland per default. Would it not be better to
skip Fedora 24 and focus on resources and efforts on Fedora 25?
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On Wed, Sep 14, 2016 at 11:27:20PM +0200, Achim Patzner wrote:
> Am 14.09.2016 um 23:16 schrieb Marek Marczykowski-Górecki:
> > > Ok, as everybody was looking for a problem, I finally found one.
> > I've been
> > > bitten by this
> > > http://forums.
Am 14.09.2016 um 23:16 schrieb Marek Marczykowski-Górecki:
> > Ok, as everybody was looking for a problem, I finally found one.
> I've been
> > bitten by this
> > http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?p=1770311
> ("/etc/resolv.conf
> > missing once NetworkManager is stopped") and don't reall
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On Wed, Sep 14, 2016 at 10:01:19PM +0100, Noses wrote:
> On Tue, 13 Sep 2016 12:35:20 -0700 (PDT)
> pixel fairy wrote:
> > i think fedora24 should be the default template for qubes 3.2. were all
> > testing it, cant see any problems. we cant have a
On Tue, 13 Sep 2016 12:35:20 -0700 (PDT)
pixel fairy wrote:
i think fedora24 should be the default template for
qubes 3.2. were all testing it, cant see any problems. we
cant have an EOL release for appvms.
Ok, as everybody was looking for a problem, I finally found one. I've been
bitten by
i think fedora24 should be the default template for qubes 3.2. were all testing
it, cant see any problems. we cant have an EOL release for appvms.
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On Monday, September 5, 2016 at 4:24:09 PM UTC-7, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki
wrote:
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>
> On Thu, Jun 23, 2016 at 09:31:46PM +0200, Niels Kobschaetzki wrote:
> > On 16/06/23 00:28, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki wrote:
> > > On Wed, Jun 22, 2016 at 11
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On 2016-09-08 05:14, pixel fairy wrote:
> On Wednesday, September 7, 2016 at 6:40:24 AM UTC-7, Marek
> Marczykowski-Górecki wrote:
>
>>
>> For Qubes 4.0 it hasn't been decided yet (most likely will be
>> Fedora 23 too). But hopefully we'll have new
On 09/05/2016 07:24 PM, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki wrote:
I've just tried this and successfully upgraded Fedora 23 to Fedora 24
template.
TL;DR version:
1. Clone fedora-23 to fedora-24-test.
2. Open terminal in fedora-24-test.
3. Run "dnf upgrade --releasever=24".
4. Shutdown the template.
5.
On Wednesday, September 7, 2016 at 6:40:24 AM UTC-7, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki
wrote:
>
> For Qubes 4.0 it hasn't been decided yet (most likely will be Fedora
> 23 too). But hopefully we'll have newer kernel there. I'd aim for 4.8.
looks like fedora 23 will be EOL in 3-4 months.
https://fedor
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On Tue, Sep 06, 2016 at 08:44:35PM -0700, pixel fairy wrote:
> > On 09/05/2016 08:24 PM, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki wrote:
> > > Please, if any of you have a chance, test such template.
>
> Whats the time frame on 3.2? fedora 25 is out in november.
and forgot to mention, I followed the documentation for upgrade from 21 to 23,
i.e. used an additional disk image for cache and modules. otherwise it would
fail with my densely populated templates.
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I upgraded all fedora-based vms to 24 about a month ago when I noticed a qubes
repo for that. all upgrades went smooth but I suggest backups first because of
different versions of software. things may break if you switch back to 23. I
had this problem with remmina, it couldn't work properly with
> On 09/05/2016 08:24 PM, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki wrote:
> > Please, if any of you have a chance, test such template.
Whats the time frame on 3.2? fedora 25 is out in november. would it be worth it
to wait? or just make an updated template then?
would also be good to have a newer set of graph
On 09/05/2016 08:24 PM, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki wrote:
> Please, if any of you have a chance, test such template.
I had to resize the system partition, because the upgrade was too big to
fit on it. Automatic resizing didn't work. I had to run resize2fs manually.
The upgrade went through smooth
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On Tue, Sep 06, 2016 at 01:10:51PM +0200, Achim Patzner wrote:
> Am 06.09.2016 um 11:17 schrieb Marek Marczykowski-Górecki:
> > Just some standard usage things, like:
> > - networking (like standard web browsing)
>
> Working.
>
> > - updates / pa
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On Tue, Sep 06, 2016 at 01:07:49PM +0200, Achim Patzner wrote:
> Am 06.09.2016 um 11:30 schrieb Marek Marczykowski-Górecki:
> > There are no fc24 packages for R3.1. So if you're starting with R3.1
> > template, first you need to upgrade it to R3.2.
>
Am 06.09.2016 um 11:17 schrieb Marek Marczykowski-Górecki:
> Just some standard usage things, like:
> - networking (like standard web browsing)
Working.
> - updates / package installation (is it working at all? does new apps
>show up in the menu?)
Working.
> - emails (for example if Qube
Am 06.09.2016 um 11:30 schrieb Marek Marczykowski-Górecki:
> > Does anyone have a simple tool to diff the rpm inventory of two machines
> > and apply everything that is not installed in the target machine? 8-)
>
> rpm -qa |sort > pkg_list
> Then diff those files...
I hoped there was an easier way
On Tuesday, September 6, 2016 at 11:17:10 AM UTC+2, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki
wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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>
> On Tue, Sep 06, 2016 at 12:24:54AM -0700, Foppe de Haan wrote:
> > On Tuesday, September 6, 2016 at 1:24:09 AM UTC+2, Marek
> > Marczykowski-Górecki wrote
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On Tue, Sep 06, 2016 at 08:27:09AM +0200, Achim Patzner wrote:
> Am 06.09.2016 um 01:24 schrieb Marek Marczykowski-Górecki:
> > I've just tried this and successfully upgraded Fedora 23 to Fedora 24
> > template.
> >
> > TL;DR version:
> > 1. Clone fe
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On Tue, Sep 06, 2016 at 12:24:54AM -0700, Foppe de Haan wrote:
> On Tuesday, September 6, 2016 at 1:24:09 AM UTC+2, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki
> wrote:
> > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> > Hash: SHA256
> >
> > On Thu, Jun 23, 2016 at 09:31:46
On Tuesday, September 6, 2016 at 1:24:09 AM UTC+2, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki
wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA256
>
> On Thu, Jun 23, 2016 at 09:31:46PM +0200, Niels Kobschaetzki wrote:
> > On 16/06/23 00:28, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki wrote:
> > > On Wed, Jun 22, 2016 at 1
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On Thu, Jun 23, 2016 at 09:31:46PM +0200, Niels Kobschaetzki wrote:
> On 16/06/23 00:28, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki wrote:
> > On Wed, Jun 22, 2016 at 11:41:12AM +0200, Niels Kobschätzki wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > what would I need to do to update
Hi,
is it already safe/possible to upgrade a Fedora 23-template to Fedora 24?
Niels
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On 16/06/23 00:28, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki wrote:
On Wed, Jun 22, 2016 at 11:41:12AM +0200, Niels Kobschätzki wrote:
Hi,
what would I need to do to update an existing Fedora-template or install a new
template to/with Fedora24?
Will Fedora24-templates come with Qubes 3.2?
In Qubes 3.2 we
> On June 23, 2016 at 12:28 AM Marek Marczykowski-Górecki
> wrote:
>
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA256
>
> On Wed, Jun 22, 2016 at 11:41:12AM +0200, Niels Kobschätzki wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > what would I need to do to update an existing Fedora-template or install a
> > new
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256
On Wed, Jun 22, 2016 at 11:41:12AM +0200, Niels Kobschätzki wrote:
> Hi,
>
> what would I need to do to update an existing Fedora-template or install a
> new template to/with Fedora24?
>
> Will Fedora24-templates come with Qubes 3.2?
In Qubes 3.2
Hi,
what would I need to do to update an existing Fedora-template or install a new
template to/with Fedora24?
Will Fedora24-templates come with Qubes 3.2?
Niels
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