Re: [ntp:questions] Fwd: [ntpwg] RFC 5905 on Network Time Protocol Version 4: Protocol and Algorithms Specification

2010-06-24 Thread Richard B. Gilbert
pc wrote: At risk of stirring up a hornets' nest: The RFC unequivocally states that "A primary server is synchronized to a reference clock directly traceable to UTC." IMO, that is not a necessary condition. If I have a hierarchy of NTP servers and clients with no external connection to the Inte

[ntp:questions] Time Islands (Was: Re: Fwd: [ntpwg] RFC 5905 ... )

2010-06-24 Thread Steve Kostecke
On 2010-06-24, pc wrote: > Many users of this list have a requirement to synchronize a number of > machines within some user-defined limit, but they don't care if they > are all offset from UTC by a few minutes. The problem is that most time island operators appear to make the unstated assumptio

Re: [ntp:questions] NTPv4 RFC

2010-06-24 Thread David L. Mills
David, "...pretending to be a mathematical treatise..." Let's take a closer look at that judgment. The RFC is based on a document I wrote five years ago. That document was carefully typeset with equations, figures and tables for precise engineering description. The IETF required a text-only docum

Re: [ntp:questions] ntpdsim-4.2.6p1

2010-06-24 Thread David L. Mills
Wolfgang, I used this program extensively some years ago, but not with the new syntax. I am told it enables many new features, but I have not verified that. You might be able to drop back to the old syntax The old syntax allowed only a single server and client, but the new syntax should support m

Re: [ntp:questions] Fwd: [ntpwg] RFC 5905 on Network Time Protocol Version 4: Protocol and Algorithms Specification

2010-06-24 Thread Chuck Swiger
Hi-- On Jun 24, 2010, at 6:45 AM, pc wrote: > The RFC unequivocally states that "A primary server is synchronized to a > reference clock directly traceable to UTC." > > IMO, that is not a necessary condition. If I have a hierarchy of NTP servers > and clients with no external connection to the

Re: [ntp:questions] Fwd: [ntpwg] RFC 5905 on Network Time Protocol Version 4: Protocol and Algorithms Specification

2010-06-24 Thread David L. Mills
pc, You completely miss the point. By definition a primary server is synchronized to UTC via an external source such as a GPS receiver. By definition, it operates at stratum 1. It is indeed possible to operate a server with some other reference source, even itself (orphan mode or local clock

Re: [ntp:questions] Reference clock driver for /dev/rtc

2010-06-24 Thread Uwe Klein
[ escape4glob $patt1 ]David L. Mills wrote: Pavel, Linux has many, do we actually know anything about per platform usage ? My guess is that Linux boxes these days comprise the majority of ntpd users. uwe ___ questions mailing list question

Re: [ntp:questions] Fwd: [ntpwg] RFC 5905 on Network Time Protocol Version 4: Protocol and Algorithms Specification

2010-06-24 Thread pc
At risk of stirring up a hornets' nest: The RFC unequivocally states that "A primary server is synchronized to a reference clock directly traceable to UTC." IMO, that is not a necessary condition. If I have a hierarchy of NTP servers and clients with no external connection to the Internet and I f

Re: [ntp:questions] Reference clock driver for /dev/rtc

2010-06-24 Thread Krejci, Pavel
Hello Dave, From: David L. Mills [mailto:mi...@udel.edu] Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 4:42 AM To: Krejci, Pavel Cc: questions@lists.ntp.org Subject: Re: [ntp:questions] Reference clock driver for /dev/rtc Pavel, It's not as simple as that. Normally, ntpd uses s

Re: [ntp:questions] Reference clock driver for /dev/rtc

2010-06-24 Thread David L. Mills
Pavel, It's not as simple as that. Normally, ntpd uses settimeofday() once per hour to set the system clock, which has the side effect of setting the RTC. Obviously, you don't want that. If the RTC refclock is enabled, that has to be disabled, so some kind of interlock must be devised. This c

Re: [ntp:questions] Reference clock driver for /dev/rtc

2010-06-24 Thread David L. Mills
Pavel, Linux has many, many times broken the NTP model compatible with other systems such as Solaris and FreeBSD, among others. I have no trouble with that as long as whatever modifications are required in NTP to make the RTC driver work remain proprietary to Linux and never leak to other sys

Re: [ntp:questions] http://support.ntp.org/ - etc - all down - !?

2010-06-24 Thread Steve Kostecke
On 2010-06-24, geep wrote: > I can see an error message relating to your 2 DNS servers: > > no answer from ns2.ntp.org (149.20.54.239) > no answer from ns1.ntp.org (149.20.54.238) We do not have name servers at those addresses. > via: http://www.robtex.com/dns/ntp.org.html#analysis Thank-yo

Re: [ntp:questions] http://support.ntp.org/ - etc - all down - !?

2010-06-24 Thread Richard B. Gilbert
geep wrote: On Wed, 23 Jun 2010 20:14:40 +, Steve Kostecke wrote: All of our systems are up. We are currently experiencing some DNS "issues" and are attempting to resolve them. We apologize for any inconvenience this may be causing. Steve - thanks for the info. I can see an error message

Re: [ntp:questions] http://support.ntp.org/ - etc - all down - !?

2010-06-24 Thread geep
On Wed, 23 Jun 2010 20:14:40 +, Steve Kostecke wrote: > > All of our systems are up. We are currently experiencing some DNS > "issues" and are attempting to resolve them. > > We apologize for any inconvenience this may be causing. Steve - thanks for the info. I can see an error message relat