[RBW] Re: EEK!!! Say it ain't so (Shimano Electronic Shiftng System)

Is there a chance that this could be good for those of us who like the non-racing style of riding (as opposed to our friends who don't race either but shop for parts as if they do and get won over by the marketing as if they do)? Is there a chance that this Electronic Shifting System could tak

[RBW] Re: EEK!!! Say it ain't so (Shimano Electronic Shiftng System)

World gone crazy. This just seems so eminently unnecessary (and even a step down in true refinement) to most of cycling and cyclists, but maybe it will be a boon in the racing world. Part of me hopes not. It just seems antithetical to the basics of cycling -- but I am probably just branding myself

[RBW] Re: EEK!!! Say it ain't so (Shimano Electronic Shiftng System)

It is so terribly exhausting to have to manually shift on a bike.. :) On Feb 14, 3:22 pm, Jim Cloud wrote: > First a reintroduction.  I was previously a member of the old bikelist > Rivendell Bicycle Owners group, however I haven't participated in this > reconstituted group under the Cyclofi

[RBW] Re: EEK!!! Say it ain't so (Shimano Electronic Shiftng System)

On Sun, Feb 15, 2009 at 5:43 PM, Kelly wrote: > > It is so terribly exhausting to have to manually shift on a > bike.. :) > But think - maybe powering these things will make dynamo hubs cheaper and more readily available. Always looking on the bright side or something. :) -sv --~--~--

[RBW] Re: EEK!!! Say it ain't so (Shimano Electronic Shiftng System)

I think bikesnobnycsummed it up well: *I don't know anybody who rides Dura Ace and hasn't been saying for years now, "You know what would make this group even better? Finite battery life!" * On Sun, Feb 15, 200

[RBW] Re: EEK!!! Say it ain't so (Shimano Electronic Shiftng System)

No, they would lap it up, mounting it on their Lance Armstrong replica Treks. The good news is that we get their cast-offs at a great price! On Sun, Feb 15, 2009 at 11:54 AM, James Warren wrote: > > Is there a chance that this could be good for those of us who like the > non-racing style of ridi

[RBW] Re: EEK!!! Say it ain't so (Shimano Electronic Shiftng System)

I believe this is very interesting. One of the cool things it says in the NY Times article is that the FD will automatically readjust based on the pos'n of the rear. No need to go buy, but fun to know about and watch the dev't. Maybe it will not turn out to be an advance, maybe it will. It is

[RBW] Re: EEK!!! Say it ain't so (Shimano Electronic Shiftng System)

A good perspective, Todd, especially this: "If we had all been hanging out on some Automobile list in the 20th century when the automatic transmission was introduced, I bet the comments would have appeared similar in terms of defense of the existing great technology. " True enough! -- Forrest

[RBW] Re: EEK!!! Say it ain't so (Shimano Electronic Shiftng System)

On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 6:55 AM, Todd Olsen wrote: > > I believe this is very interesting. One of the cool things it says in > the NY Times article is that the FD will automatically readjust based > on the pos'n of the rear. That brings them up to par with 1980s Suntour technology. :-) Suntou

[RBW] Re: EEK!!! Say it ain't so (Shimano Electronic Shiftng System)

Is it really any surprise that people think we can be a snobby bunch of cranky old elitests? Just look at the comments above and imagine what you would think if you rode a carbon Colnogo instead of a Riv... Here we have a new technology that is, at least, pretty cool to think about the advances

[RBW] Re: EEK!!! Say it ain't so (Shimano Electronic Shiftng System)

On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 12:02 PM, Chris wrote: > > Is it really any surprise that people think we can be a snobby bunch > of cranky old elitests? > > Just look at the comments above and imagine what you would think if > you rode a carbon Colnogo instead of a Riv... Here we have a new > technolog

[RBW] Re: EEK!!! Say it ain't so (Shimano Electronic Shiftng System)

I have raced, and I enjoy owning and riding racing bikes. And you're right, I think people should stop putting down racers, wannabe racers, or lycra-wearing skinny-tire-riding club riders because I'm one of them, and I don't like it when people make those types of comments. But, come on. Electroni

[RBW] Re: EEK!!! Say it ain't so (Shimano Electronic Shiftng System)

Don't get me wrong...I have no use for electronic shifting But, look at trickle down technology. The affordable 105 we are riding now was the Dura Ace of 8 or 10 years ago (at the most)...heck, even Tiagra rides/shifts as well as the old 600 group. All I'm saying is we sometimes get caught u

[RBW] Re: EEK!!! Say it ain't so (Shimano Electronic Shiftng System)

On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 3:09 PM, Chris wrote: > > Don't get me wrong...I have no use for electronic shifting > > But, look at trickle down technology. The affordable 105 we are riding > now was the Dura Ace of 8 or 10 years ago (at the most)...heck, even > Tiagra rides/shifts as well as the o

[RBW] Re: EEK!!! Say it ain't so (Shimano Electronic Shiftng System)

> I think we need to step back and enjoy all things bicycle, just > because we may not need it doesn't mean it's crap. Imagine where we'd > be if it wasn't for all money being pumped into the cycling world by > people buying $10k bikes with electrinic shifting, I dare say we'd > have a LOT less ch

[RBW] Re: EEK!!! Say it ain't so (Shimano Electronic Shiftng System)

om: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com [mailto:rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 12:09 PM To: RBW Owners Bunch Subject: [RBW] Re: EEK!!! Say it ain't so (Shimano Electronic Shiftng System) Don't get me wrong...I have no use for electronic shif

[RBW] Re: EEK!!! Say it ain't so (Shimano Electronic Shiftng System)

I find this comment, from the article, to be a little hard to swallow ; "the system also eliminates much of the maintenance required by mechanical systems" hmmm you still have FD, RD chain and crank, to which you have added electronics, so how exactly does that reduce maintence ? IMO it just add

[RBW] Re: EEK!!! Say it ain't so (Shimano Electronic Shiftng System)

The notion of dynamo hubs powering electronic shifting is kind of intriguing. There may be some potential there. But the whole idea still strikes me as overly-complicated and unnecessary. I'm no racer, though, and maybe this would make a real difference in competition. Ultimately, to each his or h

[RBW] Re: EEK!!! Say it ain't so (Shimano Electronic Shiftng System)

Shift happens. On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 2:24 PM, Forrest wrote: > > The notion of dynamo hubs powering electronic shifting is kind of > intriguing. There may be some potential there. But the whole idea > still strikes me as overly-complicated and unnecessary. I'm no racer, > though, and maybe thi

[RBW] Re: EEK!!! Say it ain't so (Shimano Electronic Shiftng System)

On Mon, 2009-02-16 at 10:43 -0800, RoadieRyan wrote: > I find this comment, from the article, to be a little hard to > swallow ; "the system also eliminates much of the maintenance required > by mechanical systems" hmmm you still have FD, RD chain and crank, to > which you have added electronics,

[RBW] Re: EEK!!! Say it ain't so (Shimano Electronic Shiftng System)

I'd like to hear replies to this: "Now to the question of if the commen rider needs electric shifting? Whether you need electric DA or regular DA (or Ultegra for that matter) is no different than buying the AHH instead of a Hillborne or a Saluki instead of a Bleriot. Both bike are designed to do

[RBW] Re: EEK!!! Say it ain't so (Shimano Electronic Shiftng System)

On Mon, 2009-02-16 at 15:51 -0800, Chris wrote: > I'd like to hear replies to this: > > "Now to the question of if the commen rider needs electric shifting? > Whether you need electric DA or regular DA (or Ultegra for that > matter) is no different than buying the AHH instead of a Hillborne or >

[RBW] Re: EEK!!! Say it ain't so (Shimano Electronic Shiftng System)

I find this new system fascinating, and see several advantages. Until the price comes down, I think I'd be happier splurging that kind of dough on a Rohloff internal hub on a Quickbeam frame. :-) On Feb 16, 5:31 pm, Steve Palincsar wrote: > On Mon, 2009-02-16 at 10:43 -0800, RoadieRyan wrote:

[RBW] Re: EEK!!! Say it ain't so (Shimano Electronic Shiftng System)

On Feb 16, 4:18 pm, Steve Palincsar wrote: > > I have no doubt whatsoever that my Salukihttp://www.freewebs.com/palincss/ > is much prettier than a Bleriot.   > > What's that got to do with electric shifting?  You will note, there's no > electric shifting on my Saluki, although it indeed has an

[RBW] Re: EEK!!! Say it ain't so (Shimano Electronic Shiftng System)

On Mon, 2009-02-16 at 17:18 -0800, Chris wrote: > > > On Feb 16, 4:18 pm, Steve Palincsar wrote: > > > > I have no doubt whatsoever that my Salukihttp://www.freewebs.com/palincss/ > > is much prettier than a Bleriot. > > > > What's that got to do with electric shifting? You will note, there'

[RBW] Re: EEK!!! Say it ain't so (Shimano Electronic Shiftng System)

on 2/16/09 5:18 PM, Chris at fourf...@gmail.com wrote: > What it has to do, since we are arguing that electric shifting isn't > needed, is that you don't NEED a Saluki when a Bleriot will do just > fine. By the designer's own word's, the bikes are designed to do the > same thing... Not really sur

[RBW] Re: EEK!!! Say it ain't so (Shimano Electronic Shiftng System)

on 2/16/09 12:09 PM, Chris at fourf...@gmail.com wrote: > Don't get me wrong...I have no use for electronic shifting > > But, look at trickle down technology. The affordable 105 we are riding > now was the Dura Ace of 8 or 10 years ago (at the most)...heck, even > Tiagra rides/shifts as well

[RBW] Re: EEK!!! Say it ain't so (Shimano Electronic Shiftng System)

> Electric shifting is frivilous for most riders, but then so is paying > twice as much for a Hilson when a Hillborne is the same bike for the > most part... The argument is a complete red herring. Electric shifting is gimmickry and detracts from the people power aspect of cycling. Craftsmanship

[RBW] Re: EEK!!! Say it ain't so (Shimano Electronic Shiftng System)

On Feb 16, 7:35 pm, CycloFiend wrote: > > Electric shifting is frivilous for most riders, but then so is paying > > twice as much for a Hilson when a Hillborne is the same bike for the > > most part... > > They aren't really the same.  I'd describe the Hillborne as a melding of the > Atlantis w

[RBW] Re: EEK!!! Say it ain't so (Shimano Electronic Shiftng System)

on 2/16/09 8:31 PM, Chris at fourf...@gmail.com wrote: > This is all I'll say on this subject, because it's obvious no one here > sees my point (and that's ok, I guess). > But, on the point of the > Hilson and Hillborne being the same...Here it is from the man himself > > "Should I get an A. Home

[RBW] Re: EEK!!! Say it ain't so (Shimano Electronic Shiftng System)

> So, they are the same bike...just one had more prestige, just like > electronic Dura Ace. > > Chris > Don't shy away from technology, it really won't bite you! You are assuming because electric shifting technology is new it is prestigious. I do not think that is a logical conclusion at all. I

[RBW] Re: EEK!!! Say it ain't so (Shimano Electronic Shiftng System)

I think Chris is referring to price. With the two bikes, as with the components, one is twice as expensive as the other. New technology "bores" you as it provides no value? Don't you think it's a little too soon to make that decision? Personally, new technology does the opposite for me. It

[RBW] Re: EEK!!! Say it ain't so (Shimano Electronic Shiftng System)

Much more so than a car... :P I'm pretty sure I'm the only person on our small suburban street that still drives (by preference) a car with a manual transmission, and both of my daughters will learn how to drive a manual transmission. Pete On Feb 15, 5:43 pm, Kelly wrote: > It is so terribly e

[RBW] Re: EEK!!! Say it ain't so (Shimano Electronic Shiftng System)

Racing aside, this technology could be put to use for folks with disabilities whereas the mechanics of "mechanical" shifting is difficult or even impossible. 2 pennies. C Canter On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 9:08 AM, pruckelshaus wrote: > > Much more so than a car... :P > > I'm pretty sure I'm the onl

[RBW] Re: EEK!!! Say it ain't so (Shimano Electronic Shiftng System)

> I think Chris is referring to price. With the two bikes, as with the > components, one is twice as expensive as the other. The Hilsen is more expensive than the Hillbourne because it is made in small US and Japanese craft shops as opposed to large factories. Electronic shifting is expensive be

[RBW] Re: EEK!!! Say it ain't so (Shimano Electronic Shiftng System)

On Feb 17, 6:29 am, clyde canter wrote: > Racing aside, this technology could be put to use for folks with > disabilities whereas the mechanics of "mechanical" shifting is  difficult or > even impossible. > 2 pennies. > C Canter I think this is a really good point. Still... I'm not intrigued b

[RBW] Re: EEK!!! Say it ain't so (Shimano Electronic Shiftng System)

> Racing aside, this technology could be put to use for folks with > disabilities whereas the mechanics of "mechanical" shifting is difficult or > even impossible. > 2 pennies. > C Canter Well, unless the disabled person is racing, seems the NuVinci Continuously Variable Internal Hub is the bett

[RBW] Re: EEK!!! Say it ain't so (Shimano Electronic Shiftng System)

On Feb 17, 7:52 am, Mike wrote: > On Feb 17, 6:29 am, clyde canter wrote: > Anyone following the Tour of California? It's been amazing to hear > about how many "mechanicals" riders are having due to the weather (I > guess). These are bikes that are maintained by professional mechanics > and th

[RBW] Re: EEK!!! Say it ain't so (Shimano Electronic Shiftng System)

on 2/17/09 11:04 AM, Chris at fourf...@gmail.com wrote: > On Feb 17, 7:52 am, Mike wrote: >> On Feb 17, 6:29 am, clyde canter wrote: >> Anyone following the Tour of California? It's been amazing to hear >> about how many "mechanicals" riders are having due to the weather (I >> guess). These are

[RBW] Re: EEK!!! Say it ain't so (Shimano Electronic Shiftng System)

I'm with Jim on this one. I think higher price usually means parts are stronger and will last longer (though they may also weigh less). I used to believe the internet hype that the only difference between Ultegra and Dura Ace was weight, but after several Ultegra failures, I did some research. I

[RBW] Re: EEK!!! Say it ain't so (Shimano Electronic Shiftng System)

On Feb 17, 12:18 pm, wile wrote: > I'm with Jim on this one.  I think higher price usually means parts > are stronger and will last longer (though they may also weigh less). > I used to believe the internet hype that the only difference between > Ultegra and Dura Ace was weight, but after sever

[RBW] Re: EEK!!! Say it ain't so (Shimano Electronic Shiftng System)

Hmm, I didn't realize this...thanks Dylan! I'm really wanting to go with Sram on my cross bike anyway! :) On Feb 17, 12:18 pm, wile wrote: > I'm with Jim on this one.  I think higher price usually means parts > are stronger and will last longer (though they may also weigh less). > I used to beli

[RBW] Re: EEK!!! Say it ain't so (Shimano Electronic Shiftng System)

On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 12:04 PM, Chris wrote: > it's the same with bike stuff in my opnion, we buy > that certain frame or wheelset or component because we have the means > and it feels good. But, in the end that used Schwinn Varsity would > have done just fine for our needs. (Nice Varsity in th

[RBW] Re: EEK!!! Say it ain't so (Shimano Electronic Shiftng System)

Good idea Chris - I don't know much about SRAM. I am gradually switching over everthing to Campy so at least when individual parts break I can repair them. I think it's important to remember that component companies don't usually design each line independently. They design the VERY BEST for race

[RBW] Re: EEK!!! Say it ain't so (Shimano Electronic Shiftng System)

I technically don't qualify for this list anymore unless we're talking wool and pedals - the Riv gear I use on my recumbents - but I think this topic is general enough for me to opine on. I think anyone who uses a rechargeable lighting system shouldn't be too shy about electronic shifting. I feel

[RBW] Re: EEK!!! Say it ain't so (Shimano Electronic Shiftng System)

> Now I have recumbents with Sram grip-shifters. > Front and rear both shift precisely, but both take a pretty good grip > to operate. Surprised to read this. My Rohloff shifts so easy I sometimes manage it to shift accidently when not paying close attention on long rides. On Feb 17, 5:56 pm, J

[RBW] Re: EEK!!! Say it ain't so (Shimano Electronic Shiftng System)

On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 11:04 AM, Chris wrote: > > On Feb 17, 7:52 am, Mike wrote: > > On Feb 17, 6:29 am, clyde canter wrote: > > Anyone following the Tour of California? It's been amazing to hear > > about how many "mechanicals" riders are having due to the weather (I > > guess). These are bi

[RBW] Re: EEK!!! Say it ain't so (Shimano Electronic Shiftng System)

On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 8:18 PM, David Estes wrote: > On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 11:04 AM, Chris wrote: > >> >> On Feb 17, 7:52 am, Mike wrote: >> > On Feb 17, 6:29 am, clyde canter wrote: >> > Anyone following the Tour of California? It's been amazing to hear >> > about how many "mechanicals" ri

[RBW] Re: EEK!!! Say it ain't so (Shimano Electronic Shiftng System)

Quoting David Estes : > On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 11:04 AM, Chris wrote: > >> >> On Feb 17, 7:52 am, Mike wrote: >> > On Feb 17, 6:29 am, clyde canter wrote: >> > Anyone following the Tour of California? It's been amazing to hear >> > about how many "mechanicals" riders are having due to the wea

[RBW] Re: EEK!!! Say it ain't so (Shimano Electronic Shiftng System)

Ha! "Ordinary cyclists" call for the wife to bring the SUV, then drop the bike off at the bike shop. On Feb 18, 12:56 pm, palin...@his.com wrote: > Quoting David Estes : > > > > > On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 11:04 AM, Chris wrote: > > >> On Feb 17, 7:52 am, Mike wrote: > >> > On Feb 17, 6:29 am, cl

[RBW] Re: EEK!!! Say it ain't so (Shimano Electronic Shiftng System)

On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 2:36 PM, Joe Bernard wrote: > > Ha! "Ordinary cyclists" call for the wife to bring the SUV, then drop > the bike off at the bike shop. So *that's* what real racing demands: uxorial tech support! Patrick "yes, it's correct, I looked it up" Moore --~--~-~--~~-

[RBW] Re: EEK!!! Say it ain't so (Shimano Electronic Shiftng System)

Doesn't history tell us that Campagnola invented the quick release after his frustration with wing nuts? Perhaps some new spark of genius may occur if the riders did have to look after their own service work. "Let's see now, tonight I have to charge up the i-Pod, cell phone & shifter batteries