Re: [RE-wrenches] Are Stainless Steel Star Washers UL 467 compatable?

I recall Bill Brooks noting that the ILSOC ground lugs needed full contact of their back surface with the surface it was mounted to. He was recommending grinding off the oxide coating on the module around the screw hole to achieve the desired contact. Apparently putting a star washer between the

Re: [RE-wrenches] Are Stainless Steel Star Washers UL 467 compatable?

Dan if I recall from my younger days as a wrench [car], star washers work properly only when turned while being crushed. The rotation causes the tines to dig into both surfaces and literally gouge out metal to lock itself in place. Simply compressing a star washer between aluminum and a ground lu

[RE-wrenches] John Wiles

I have definitely learned a lot form reading Wiles, but I have to agree with William Miller. In a sidebar at the session of his I attended, he explained that he teaches the inspectors things that he has tried and failed to get into the NEC. He said that if the inspectors enforce the above the c

Re: [RE-wrenches] Batteries in parrallel Failure

I have been using buss bars for 12 years or so and about 8 years ago started to add a class “T” fuse to the connection at each buss bar in most systems. I have seen thermal runaway hit the industrial batteries I service. It would be best to avoid it in a battery box if at all possible. Do a

Re: [RE-wrenches] 2 volt Trojan RE series L16 Batteries

I'm with you Ray, If indeed there is high terminal temperature(s) then I think the issue is in the cables. And if they were soldered incorrectly it can actually cause them to have higher resistance than without soldering. ( was told by a engineer that the only true way to soldier a big lug is b

Re: [RE-wrenches] Batteries in parrallel Failure

At least with a breaker arrangement you could charge different strings separately which would help an otherwise bad situation. Also, I think the CB breakers would be adequate in this case. They have a 5000 AIC (too low for a HUP) but my specs on an AGM battery are showing 2300A short circuit. R

[RE-wrenches] John Wiles

The info originally posted to be able to contact John's boss and voice support for continued funding was incorrect. Below is the correct info. To those of you who feel inclined, please send an email to Andy Rosenthal. marco Andrew Rosenthal New Mexico State University 3705 Resear

Re: [RE-wrenches] 2 volt Trojan RE series L16 Batteries

Also, it sounds like you're losing almost 7 volts at times, which would correspond to 3 to 4 batteries in failure. I think that would be very unlikely, hence why I still vote for the connectors being at fault. Possibly, it may just be one of the main connectors, and as others pointed out alread

Re: [RE-wrenches] Batteries in parrallel Failure

Darryl and Wrenches, I wonder about the suggestion of using a Class T fuse. Here's why: Class T's are extremely fast on a dead short but is that what you have during a thermal runaway event? Class T's are also capable of many times their rated short circuit current for brief periods of time. Fo

Re: [RE-wrenches] 2 volt Trojan RE series L16 Batteries

It wouldn't cost much to replace the 5 interconnects, if only to eliminate the issues that Ray has mentioned from consideration. Also, Rich, you didn't mention if all of the terminals got hot, or only one/few/some. If the terminal contacts or the interconnects are a

Re: [RE-wrenches] John Wiles

If you had to disabuse a building official of an incorrect interpretation of the NEC regarding PV, it was most likely not the fault of Mr. Wiles.  It would be great if we held ourselves to the same standards we hold others.--- Original Message --- On 4/20/2011 2:21 PM William Miller wrote:

Re: [RE-wrenches] Batteries in parrallel Failure

At 21:18 -0600 19/4/11, Dan Fink wrote: He instinctively hit the main DC buss bar breakers, which was logical but didn't of course help the fire situation.and the result was that all Outback electronics from charge controllers to the 2 inverter set being fried from too high DC volt

[RE-wrenches] Are Stainless Steel Star Washers UL 467 compatable?

I'm struggling with where I came up with the notion that Nolox coated Stainless Steel Star washers  under copper drop-in ground lugs for grounding module frames are NEC compliant. Can't seem to lay me fingers on it in the 2011 NEC. I'm wondering if this might be yet another "Former Life" things. UL

Re: [RE-wrenches] 2 volt Trojan RE series L16 Batteries

Sounds like problem connections, if all the cells are an even 2.12 v. I wouldn't solder 4/0 connections, the solder can run back up the cable stranding, and make the cables too stiff to fully connect with the battery terminal. I had a battery terminal meltdown due to this. We quit using thick b

Re: [RE-wrenches] 2 volt Trojan RE series L16 Batteries

This is really an interesting thread. A few years back, I saw almost exactly the same thing happen with a PV-direct water pumping system, no batteries. PV Voc read fine, pump ran fine off a car battery and jumper cables, but pump controller/LCB acted haywirestatus lights said it was fine,

Re: [RE-wrenches] 2 volt Trojan RE series L16 Batteries

We used to "see" these cracks in Telco cells because of the clear case. I agree with Brian Rob Shappell From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Brian Teitelbaum Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 3:59 PM To: RE-wrenches Su

Re: [RE-wrenches] 2 volt Trojan RE series L16 Batteries

Funny story: we once had a brand new L-16 that came back to us from a customer who said that it was bad. We checked the voltage and it was 6.2VDC. We tried to run a small 6V motor with it to no avail. Checked the voltage again at 6.2VDC. Then we did the unthinkable: we shorted across the termina

Re: [RE-wrenches] 2 volt Trojan RE series L16 Batteries

Have you double checked all of the connections including at the inverter? This can be a smoking gun in a owner built system for sure! Sincerely, Chris Worcester Solar Wind Works NABCEP Certified PV Installer Phone: 530-582-4503 Fax: 530-582-4603 www.solarwindworks.com

Re: [RE-wrenches] 2 volt Trojan RE series L16 Batteries

Rich, It sounds like you've got a rotter or two. Given the short age of the pack, that's my suspicion. Try checking the individual battery voltages when under load and fairly well discharged. I've seen a new battery bank all show good SG and individual voltages while resting but one or more batt

[RE-wrenches] 2 volt Trojan RE series L16 Batteries

RE Wrenches My question regards a system (installed by homeowner / friend) where they recently upgraded their t105 battery bank to Trojan RE series L16 2 volt cells. The battery bank consists of 6 batteries in series for a 12 volt system. The interconnects are 12" long 4/0 cables with crimped an

Re: [RE-wrenches] Batteries in parrallel Failure

Does anyone know of a manufacturer or supplier of fused battery buss bars or battery string combiners (preferably using Class-T fuses) that are UL Listed for use in residential or commercial applications? Brian Teitelbaum AEE Solar From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wre

Re: [RE-wrenches] Batteries in parrallel Failure

What? No royalties? Damn...(but thanks for the props) Sorry I misunderstood what you meant. My installs of buss bars back in the day had cable pairs of the same length but different pairs could be of different lengths with the consideration being bank construction. I’d use slightly oversize

Re: [RE-wrenches] Batteries in parrallel Failure

While I think that any system with more than three parallel battery stings is a FUBAR waiting to happen, I agree with OC devices on all the strings and using the bussbar technique. I would certainly go with Class T fuses rather than CBs as the Class T is current-limiting and boy do we have curre

Re: [RE-wrenches] Batteries in parrallel Failure

Tom; That's exactly what Daryl and I were suggesting: all strings paralleled to a central combiner box with breakers on each series string. The only thing I left out was that each cable set should be the same length ( which Daryl was already suggesting). You need to reread what we were talking a

Re: [RE-wrenches] John Wiles

Wrenches, I very much support the position that Mr. Wiles held ( exact title I don't know)however I would like to see someone new take over. Jay Peltz Power On Apr 20, 2011, at 7:21 AM, William Miller wrote: > Friends: > > I have met Mr. Wiles and I know him to be intelligent, passionate

Re: [RE-wrenches] Batteries in parrallel Failure

HI Dan, I"m really curious about what the CC saw. Can you tell us, was it hydro, pv or wind and what was the voc? jay peltz power On Apr 19, 2011, at 8:18 PM, Dan Fink wrote: > We almost had a house fire in the neighborhood a couple months ago from a > parallel battery bank failurean agi

Re: [RE-wrenches] John Wiles

Friends: I have met Mr. Wiles and I know him to be intelligent, passionate and a nice person. I do not always agree with Mr. Wiles' advice. He is widely read in the industry, which is not always a good thing. I have had to waste valuable time disabusing building officials of points of view

Re: [RE-wrenches] John Wiles

When I was just starting out in PV, John always answered my questions. If anything, a quick email supporting funding is a good idea. Jesse Sent from my iPhone On Apr 20, 2011, at 12:58 AM, "Marco Mangelsdorf" wrote: > I know that Michael Welch does not like when we Wrenches goes down the r

Re: [RE-wrenches] John Wiles

I don't know anyone in the industry, more authoritative and active in educating installers than John. I've depended on his as the last word on many, many issues. If his funding is in jeopardy, we collectively would be negligent not to argue on his behalf. Bill Dorsett Sunwrights PV Manhattan

Re: [RE-wrenches] wrenches] web sites for products

I just had to jump in when Dan Mentioned Midnite Solar's Battery capacity meter. A great product. I put one on my electric golf cart and can now tell from 50 feet away that the batteries are ready to go. Robin, I did the ultimate test. The golf cart has been outside all winter and at times

Re: [RE-wrenches] John Wiles

For what it's worth, I think supporting continued funding of John Wiles is consistent with the intent of this list serve. It seems that part of the mission of this list serve is the installation of NEC compliant solar electric systems. Mr. Wiles has provided feedback to many, including me, that has