On Wednesday, May 28, 2014 3:31:08 PM UTC-7, Paul-Olivier Dehaye wrote:
>
> Again, in the big wave of emails, this one also got misdirected:
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> I am looking for people who want to help me, in one way or another, bring
> hundreds of new first time contributors to sage. If I do
Okay here's where I think we are, and my 2 cents in the matter.
Simon wants to have a database which stores the map information which is
constructed by the decorator @combinatorial_map in order to not have it
cause any slowdowns. The question is, "how to do this?"
Here's my 2 cents of a solutio
On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 3:56 PM, Paul-Olivier Dehaye
wrote:
> Out of my confused state after a long day:
> I think I still want sage to be a " free open source alternative ", and its
> primary audience to be typical users of the Ma's. But the Ma's have indeed
> evolved since 2005. Maybe it might b
On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 12:59 PM, Volker Braun wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 28, 2014 5:35:18 PM UTC+1, Nils Bruin wrote:
>>>
>>> Non-underscore attributes implement a mutable interface.
>>
>> I wasn't aware of that convention. Is it documented somewhere, with
>> rationale?
>
>
> Python provides @pro
Out of my confused state after a long day:
I think I still want sage to be a " free open source alternative ", and its
primary audience to be typical users of the Ma's. But the Ma's have indeed
evolved since 2005. Maybe it might be worth, as a start, listing how they
have changed? The goal of the e
On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 3:30 PM, Paul-Olivier Dehaye
wrote:
> Again, in the big wave of emails, this one also got misdirected:
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> I am looking for people who want to help me, in one way or another, bring
> hundreds of new first time contributors to sage. If I do not find enough
>
On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 3:29 PM, Paul-Olivier Dehaye
wrote:
> In the big wave of emails exchanged today, I sent this one, by accident to
> the wrong mailing list. I recopy it below:
>
> When I went to pycon, the most important thing I learned is the importance
> of a diverse community for the deve
Again, in the big wave of emails, this one also got misdirected:
Hi everyone,
I am looking for people who want to help me, in one way or another, bring
hundreds of new first time contributors to sage. If I do not find enough
partners, I will look for other more suitable python-based projects.
Th
In the big wave of emails exchanged today, I sent this one, by accident to
the wrong mailing list. I recopy it below:
When I went to pycon, the most important thing I learned is the importance
of a diverse community for the development of python. This I learned from
the top, the board of the Pytho
On 2014-05-28, Dima Pasechnik wrote:
> On 2014-05-28, Volker Braun wrote:
>> This is multiprocessing.pool waiting for children to finish.
> To finish, or to start?
>
>> The question is what happened to the children.
> They are seemingly alive, but don't do anything at all, according to
> dtruss
I think an argument that this function is badly named is very sensible.
Maybe a better name would be "to_component_sizes". Why not just try
changing the name, and see how much work that is for the findstat group to
adapt. It might be that this does not want to be named, after all, and that
simply a
On Wednesday, May 28, 2014 5:35:18 PM UTC+1, Nils Bruin wrote:
>
> Non-underscore attributes implement a mutable interface.
>>
> I wasn't aware of that convention. Is it documented somewhere, with
> rationale?
>
Python provides @property and @foo.setter to make this convention work
safely, so cl
Yo !
> Currently that ticket's description is in complete
> contradiction to what you seem to describe on the mailing list (which
seems
> more sensible to me). In particular the title of the ticket is "Rename"
> while the last line says "remove".
Not my doing. When I posted my last comment on thi
os.path.abspath('.') from your video was what I was looking for thanks and
disregard the previous long winded reply with error messages etc.
-Steve
On 5/28/2014 8:57 AM, William Stein wrote:
> On Tue, May 27, 2014 at 1:13 PM, Stephen Kauffman
> wrote:
>> Trying to run a file in a worksheet in s
At some point we will need a summary, or to use something better than
mailing lists to discuss this.
Paul
Paul-Olivier Dehaye
SNF Professor of Mathematics
University of Zurich
skype: lokami_lokami (preferred)
phone: +41 76 407 57 96
chat: pauloliv...@gmail.com
twitter: podehaye
freenode irc: pdeha
On Wednesday, May 28, 2014 10:51:10 AM UTC-7, vdelecroix wrote:
> For me, it would makes sense on parents directly
> {{{
> sage: Permutations().known_maps_to(Partitions())
> [...]
> }}}
> And in the methods known_maps_to and known_maps_from there should be
> pointer on how to feed the databa
> - Nathann is arguing that no empty methods/classes should be present.
I think he is, and add Vincent too (cf. previous email of his).
Absolutely noone wants unefficient code. If there is a clear way to
improve, let's do it. But burden is on all of us.
To be clear, I want to have this semantic
@Nathann, Simon:
There is certainly a lot of misunderstandings between all of us. Both ways.
The discussion was started because of a suggestion, turned into a ticket
written by Nathann. Currently that ticket's description is in complete
contradiction to what you seem to describe on the mailing lis
Hi Vincent
The wikipedia definition of flaming has the words "hostile" and
"insulting". I have certainly been hostile towards Nathann, and have
explicitly explained to him early on why he was wrong and why I was being
hostile. It is part of academic discourse to have heated discussions,
because we
Hi,
Thanks. I have a project in SageMathCloud titled SpaceTime. I created a
directory under this project named 2014-05-27-151639 and uploaded files
spalgebra.sagews and SPexample5.sage. When I click on the directory in the
cloud I see a house icon followed by a forward slash followed by
2014-0
Hello !!!
> Is he? Sorry, then this is a point where Nathann and I do not agree.
I don't even know what I think anymore. With the turn that events take, I
think I don't even need to think anymore. I think that I will think what
you think I think, it is much easier for me.
> find abstract methods
On 2014-05-28, Stephen Doty wrote:
> I am trying to install sage-6.2 from source on a Macbook Air (Mid 2011)
> running OSX 10.9.3. Xcode is installed and I believe up to date. I get the
are Command Line Tools installed? They are needed.
(check out Command Line Tools in Xcode's Help)
--
You re
On 2014-05-28, Volker Braun wrote:
> This is multiprocessing.pool waiting for children to finish.
To finish, or to start?
> The question is what happened to the children.
They are seemingly alive, but don't do anything at all, according to
dtruss.
The main process occupies over 100Mb of RAM,
Hi Vivianne,
2014-05-28 19:32 UTC+02:00, Viviane Pons :
> I think we all agree on this idea now (that the decorator should not wrap
> the method), so there is no point in keeping the argument.
>
> Still, I have asked a few questions on which I'd like you guys opinions:
>
> - what's the best way to
I think we all agree on this idea now (that the decorator should not wrap
the method), so there is no point in keeping the argument.
Still, I have asked a few questions on which I'd like you guys opinions:
- what's the best way to store this information? Nathan and Simon mentioned
database, would
I am trying to install sage-6.2 from source on a Macbook Air (Mid 2011)
running OSX 10.9.3. Xcode is installed and I believe up to date. I get the
following error message:
Host system:
Darwin mac 13.2.0 Darwin Kernel Version 13.2.0: Thu Apr 17 23:03:13 PDT
2014; root:xnu-2422.100.13~1/RELEASE_
Some comments:
By not hiding attributes (not using underscores like self._manifold) you
implement a mutable interface, essentially inviting users to change them.
This of course will generally not work (e.g. reach into ZeroScalarField and
making it non-zero). It also prevents you from ever using
Yo !
> I agree 100% with your summary, Simon, except that
> 1) Nathann will have to say himself whether he agrees or not;
I think that the first time I said it was on the 20/6/2013 (one year ago):
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sage-devel/SnPfidRM9j8/u7f4X-cLlrsJ
Quote : "Well, just returning t
Hi Paul,
2014-05-28 17:42 UTC+02:00, Paul-Olivier Dehaye
:
> I agree 100% with your summary, Simon, except that
> 1) Nathann will have to say himself whether he agrees or not;
Please at some point stop the flame.
> 2) A decision should be made whether it is valid to introduce lots of empty
> met
Ralf Stephan wrote:
How do you exclude out of memory?
Having more than 16 GB of free memory available?
-leif
On SMC for 12 hours now, there are no
more doc builds being stuck, but also no more out-of-memory which I got
yesterday.
On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 5:56 PM, Volker Braun mailto:vbraun
On Wednesday, May 28, 2014 7:23:20 AM UTC-7, Volker Braun wrote:
>
> Non-underscore attributes implement a mutable interface.
>
I wasn't aware of that convention. Is it documented somewhere, with
rationale?
I've indeed seen "constant" instance attributes accessed via accessors and
was aware of t
How do you exclude out of memory? On SMC for 12 hours now, there are no
more doc builds being stuck, but also no more out-of-memory which I got
yesterday.
On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 5:56 PM, Volker Braun wrote:
> This is multiprocessing.pool waiting for children to finish. The question
> is what h
This is multiprocessing.pool waiting for children to finish. The question
is what happened to the children.
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I agree 100% with your summary, Simon, except that
1) Nathann will have to say himself whether he agrees or not;
2) A decision should be made whether it is valid to introduce lots of empty
methods and classes simply for the semantic decorators that will be added.
Paul
Paul-Olivier Dehaye
SNF Pro
Two comments:
- Nathann is arguing that no empty methods/classes should be present.
Which means to me that he doesn t see the value of semantic information in
itself
- They are not building a database. They are putting tags in the code that
allow them at runtime to build something that amounts to
Hi Nicolas,
On 2014-05-28, Nicolas M. Thiery wrote:
> So far, the two categories have not been merged for a stupid
> bootstrapping reason: to construct Modules(ZZ), we need to construct
> ZZ. To construct ZZ, an abelian group, we need to construct the
> category CommutativeAdditiveGroups(). So if
On 2014-05-28, Travis Scrimshaw wrote:
> I was able to get it to work again (at least with 6.3.beta1) by running
> "make distclean && make doc-clean && make".
yes, I mentioned that "make distclean..." does fix things,
but this is not what one wants to do, IMHO, unless you work on a
100-core mons
On 2014-05-28, Volker Braun wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 28, 2014 1:28:58 PM UTC+1, leif wrote:
>>
>> > Strace the hanging process?
>>
>> Already did that; the problem is that it's busy waiting (i.e., polling).
>> Each time I kill the process it is waiting for [...]
>
>
> So whats that process d
On Tue, May 27, 2014 at 09:14:03PM +0200, Vincent Delecroix wrote:
> A module over ZZ is the same thing as an Abelian group. Why do we have
> two distinct categories ?
This issue is mentioned on http://trac.sagemath.org/wiki/CategoriesRoadMap.
So far, the two categories have not been merged for a
Christian's point is key. The absolute hardest problem to solve is where to
anchor semantic information so that others can contribute to it easily,
because his project requires lots of microcontributions (cf. Nielsen's
Reinventing Discovery)
Right now, by lack of a better place, it is put in sage.
> Ceterum censeo: Please do not put too much semantic into an attribute of
> the map. It will be a burden for the map, will cost memory, and will be
> difficult to search.
I would personally really like to get semantic information about maps
implemented in Sage. This starts with automated concaten
At some point, someone(s) should sit down and make all of the old parents
into the new Parent class. This might have to be done all at once (at least
the one time I tried to change homset IIRC) and will likely take a full day
plus.
Best,
Travis
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You received this message because you are sub
Thank you for these comments. I'll modify the code accordingly!
Eric.
Le mercredi 28 mai 2014 16:23:20 UTC+2, Volker Braun a écrit :
>
> Some comments:
>
> Non-underscore attributes implement a mutable interface. You are inviting
> your users to modify field.tensor_type = (1,2), which will almo
I was able to get it to work again (at least with 6.3.beta1) by running
"make distclean && make doc-clean && make".
Best,
Travis
On Wednesday, May 28, 2014 6:48:13 AM UTC-7, leif wrote:
>
> Volker Braun wrote:
> > On Wednesday, May 28, 2014 1:28:58 PM UTC+1, leif wrote:
> >
> > > Strace
Some comments:
Non-underscore attributes implement a mutable interface. You are inviting
your users to modify field.tensor_type = (1,2), which will almost certanly
lead to inconsistent objects. In Sage, the convention is generally to use
underscore attributes and ensure immutability through acc
Hi!
On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 11:54:22AM +0200, Vincent Delecroix wrote:
> Hi Christian,
>
> 2014-05-28 11:32 UTC+02:00, Christian Stump :
> >> It seems that actually nobody read my initial post on that thread... so
> >> let me repeat
> >
> > I did -- but didn't really have any qualified co
Volker Braun wrote:
On Wednesday, May 28, 2014 1:28:58 PM UTC+1, leif wrote:
> Strace the hanging process?
Already did that; the problem is that it's busy waiting (i.e.,
polling).
Each time I kill the process it is waiting for [...]
So whats that process doing?
As mentio
Vincent I had read your post but I hadn't understood that you wanted
something like this. This Map class seems a really good idea to me, it
looks like our combinatorial map class that we use to wrap the methods but
improved.
After this discussion, the way I would see things would be:
* having a p
> The second step would be to think how to add semantic to the map. Part
> of is already managed by the axioms/categories (for example a Morphism
> between GradedSets preserve the grading). But there is nothing for
> injectivity/surjectivity or more subtle properties.
Thanks for the clarification!
On Wednesday, May 28, 2014 1:28:58 PM UTC+1, leif wrote:
>
> > Strace the hanging process?
>
> Already did that; the problem is that it's busy waiting (i.e., polling).
> Each time I kill the process it is waiting for [...]
So whats that process doing? "strace -ff" and then sort out which
sub
On Wednesday, 28 May 2014 13:56:16 UTC+1, leif wrote:
>
> leif wrote:
> > Volker Braun wrote:
> >> Is there an error further up in the log?
> >
> > Only the usual GAP foo ("cannot extend the workspace further" or
> > something like that).
> >
> >> Strace the hanging process?
> >
> > Alre
On Tue, May 27, 2014 at 1:13 PM, Stephen Kauffman
wrote:
> Trying to run a file in a worksheet in sagemathcloud with
>
> load('./2014-05-27-151639/SPexample5.sage')
>
> but every (seemingly reasonable) path I try bombs with file not found
>
> the folder 2014-05-27-151639 is in sagemathcloud and th
This is very very easy on you Don't you feel any responsibility at all
> for what you put into Sage ? We had a conversation one year ago about ways
> to fix that, one of which seems to suit you as you said on sage-devel just
> yesterday. And when several persons tell you that your design has a
leif wrote:
Volker Braun wrote:
Is there an error further up in the log?
Only the usual GAP foo ("cannot extend the workspace further" or
something like that).
Strace the hanging process?
Already did that; the problem is that it's busy waiting (i.e., polling).
Each time I kill the proces
Volker Braun wrote:
Is there an error further up in the log?
Only the usual GAP foo ("cannot extend the workspace further" or
something like that).
Strace the hanging process?
Already did that; the problem is that it's busy waiting (i.e., polling).
Each time I kill the process it is wai
Volker Braun wrote:
Is there an error further up in the log? Strace the hanging proces
Sometimes you need to run "sage -sync-build".
On Tuesday, May 27, 2014 11:22:06 PM UTC+1, Dima Pasechnik wrote:
Is there anything short of "make distclean && make" to fix the stuck
docbuild:
Hi Ivan!
thanks for your rapid reply! I only got to the problematic computer
today. So:
%colors NoColor
>
works (which is wonderful!), but
https://bitbucket.org/gvol/sage-mode/downloads/sage_mode-0.11.spkg
doesn't :-(
Martin
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the
Vincent, I did read your email, which is very good. Thank you for posting.
Unfortunately it is too focused for my taste. I would like to solve the
generic problem of how to put in semantic information in sage first. Many
might say let's solve one problem first, but in my mind it is already three
ti
On Wednesday, May 28, 2014 1:59:17 AM UTC+1, John H Palmieri wrote:
>
> I think that if you do "sage -i git_trac", it should install it for you.
>
Works but will give you an older version. It should work, but if you run
into problems you should try the newest version first. Also, it'll be
erase
In principle it could work for other projects, all it assumes is git and a
trac install with xmlrpc enabled and a few custom trac fields (namely
"Branch" and "Commit").
On Wednesday, May 28, 2014 6:57:04 AM UTC+1, Snark wrote:
>
> > https://github.com/sagemath/git-trac-command
> >
> > (It's
Is there an error further up in the log? Strace the hanging process?
Sometimes you need to run "sage -sync-build".
On Tuesday, May 27, 2014 11:22:06 PM UTC+1, Dima Pasechnik wrote:
>
> Is there anything short of "make distclean && make" to fix the stuck
> docbuild:
>
> By "stuck" I mean tha
Hi Andrew,
On 2014-05-28, R. Andrew Ohana wrote:
> For instance, what is the recommended class I should inherit from for my
> parent class? I see at the top of sage.rings.rings, that it is not
> recommended that I inherit from the Ring class anymore (maybe?),
REALLY? Why is that?
Personally, I
Hi Christian,
2014-05-28 11:32 UTC+02:00, Christian Stump :
>> It seems that actually nobody read my initial post on that thread... so
>> let me repeat
>
> I did -- but didn't really have any qualified contribution...
>
>> But the semantic has to be implemented at the level of maps not at the
>> l
Hi Nathann,
On 2014-05-27, Nathann Cohen wrote:
> I do not understand much about categories, but if we implement
> multiplication by a positive integer for semigroups and multiplication by a
> negative integer for semigroup with inverse, won't this automatically give
> a ZZ-Module structure to
It happens here on SageMathCloud which is 3.13.0-24-generic #46-Ubuntu
x86_64
but not OpenSuSE-12.3
on
AMD, at least so far.
I am not sure if it's connected to Out of
Memory errors that I'm seeing too recently on SMC.
On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 11:09 AM, Dima Pasechnik wrote:
> On Wednesday,
> It seems that actually nobody read my initial post on that thread... so let
> me repeat
I did -- but didn't really have any qualified contribution...
> But the semantic has to be implemented at the level of maps not at the level
> of methods.
could you explain what you mean there (maybe usin
It seems that actually nobody read my initial post on that thread...
so let me repeat
There are two disjoint tasks:
- add semantic to Map and Morphism (Sage)
- gather the list of meaningful maps (Sage/FindStat)
First of all, most of us agree that we need more semantic at the level
of maps. Note
On Wednesday, 28 May 2014 01:12:01 UTC+1, leif wrote:
>
> Dima Pasechnik wrote:
> > Is there anything short of "make distclean && make" to fix the stuck
> > docbuild:
> >
> > By "stuck" I mean that I run make and
> >
> > the output (and logs/dochtml.log) getting stuck at
> >
> > [histo
> Just to make this statement more precise: it will not be possible within the
> next two years if Mmarco relies on your availability for this (there is no
> blame in that statement, it's just a clarification that others might be
> willing to work on this problem).
It is not a problem -- it's
> Mathematically that is exactly right, there is no difference between
> "Z-module" and "abelian group" just as there is none between
> (commutative) "Z-algebra" and "ring". We know this, but the point was
> whether the two things could or should be distinguished in Sage.
Well, if the ticket give
On 28 May 2014 00:51, Nathann Cohen wrote:
> Could this be related ?
>
> http://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/16384
>
> I do not understand much about categories, but if we implement
> multiplication by a positive integer for semigroups and multiplication by a
> negative integer for semigroup with inve
>
> --> It will not be possible (say within the next two years, except the
> unlikely event that I will a lottery without participating, and then
> spend some money to hire a professional programmer) to only query the
> statistics data, and do the computations within your own Sage.
Just to make t
Hi Mmarco,
This is a functionality many of us would want too. The question that is
unclear is how to implement it in the best way. What Nathann refers to as
"some kind of protocol to transfer the combinatorial objects" is a very
hard problem. Fortunately, many people are starting to realise that th
> Would it be possible to include the findstat functionality in sage? That is,
> i have a bunch of pairs (permutation, number), then call the function
> findtsta on them, and get a list of possible ways that the numbers can me
> computed from the permutations. All inside sage, without need to go to
Since you ask, here is a thread where you have insulted me repeatedly:
http://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/16403
Others might think I have asked for it, but that's a different question,
and we can have that debate too if you want. But if we are going to have
that debate, I would ask that you first send
> Would it be possible to include the findstat functionality in sage?
It is possible to write the code, and desirable. As the Sage is
open-source, you are also welcome to give it a try if you need the feature.
Sage already queries the OEIS, though for FindStat you will probably have
to design some
Yo !
> I find it quite difficult now to follow this thread, I see the answer to
some emails that are not even in the thread...
This is because it was sent to both sage-devel and sage-combinat. After a
while somebody anwers to only one group and mess follows.
> Anyway, I just want to answer to th
A slightly unrelated problem:
Would it be possible to include the findstat functionality in sage? That
is, i have a bunch of pairs (permutation, number), then call the function
findtsta on them, and get a list of possible ways that the numbers can me
computed from the permutations. All inside s
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