Thanks Cecil, this is a good response for the issue. I will save it for
reference and encourage others to do the same.
PJ
-Original Message-
From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Sprinkler
Academy - C Bilbo
Thanks Cecil but I am only referring to existing homes and buildings. I know
what to do with any new stuff. Just remember the mistakes Central made and
what it cost them with the recalls. I see this as the same thing. NFPA has
made a big mistake and they just get to walk away?
Joe Burtell
Joe,
I don't understand the antipathy towards NFPA. You might as well blame
ICC for the Station Nightclub fire since they (ICC) didn't stop people
from doing things they weren't supposed to do. You mentioned an
incident in 2001. Was this the first time such aching happened? If so
would you blame
We have an FM insured customer for whom we are flow testing their PRVs. FM is
requiring a official form to recoed the data. We do not know of such a form.
Anybody familiar with it?
C. Burton Ford
Nicet Certified
Sprinkler III
Water Based Inspections I
NFPA Certified Fire Protection Specialist
Joe,
I don't see the NFPA as walking away. I see them as making responsible moves
to protect people. As soon as they were aware of an issue that could impact
someone's life safety they acted.
We have long known that antifreeze could initially increase the Heat Release
Rate of a fire.
While in Vegas for the City Center project, we made our own form similar to
the attached link (page 3).
http://www.seattle.gov/fire/fmo/confidenceTesting/CTForms/CTF%20-%2004%20Con
fidence%20Test%20Standpipe.pdf
I have not heard of an official form for this type of thing...yet.
-Original
The Contractor's Material and Test Certificate for Aboveground Piping
in NFPA 13 has a section for testing the pressure reducing valves, take
a look. I don't think there is an official form maybe you can make
your own with the info from the above mentioned certificate.
George Macris,Plans
Has anyone looked at the manufactures guidelines before panicking on the
northern extremes of cold? The most common antifreeze premix that we use is
Firefighter PG premix. This to my knowledge is perfectly acceptable to the new
standard. When tested by a hydrometer, this tests to -15 degrees
Matthew,
I believe there is a bit of a problem with the product you mentioned.
In looking at their literature it suggests that a 40% concentration of
their additive solution (which is no longer allowed) will yield
protection to around -6 degrees. NFPA's new TIA limits the
concentration of
Very true but NFPA to my knowledge has not told us which temperature to use.
I'd also suggest you get some dry ice and cool some down to the ice point. It
becomes the consistency of a milk shake. It may not break the pipe but I have
my doubts about how long it takes to clear out and allow
And when ice forms there will be no sprinkler flow even though the pipe may
not burst.
Arthur Tiroly
ATCO Fire Protection Design
Tiroly and Associates
216-621-8899
216-570-7030 Cell
WWW.ATCOfirepro.com http://www.atcofirepro.com/
_
From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org
With the new TIA, is antifreeze allowed in dwelling units at these lower
concentrations?
Trying to settle a discussion.
Travis Mack, SET
MFP Design, LLC
www.mfpdesign.com
Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®
-Original Message-
From: Art Tiroly atir...@atcofirepro.com
Do tanks for 13R systems need to meet the requirements of NFPA 22?
Specifically, is an automatic fill system required?
Todd G. Williams, PE
Fire Protection Design/Consulting
Stonington, CT
860.535.2080
www.fpdc.com
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Sprinklerforum mailing list
Yes, but in a fire condition the temprature is no longer below freezing if the
head activates...
Matthew Mueller
Metropolitan Fire Protection
175 Gordon St
Elk Grove Village
Illinois, 60007
P 847.758.9820
F 847.758.9822
C 847.602.3576
-Original Message-
From: Art Tiroly
Except for all the pipe that is not near the head, and besides if we're
counting on the fire to thaw the piping, we got problems!
Bob
-Original Message-
From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Matt Mueller
Sent:
Alright then, in order to get a better handle on this I just opened a brand new
container of premixed PG to test. The container is clearly marked with 0
degrees freeze point, -15 degrees flow, (I knew I had seen that figure
somewhere) and -50 burst point.
It tested to -7 freeze point and
Well, EVENTUALLY all the pipe will thaw. If you want to prevent flashover in
the room of origin, however, and you have 150' of attic feed main frozen,
you've got dead guys without bikes.
And Joey, Central didn't spend that much on the Orings, they sidestepped and
sold to tyco. Gross
- Original Message -
From: Joe Burtell j...@burtellfire.com
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Sent: Fri Mar 18 10:33:34 2011
Subject: RE: antifreeze solutions
Thanks Cecil but I am only referring to existing homes and buildings. I know
what to do with
I'm rehabilitating an 1947 Grinnell E-2 and a 1954 Automatic Suprotex
for display purposes. To do them justice I need a one air and one
water old style gauges for the Grinnell, and one water for the
Automatic, working or not. Of course if they're marked Grinnell and
Automatic that would be best. I
I don't believe so. NFPA 13R (07ed)6.6.3(3) is the only section that
references NFPA 22 and it is for a pressure tank.
6.6.3(4)calls for A stored water supply with an automatically operated
pump as a valid water supply.
Also, the appendix notes that when the tank is used for both domestic
and
No, 13R tanks don't need to be #22 ones, pump DOES need to be #20.
At least if a fire pump is provided, it has to be per 20...
Someone here pointed out that looks like a LOT more wiggle room than any of us
had read into it previously.
Better way if possible on dual purpose tanks is to come
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