NFPA Journal

Memo to the Editor, NFPA Journal: Kudos on the minimalist approach to this month's White Album homage and the probing question of why residential sprinklers aren't yet being installed in all homes.However, it should be noted that the use of a standard response spray sprinkler to illustrate

Re: Move noisy air compressor?

as required by NFPA 25 Roland Huggins, PE - VP Engineering American Fire Sprinkler Assn. --- Fire Sprinklers Saves Lives Dallas, TX http://www.firesprinkler.org > On Oct 31, 2016, at 10:29 AM, craig.pr...@ch2m.com wrote: > > If the system is not leak

RE: One weird cross connected system

What others said. I saw one of these systems that was still in-service about 8 years ago. I believe in was a GSA property in West Baltimore. Lots of issues and the discussion that was heard is that it was being replaced due to on-going issues. John August Denhardt, P.E. Strickland Fire Prote

RE: nfpa 13 2016 errors

My 2010 edition has it correct. Richard Carr, SET Branch Manager Cox Fire Protection, Inc 6555 Grace Lane. Jacksonville, Fl. 32205 rc...@coxfire.com 904-781-8227 From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Rocci Cetani 3 Sent: Monday, October 31, 201

RE: One weird cross connected system

They were efficient from the standpoint that you could add a complement of piping to the sprinkler system and eliminate the entire two-pipe system to and from the CT for heating and cooling. There were several issues however: The heat pump throttling valves selected by the holder of the desig

RE: One weird cross connected system

They were cost effective in that you utilized a single piping network to accomplish the work of two systems. It’s a closed loop hydronic system with sprinklers. Craig L. Prahl Fire Protection Group Lead/SME CH2M 200 Verdae Blvd. Greenville, SC 29607 Direct - 864.920.7540 Fax - 864.920.7129 CH

RE: One weird cross connected system

Original poster stated they couldn’t’ figure out why the fire pumps didn’t go off on a regular basis. Craig L. Prahl Fire Protection Group Lead/SME CH2M 200 Verdae Blvd. Greenville, SC 29607 Direct - 864.920.7540 Fax - 864.920.7129 CH2MHILL Extension 77540 craig.pr...@ch2m.com From: Sprinkle

Re: Move noisy air compressor?

I had one once that fed a system it a six car garage and it came on every 50-52 hours, In every three week cycle it would come on every other night during sleeping hours for about a week. There was a woman who's bed was just above it and she could hear the vibration when in bed. Not really a leakag

Re: One weird cross connected system

There is a pump on the system Todd G Williams, PE Fire Protection Design/Consulting Stonington, CT 860-608-4559 On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 1:42 PM, rongreenman . wrote: Right. Circulating water in the heating/cooling portion that uses the same piping. How did fire pumps come up? On Mon, Oct 31, 20

Re: One weird cross connected system

Right. Circulating water in the heating/cooling portion that uses the same piping. How did fire pumps come up? On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 10:27 AM, wrote: > There is no consumption of water, hence no reason for the fire pump to be > engaged. The system circulates water throughout. NFPA 13, 2016,

RE: Move noisy air compressor?

If the system is not leaking, the compressor shouldn’t be running very often at all. So if it’s running enough to create a noise complaint I think I’d be doing some investigation into the integrity of the piping system. Craig L. Prahl Fire Protection Group Lead/SME CH2M 200 Verdae Blvd. Greenv

RE: One weird cross connected system

There is no consumption of water, hence no reason for the fire pump to be engaged. The system circulates water throughout. NFPA 13, 2016, 3.4.2. There is still mention of these systems in NFPA 13, 2016, “circulating Closed Loop Systems, 25.3. See Figure 23.1.5(a) for a sample layout of such a

Re: One weird cross connected system

It was in 13 for a while Bill. I have 13s going back to seventies but not with readily available today. Bronze, brass, copper (heat exchangers), black steel and galvanized steel, all with warm, oxygenated, municipal water moving thru them. Doesn't sound like a good combination. On Mon, Oct 31, 201

RE: One weird cross connected system

Does this sound familiar?? I remember this from my days at GSA in the late 1970's. It was presented by Mr. Meckler as a sprinkler system approach for the old post office building in D.C. (currently Trump's hotel). We rejected the idea for a number of reasons - we couldn't figure out how it would

Re: Move noisy air compressor?

There is no requirement about distance, nor is a compressor even required. Air maintenance is required in some form (manually or automatically from a compressor, nitrogen generator, compressed air bottle, ...?) and there needs to be a method that replenishes the system from 0 psig to it's required

Re: One weird cross connected system

I did a few of these back in the late 80's / early 90's. I haven't seen one since. Honestly i can't recall what was done and different. As Steve said, I believe if they were properly designed and maintained they should be fine. Travis Mack, SET MFP Design, LLC "Follow" us on Facebook: https:

Re: One weird cross connected system

I've seen two and both had drops full of a compacted sand-like material. On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 10:01 AM, Steve Leyton wrote: > As Ron said, it was in service as a “Tri-Water” system. I designed > several, including what I think are the only two high-rise ones ever built > in the country.C

RE: One weird cross connected system

As Ron said, it was in service as a "Tri-Water" system. I designed several, including what I think are the only two high-rise ones ever built in the country.Call if questions, but know that it's not "illegal" to take them out of service for HVAC but maintain as sprinkler-only. There are t

Re: One weird cross connected system

Also known as tri-water. See if there are heat exchangers off the the mains or cross mains. On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 4:24 AM, Richard Carr wrote: > Sounds like a multi-use system, they were common in the 80’s. > > > > Richard Carr, SET > > Branch Manager > > Cox Fire Protection, Inc > > 6555 Grac

nfpa 13 2016 errors

Ch. 15 has an error on figure 15.2.2.1 (decision tree). It directs you to table 15.2.6 (a) or (b) which doesn't exist. Should be table 15.2.2.5 (a) or (b) Rocci Cetani III, CET Designer Water-Based Fire Protections Systems Layout, Nicet Level III Northern California Fire Protection Serv

Re: Move noisy air compressor?

How often is the compressor running that the customer is complaining? Could you have another problem? M Marvi On 10/30/2016 11:47 PM, Douglas Hicks wrote: A customer has received complaints about the air compressor being too noisy. The compressor is bolted t

RE: Move noisy air compressor?

There are also 'extra quiet' compressors available. Matt Grisé PE*, LEED AP, NICET II Vice President - New Construction Alliance Fire Protection 130 w 9th Ave. North Kansas City, MO 64116 *Licensed in KS & MO 913.888.0647 ph 913.888.0618 f 913.526.7443 cell www. AFPsprink.com From: Sprinklerfo

Re: Move noisy air compressor?

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Re: Lost coupon

For city folks. *Cow magnets* are popular with dairy farmers and veterinarians to help prevent Hardware Disease in *cattle*. While grazing, *cows* eat everything from grass and dirt to nails, staples and bits of bailing wire On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 2:30 AM, Bruce Verhei wrote: > The cows have c

RE: Antifreeze loops

In my opinion, based upon what you’ve written, they would be better off finding the alternative method they’ll need in six years when antifreeze is no longer a viable option. The leaking sprinklers are a symptom, the 11˚F minimum is a problem, the six years left for antifreeze is a concern. To

RE: One weird cross connected system

Sounds like a multi-use system, they were common in the 80's. Richard Carr, SET Branch Manager Cox Fire Protection, Inc 6555 Grace Lane. Jacksonville, Fl. 32205 rc...@coxfire.com 904-781-8227 From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Todd Williams

One weird cross connected system

I was at a location last Friday that had one of the strangest systems I have seen. This is a 3 story office/retail space with underground parking garages. The upper floors are wet and the garages dry. The sprinkler system on the upper floor has several connections to feed mechanical equipment (

Re: Lost coupon

The cows have come home and we've answered the great PEX debate of 2016 all in one post. Best, Bruce Verhei > On Oct 31, 2016, at 01:18, Douglas Hicks wrote: > > We had a system with the flow switch downstream from the test and drain. > Space was at premium We shut off the antifreeze loo

Lost coupon

We had a system with the flow switch downstream from the test and drain. Space was at premium We shut off the antifreeze loop and the incoming OS & Y, and drained the system. We used the Ridgid HC 450. They broke the pilot bit, I was not told, so they crew kept going. They cut the hole, a

Antifreeze loops

I have a guest lodge, with 3 glycerine antifreeze loops. The building is about 15 years old, and has a history of leaking heads.All of the heads were replaced about 5 years ago. We replaced 2 leaking horizontal heads and 2 leaking pendants, and the leaking FDC check valve in Oct of 2015.