I too am curious about this. I have seen 20,000 ft² stacked 20' high on both
sides of a warehouse with a single aisle in the middle for a forklift.
Mike Hill
-Original Message-
From: Sprinklerforum On Behalf
Of Kyle.Montgomery via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Wednesday, June 9, 2021 2:45 PM
To
There goes my logic, right out the window..again.
Mike Hill
-Original Message-
From: Sprinklerforum On Behalf
Of Bob Caputo via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Friday, May 7, 2021 2:21 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: Bob Caputo
Subject: Re: Available Pressure from Fire Water
I would think you could subtract the sprinkler demand x required duration from
the lowest expected capacity of the tank and use the height of the remaining
water column as your supply. The tank would also probably need an automatic
fill. I have no codes to back this up, but logic says it should
You may have to put an adapter on a standard Storz connection.
Mike Hill
-Original Message-
From: Sprinklerforum On Behalf
Of BOB AKINS via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2021 2:41 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: BOB AKINS
Subject: 4 1/2" FDC
I have a city
My guess is Steve was thinking metal pan with concrete slab above. That is how
I originally read the post.
Mike Hill
-Original Message-
From: Sprinklerforum On Behalf
Of cliff--- via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Monday, February 1, 2021 5:08 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: cl
It's a shame that full scale fire testing is cost prohibitive. I would really
like to see what would actually happen with some of the worst case scenarios we
bring up.
Shielded fire in RV launches a propane tank that hits the full fuel tank in the
fiberglass boat parked two spaces away. The fir
Would small hoses at a stage qualify?
Mike Hill
-Original Message-
From: Sprinklerforum On Behalf
Of Kyle.Montgomery via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Friday, October 2, 2020 3:16 PM
To: 'sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org'
Cc: Kyle.Montgomery
Subject: 8.17.5 Hose Connections
So, I under
Couldn't you extract that information from the latest pump test.
Mike Hill
-Original Message-
From: Sprinklerforum On Behalf
Of Brian Harris via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 1:22 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: Brian Harris
Subject: RE: Pump Suction P
com> |
www.jacobs.com<http://www.jacobs.com/>
1041 East Butler Road Greenville, South Carolina 29606
From: Sprinklerforum
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org>]
On Behalf Of Michael Hill via Sprinklerforum
Se
We have been told by one jurisdiction that we must support the flex so that it
does not rest on the ceiling. I haven't seen anything to back that up either,
but was easier to comply than to argue.
Mike Hill
From: Sprinklerforum On Behalf
Of Matt Grise via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Monday, May 18,
Lawyers will argue whatever they think will keep their client, the insurance
company, from having to pay out a large sum. Doesn't matter what it pertains
too. After a fire they will call in everyone associated with the building,
including the cleaning lady that comes in every other Sunday. Every
Luis,
Please provide some additional information, so that your question can be
properly answered.
1. Where is this pump being installed.
2. Who is the AHJ.
3. What codes/standards have been adopted that you are basing your
installation on.
Mike Hill
From: Sprinklerforum [
If 300 ft² maximum area AND no unfilled penetrations, it is Panel - Obstructed
Construction. If it exceeds 300 ft² OR has unfilled penetrations, it is Smooth
Ceiling - Unobstructed Construction.
In order to place the deflectors 22” down, heat must be trapped so as not to
overly delay sprinkler
I have an old cutout from an AFSA Tech Talk... from August 1992 that gives a
pipe length formula.
A/6 x B = Length of pipe that can be installed in open web bar joist.
A = Depth of bar joists (expressed in inches)
B = Distance between bar joists (expressed in feet)
It is a general formula a
<mailto:rongreen...@gmail.com>
253.576.9700
The Universe is monstrously indifferent to the presence of man. -Werner Herzog,
screenwriter, film director, author, actor and opera director (1942-)
On Tue, Sep 24, 2019 at 1:00 PM Michael Hill via Sprinklerforum
mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkl
While it seems trivial to us who deal with it for a living, imagine the
building caught fire and there were fire/smoke/water damages. I bet an
insurance company lawyer could convince others that if the existing dry pipe
valve was modified, there is no way of telling what else “didn’t meet code”
I know that I would personally do the 8 heads on one line and 4 on the adjacent
line. I can clearly see some lawyer asking me why I didn’t do that, after the
fire.
I would only do this if I were calculating a portion of an existing system. If
it were a new system, I would just run a third line.
What they are stored in could be the deciding factor. Are they in corrugated
cartons?
Mike Hill
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On
Behalf Of Mike Hairfield
Sent: Friday, March 01, 2019 2:31 PM
To: Sprinkler Forum
Subject: Files of Documents Stored I
Not sure if only being 3 stories impacts the design, but in most high rise
atriums, that I have seen and/or been involved with, have sprinklers on both
sides spaced 6'-0" apart.
Mike Hill
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On
Behalf Of Thomas Reinhardt
The only ones that I have done were at the big box stores. Those had to be
designed for OH-2.
Mike Hill
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On
Behalf Of Tony Silva
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2019 1:57 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject
inkler are made from non-ferrous materials, which
most sprinklers are as they are commonly made of copper alloy (brass, bronze),
Belleville washer is typically Be-Ni, etc.
On Tue, Nov 13, 2018 at 9:28 AM Michael Hill
mailto:mi...@phoenixfp.net>> wrote:
I have a closet located in an MRI room that
closet. It is a 3T unit.
Am I missing something?
Michael Hill
Phoenix Fire Protection, Inc.
(301) 669-7066
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Sprinklerforum mailing list
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You may not find an approved assembly. You might need to just search for an
approved motor/unit that would mount to a standard (approved) valve.
Mike Hill
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On
Behalf Of Hinson, Ryan
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2018 1:
You may have to search for just the actuator and then see if you can piece one
together with a listed valve.
Mike Hill
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On
Behalf Of Mike Stossel
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2018 3:28 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprink
Did you check the jockey pump check valve? We had one that had a damaged seat
and allowed pressure to bleed off.
Michael Hill
On Jun 15, 2018, at 11:24 AM, Micah Davis, SET
mailto:mi...@dynamicfire.us>> wrote:
Yes, and with the suction control and bypass valve closed, everything
I seem to remember being told early on in my fire protection career that
sprinkler pipe could not pass thru unsprinklered areas of an otherwise
sprinklered building. Does anyone know where this comes from or if it is even a
requirement?
In my case the water comes from the BFP passes thru an unc
I am with you Kyle, but in my case it is over 30 years. I suspect that at some
point my RFI will be answered by the engineer telling me to do it like they
show, but I am still not convinced that NFPA 13 backs that up.
Michael Hill
> On Dec 5, 2017, at 9:51 AM, Kyle.Montgomery wrote:
>
have walls Michael, you have a sloped ceiling.
The down-slope 'half' of the pattern is obstructed, be it sawtooth or not :).
Brad.
Quoting Michael Hill :
> That section explains what to do once the maximum area of protection
> is determined. I am still not convinced.
> I agree
ll get distracted
> and our eyes will stray from the prize.
>
> On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 9:33 AM, Nick Maneen wrote:
>
>> You are correct. The sprinkler does not know it needs to throw water
>> in mainly one direction. It will be 15x14
>>
>>
>>
>> *Nick Mane
within coverage rules for OH, and throw range rules
for SS sprinklers.
On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 8:33 AM, Michael Hill mailto:mi...@phoenixfp.net> > wrote:
I am working on a firing range that is going to have a saw-tooth type ceiling
installed. I have a question about determining m
05.348.0108
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org]
On Behalf Of Michael Hill
Sent: Friday, October 6, 2017 8:28 AM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>
Subject: RE: Calcs and tenant improvement
It is because of scenarios like these, the AHJ require calculations for
everything. It makes the ill informed/trained do what they should have done
originally.
Mike Hill
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org]
On Behalf Of Steve Leyton
Sent: Friday, Octo
They have their uses, but there are limitations. I don't believe the elbows
can go back to back and you cannot rotate them so as to get the bolts in an
accessible location if you are working in a tight spot. They also have a
shorter take-out than Firelock fittings. There can be some labor savings
o
I must read something different into the comment. I see it as, what ends up in
the book doesn’t always reflect what the committee intended. Either lost in
translation or poor choice of wording.
I have been doing this for over 30 years and I know there are times when I need
to read the text 10 t
In this case, I don’t think you can get away from sprinklers in the attic (I
was never able to). It is partially enclosed by exposed combustible
construction.
Sprinklers spaced along the slope or at the peak (assume a pitched/peaked roof)
will still wet portions of the wood decking.
Mik
rforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On
Behalf Of Michael Hill
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 12:18 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>
Subject: RE: electrical bldg high ex foam in the news [EXTERNAL]
That is what it is supposed
That is what it is supposed to do, lots of foam. Did the foam contribute to the
second explosion in the adjacent bay?
Thanks for the link Ryan.
Mike Hill
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On
Behalf Of Ryan Labrie
Sent: Monday, December 05, 20
It is a very powerful program and it can do a lot of things (usually
multiple ways to do the same thing). If you transition over from a drawing
board, like I did, it is a fairly easy switch. If you are transitioning over
from an AutoCad based program, you will have to unlearn a lot of things.
There
The quote was from Ferguson. The sales rep has since called back and said he
misspoke. The $275 was what was in their system for someone who bought 2500 of
them. It does look like you can negotiate the price though.
Michael Hill
> On Sep 12, 2016, at 9:36 AM, 321 wrote:
>
> Mike,
&g
I was curious about this, so I had my purchasing agent call to see what our
price would be. $275 each, but maybe a little better if we bought a large
quantity.
I am glad this thread came up. I know that it is rare that these would come up
in one of our bids, but I was able to use this as an exa
Can’t someone ask the A/E what the intent was for this wall.
Mike Hill
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On
Behalf Of Ben Young
Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2016 11:14 AM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: Drawing orders of hiera
es just another computer video game, then GIGO
rears it's hammer, as it always will.
Ken Wagoner, SET
Parsley Consulting
350 West 9th Avenue, Suite 206
Escondido, California 92025
Phone 760-745-6181
Visit our website <http://www.parsleyconsulting.com/>
On 08/30/2016 9:27 AM, Michael H
e revised configuration.
SL
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org
] On Behalf Of Michael Hill
Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2016 6:11 AM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: Flexheads in small renovation
I agree with Richard, it n
I agree with Richard, it needs to be evaluated. It is known that flex piping is
generally more demanding than their hard piped counterparts. If the base
building design did not include flex piping, I would look at it as a change to
base building design and perform a quick calculation to see how
My understanding is you would need to put sprinkler heads in the high
ceiling area. My best guess as to why 3' is limit is the amount of time it
takes for the heat to fill a pocket greater than 3' deep to eventually
activate a sprinkler at the lower ceiling. There must have been a series of
test pe
We have always figured square footage, measured to walls. If there is a 3' x
8' bump out where the tub is, it is included.
Mike Hill
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org]
On Behalf Of Welch, Bobby
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2016 12:23 PM
To: sprinklerfor
I have not been involved with one personally, but the 2 that I have seen had
removable steel plate covers for the full length of the trench. The trench
itself was concrete for the full length as well. I do not remember seeing any
drains in the trench, but would imagine they are needed or the tre
A sprinkler installer can cut the holes, but the GC won't like all the
black, oily fingerprints on the ceiling tiles.
Mike Hill
-Original Message-
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org]
On Behalf Of Steve Leyton
Sent: Friday, July 15, 2016 12:29 PM
T
They covered a lot of ground in that description.
Mike Hill
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On
Behalf Of rongreenman .
Sent: Friday, July 15, 2016 12:32 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: Re: Installing ceiling tile
Ar
use of individual or entity named
> above. If you are not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent
> responsible to deliver this message to the intended recipient, you are
> hereby notified that any disclosure, copying or taking of any action
> in reliance on
. Long story short he told me it was the
structural engineer and no one overlays anything anymore.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jul 14, 2016, at 9:40 AM, Michael Hill wrote:
>
> In our recent experience, it doesn't matter if you get an approved
> change order or not. The GC just refuses
In our recent experience, it doesn't matter if you get an approved change
order or not. The GC just refuses to pay for it at the end of the project
claiming they couldn't get it approved by the building owner.
In general, it has to be determined why the sprinkler pipe is in conflict
with other tra
Have not heard of this before. Perhaps he wants to do forward flow test for
backflow preventer?
Mike Hill
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org]
On Behalf Of Todd Williams
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2016 8:41 AM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Sidewalks pointed at the draft stop?
I thought part of the reasoning was to have water hit the draft stop and create
a wall of water.
Mike Hill
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jun 13, 2016, at 12:18 PM, Matt Grise wrote:
>
> I have an application where an open stairway will require closely spaced
>
Funny thing here is..
If this building were to burn down at some point in the future, the owner's
insurance company would argue that the contractor who replaced the sprinkler
heads should have known the system wasn't adequate for the hazard
classification of the building. They would argue that
The one thing the original question has pointed out to me, is how
differently things are done across the country. Some items that are not done
in some parts of the country can be standard practice in others.
Mike Hill
-Original Message-
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@
Back in the 'good ole days' there were sprinkler contractors that did this
(all the ones that I remember, were union companies). There are very few
that would even consider doing it now though (at least in my area). The
funny thing is, most site contractors know that no one else is going to run
it
Found the supplier I have used in the past. Dataprint.com
Mike Hill
-Original Message-
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org]
On Behalf Of Richard Mote
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2016 9:22 AM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: Sticky B
Try Rayven.com for the manufacturer.
Mike Hill
-Original Message-
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org]
On Behalf Of Richard Mote
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2016 9:22 AM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: Sticky Back
Anyone remember S
Laundry and trash usually doesn't come back up the chute.
Mike Hill
-Original Message-
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On
Behalf Of bmahoney5
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2016 12:52 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: Shooti
I have put sprinklers in several shooting ranges (Government made me do it).
They were all double interlock preaction systems with piping run above the
steel roof/ceiling of the range. They all used concealed type sprinklers.
One of the ranges utilized a saw tooth ceiling/roof to protect the heads.
As contractors, depending on which side we are trying to prove, the sump
pump is either sufficient to meet this section or it is not enough.
Confined space entry may be the best way to get the pump out of the pit.
Mike Hill
-Original Message-
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-bo
I do not remember ever seeing anything that would prohibit pumps in a pit. I
have also seen several pumps in pits (one full of water similar to the ones
you are talking about). These would make me think that they were at least
allowed in pits at some point.
Mike Hill
-Original Message-
Fr
Just got back to my desk. Look at section 8.3.3.3 (2013 edition)
Mike Hill
-Original Message-
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org]
On Behalf Of Michael Hill
Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2016 2:15 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Do not have NFPA 13 in front of me, but there is a section that allows you
to use SR heads if there are no QR heads in the temperature that you need.
Mike Hill
-Original Message-
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org]
On Behalf Of Jerry Van Kolken
Sen
l) Sent using CloudMagic
[https://cloudmagic.com/k/d/mailapp?ct=pi&cv=6.0.64&pv=8.2]
On Tue, Feb 16, 2016 at 7:58 AM, Michael Hill wrote:
Do you have positive pressure when testing for 150% capacity?
Mike Hill
-Original Message-
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@li
Do you have positive pressure when testing for 150% capacity?
Mike Hill
-Original Message-
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org]
On Behalf Of Matt Grise
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2016 7:57 AM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE:
Build the system on the floor and then have the Corps send an engineer out
to figure out how to raise it in place. Why are people making it so hard for
us to our jobs.
Mike Hill
-Original Message-
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org]
On Behalf Of
We had a similar situation on a Navy base. We were told we couldn't use the
lifts because they were not designed/listed for installing sprinkler pipe.
I think this was because of how we lay our pipe on the rails of the lift. We
eventually were able to use the lifts, but only after showing we were
Can you send those contractors our way. We can cloud, highlight and put
arrows pointing to our exclusions and the general contractor still only sees
the price at the bottom of the page.
Mike Hill
-Original Message-
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.o
We almost always exclude all electric and detection, but on occasion we have
subcontracted electric work out (not for preaction though). Recently, we
have had a few government projects where the building's electric department
was responsible for all electric connections to the preaction cabinet. Th
could it
be a ceiling pocket not requiring sprinklers?
Brad
-Original Message-
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org]
On Behalf Of Michael Hill
Sent: Friday, January 22, 2016 7:53 AM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: Roof d
I think it still falls under combustible concealed space and needs sprinklers.
Everyone that I have run across ended up having a hole cut in the plywood for
access to the dormer.
Mike Hill
-Original Message-
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On
To expand on this a bit more. Most of the grooved fittings that are used are
ductile iron, what allows their use.
Mike Hill
-Original Message-
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org]
On Behalf Of Michael Hill
Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2016 8:27 AM
How about working this from the other end. Get the listings for the proposed
fittings and seeing if any of them are acceptable in NFPA.
Mike Hill
-Original Message-
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org]
On Behalf Of scott.mitch...@cns.doe.gov
Sent: M
Is it still prohibited if installed in a properly protected space.
I didn't even know these existed until this thread.
Mike Hill
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jan 29, 2015, at 12:57 PM, "Fairchild, Jack"
> wrote:
>
> This is the type of camera Tom was referring to:
> http://www.discount-securi
I will go check it out, if the website lets me log in. I missed the last
webinar because of access problems. Still waiting for a response on my problem.
Maybe the Contact Us portion of the site is bugged as well.
Michael Hill
Sent from my iPhone
> On Dec 3, 2014, at 4:25 PM, Steve Mu
George,
You made an impact in this world.
Mike Hill
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 27, 2013, at 10:09 AM, Ken Holsopple wrote:
Dear Forumites,
>
> It is with great sorrow that I bear the news that George L. Church, Jr. past
> away last evening after a 16 month battle with lung cancer.
> George
We use 3" on a regular basis. Do not use 3.5" at all and in fact usually end up
upsizing it to 4" when we encounter it in the field. 5" pipe and fittings are
available on a limited basis and we only use it for repairs or when we
absolutely need to connect to it.
Mike Hill
Sent from my iPhone
I have encountered these on two occasions, one in MD the other in VA. The MD
job was many years ago, right about the time a fire study was conducted on
these structures. On both jobs the structures were in their own non rated
rooms. The MD job had to be designed for an EH-2 occupancy. The VA job
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