Re: [Standards] Privacy lists and the order of items

2009-05-12 Thread Jiří Zárevúcký
2009/5/12 Remko Tronçon re...@el-tramo.be: On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 5:51 PM, Dave Cridland d...@cridland.net wrote: This did get me wondering about the issue that if there's two semantically identical forms for the same information, then should we ever wish to have clients sign the privacy

Re: [Standards] Privacy lists and the order of items

2009-05-12 Thread Kurt Zeilenga
On May 12, 2009, at 12:31 AM, Jiří Zárevúcký wrote: If it comes to signing, we can specify that unordered elements are to be ordered by some algorithm. Yuk. I rather specify a data preservation rule. -- Kurt

Re: [Standards] Privacy lists and the order of items

2009-05-12 Thread Dave Cridland
On Tue May 12 08:31:44 2009, Jiří Zárevúcký wrote: That's another problem. As Peter pointed out to me earlier, no XMPP spec ever enforced a particular child order (if the order wouldn't make a semantic difference in XMPP). If it comes to signing, we can specify that unordered elements are to be

Re: [Standards] Privacy lists and the order of items

2009-05-12 Thread Remko Tronçon
Yuk. I rather specify a data preservation rule. +1. I was assuming that this rule would be there if we were to have signing. cheers, Remko

Re: [Standards] Privacy lists and the order of items

2009-05-12 Thread Kurt Zeilenga
On May 12, 2009, at 7:17 AM, Remko Tronçon wrote: Yuk. I rather specify a data preservation rule. +1. I was assuming that this rule would be there if we were to have signing. Yes, the rule would apply only to signed data.

[Standards] Privacy lists and the order of items

2009-05-11 Thread Waqas Hussain
If a client adds/edits a privacy list a) may a server reorder the list's item elements (sorted by the order attribute for example)? That is, the client saves list name='somelist' item type='jid' value='pa...@example.org' action='deny' order='5'/ item type='jid' value='tyb...@example.com'

Re: [Standards] Privacy lists and the order of items

2009-05-11 Thread Remko Tronçon
Also, I'm wondering why the order attribute is used on privacy lists' items, instead of using the implicit order of the items. I always wondered that myself. I assume it's historical baggage. A pity though, because it makes things needlessly complicated to implement on both client and server

Re: [Standards] Privacy lists and the order of items

2009-05-11 Thread Peter Saint-Andre
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 5/11/09 1:59 AM, Remko Tronçon wrote: Also, I'm wondering why the order attribute is used on privacy lists' items, instead of using the implicit order of the items. I always wondered that myself. I assume it's historical baggage. A pity

Re: [Standards] Privacy lists and the order of items

2009-05-11 Thread Remko Tronçon
Can you trust the order of items? If you couldn't, then generated XHTML-IM pages would be quite interesting. cheers, Remko

Re: [Standards] Privacy lists and the order of items

2009-05-11 Thread Dave Cridland
On Mon May 11 15:10:04 2009, Peter Saint-Andre wrote: Can you trust the order of items? This did get me wondering about the issue that if there's two semantically identical forms for the same information, then should we ever wish to have clients sign the privacy list, we have a C14N

Re: [Standards] Privacy lists and the order of items

2009-05-11 Thread Waqas Hussain
On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 7:10 PM, Peter Saint-Andre stpe...@stpeter.im wrote: On 5/11/09 1:59 AM, Remko Tronçon wrote: Also, I'm wondering why the order attribute is used on privacy lists' items, instead of using the implicit order of the items. I always wondered that myself. I assume it's

Re: [Standards] Privacy lists and the order of items

2009-05-11 Thread Justin Karneges
On Monday 11 May 2009 16:28:00 Waqas Hussain wrote: On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 7:10 PM, Peter Saint-Andre stpe...@stpeter.im wrote: Can you trust the order of items? Err, explain to me why you wouldn't. Order of nodes (except attributes on an element) is significant in XML. I've heard that

Re: [Standards] Privacy lists and the order of items

2009-05-11 Thread Waqas Hussain
On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 4:40 AM, Justin Karneges justin-keyword-jabber.093...@affinix.com wrote: On Monday 11 May 2009 16:28:00 Waqas Hussain wrote: On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 7:10 PM, Peter Saint-Andre stpe...@stpeter.im wrote: Can you trust the order of items? Err, explain to me why you

Re: [Standards] Privacy lists and the order of items

2009-05-11 Thread Remko Tronçon
On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 5:51 PM, Dave Cridland d...@cridland.net wrote: This did get me wondering about the issue that if there's two semantically identical forms for the same information, then should we ever wish to have clients sign the privacy list, we have a C14N problem. Well, semantical