Re: [Sugar-devel] [DESIGN RFC] Onboarding

2015-12-31 Thread Iain Brown Douglas
Hi Sam, This is a fine proposal and I cannot fault your 15 points. One comment, some are essential, "first ten minutes of use issues" and some might be seen as essential to getting productive. Of course onboarding runs at many levels, and may be significantly different for different user groups.

Re: [Sugar-devel] [DESIGN RFC] Onboarding

2015-12-30 Thread Gonzalo Odiard
Hi Sam, Nice proposal. A few releases ago, OLPC images included a activity named Welcome [1] that included just images to explain the basic operations in Sugar. At the time, olpc images included a patch to run that activity in the first run, (the activity can run from the command line too [2]).

Re: [Sugar-devel] [DESIGN RFC] Onboarding

2015-12-30 Thread Sam P.
Hi Tony, Thank you for the comments on the proposal. (For context, by onboarding I refer to the users first run experience. Similar to [1]. Specifically something that helps them understand the basics of sugar) >From an implementation perspective it is important as you note to bind to widgets

Re: [Sugar-devel] [DESIGN RFC] Onboarding

2015-12-30 Thread Tony Anderson
Hi, Sam What is our contextual help system? Do you mean right-click popups? Your proposal mentions the need for a simple trigger. The help button (or a sub-option) should invoke the class specifying a particular onboard 'tutorial'. For Python that seems very straightforward. Yes, there is

Re: [Sugar-devel] [DESIGN RFC] Onboarding

2015-12-29 Thread Tony Anderson
Some thoughts: Trigger this with the help button (see TurtleBlocks). If there is already a help, make the help button show options: help tutorial: how to launch an activity where tutorial is the Onboarding implementation. It should be possible to have more than one

Re: [Sugar-devel] [DESIGN RFC] Onboarding

2015-12-28 Thread Tony Anderson
I think this is becoming unproductive so let's move on. The important thing is Sam's proposal and its implementation. Two considerations: 1) Make the implementation scriptable as much as possible so that new help scenarios can be easily implemented in the wild. 2) Minimize text -

Re: [Sugar-devel] [DESIGN RFC] Onboarding

2015-12-28 Thread Tony Anderson
Hi, James This thread is growing but each time there is new information. At least as of 0.106, Sugar has the backup URL (see /usr/bin/ds_backup.py and ds_backup.sh). I can't say whether they are being used. The primary flaw in ds_backup.py is that it performs an rsync (with -d). This means

Re: [Sugar-devel] [DESIGN RFC] Onboarding

2015-12-28 Thread James Cameron
No, ds-backup is not part of Sugar. As I said before, Sugar itself does not use the backup URL. I've checked the Sugar code already. ds-backup (not Sugar) does read the backup URL from GConf schema /desktop/sugar/backup_url (Given Sugar has migrated to GSettings, so too should ds-backup).

Re: [Sugar-devel] [DESIGN RFC] Onboarding

2015-12-27 Thread Tony Anderson
Hi, James One of the big problems in our community is the disconnect between the school server and the XO. The two work together form a system. Ejabberd supports gabble which is how collaboration works for XOs connected to a school server. The design of the school server has always made

Re: [Sugar-devel] [DESIGN RFC] Onboarding

2015-12-27 Thread James Cameron
Sure, but as I said, not really a function of Sugar, but instead of the operating system that Sugar is installed on. Sugar does all the right things already. The other things you are using with Sugar, such as Moodle and ejabberd, are also somewhat out of scope for Sugar. On Mon, Dec 28, 2015 at

Re: [Sugar-devel] [DESIGN RFC] Onboarding

2015-12-27 Thread Tony Anderson
Hi, James This issue of supporting more than one user per machine is very important in the wild (not many deployments can afford literally one laptop per child and so provide classroom sets with each laptop having multiple users. On registration, a new user is created server-side: the serial

Re: [Sugar-devel] [DESIGN RFC] Onboarding

2015-12-27 Thread James Cameron
Thanks Sam! I like the design. It reminds me of one we discussed in Netrek development at about the same phase of the project lifecycle; long after the peak of interest. It doesn't look like it would be much programming. It could involve sound as well; as reinforcement of each goal. It could

Re: [Sugar-devel] [DESIGN RFC] Onboarding

2015-12-27 Thread James Cameron
Yes, but we're talking about Sugar here, not the XO. Sugar supports more than the XO. Sugar supports a school server using the register feature, which sets a Jabber server and a backup URL. Sugar uses the new Jabber server as a replacement for the default provided by Sugar Labs. Sugar does not

[Sugar-devel] [DESIGN RFC] Onboarding

2015-12-26 Thread Sam P.
Hi All, Sugar has a novel user interface, with lots of beautiful and logical things. However, there are some important elements (such as the frame or journal) that are not familiar or intuitive to new users. This is an issue, as sugar currently relys upon exploration as our only user onboarding

Re: [Sugar-devel] [DESIGN RFC] Onboarding

2015-12-26 Thread Tony Anderson
Hi, Sam Excellent proposal. We should solicit community input on additional items which experience users need to learn to get comfortable with using the XO. I think your implementation involves too much programming. Perhaps a youtube style screencast walkthroughs and posters would be an