Re: [Tagging] marking shop as street vendor

How about "shops", or at least traders, that have nothing to do with food, or selling a physical item? We have a number of surf schools (learn how to ride a surfboard) that operate out of a van & set up in the same spot every day. At days end, they pack everything up & go home. eg

Re: [Tagging] RFC proposed water property key 'ephemeral '

On 25/05/18 19:42, Christoph Hormann wrote: On Friday 25 May 2018, Warin wrote: Intermittent does not equal ephemeral. So you have said repeatedly. I know this is hard for native English speakers but you need to accept that tags in OSM do not generally mean what the English language terms

Re: [Tagging] roundtrip

On 25/05/18 21:31, Peter Elderson wrote: It's an example. But we are not alone... Same in Sydney Australia - billed on entry and exit points .. not on how long you have been inside the  transport system system. Some 'homeless' use it as a warm dry resting place, doing long round trips.

Re: [Tagging] highway=service // public road?

Le 25. 05. 18 à 23:09, Greg Troxel a écrit : > "place you can drive that is not a legal road". how did you known the owner of a road ? I map several highway=service + service=driveaway sometimes I can guess where the line is between private and public space, but in many cases not. and I don't

Re: [Tagging] highway=service // public road?

Martin Koppenhoefer writes: >> and track (for - due to history - public accessible rural driveways) is >> simply driven by reality. > > track is about agricultural and forestry usage, I did not know it required > public accessibility, does it? In my usage (and US

Re: [Tagging] marking shop as street vendor

sent from a phone > On 25. May 2018, at 19:59, Mateusz Konieczny wrote: > > I attempted to improve definition, and I ended with > > "shop that is completely or almost completely dismantled outside its opening > hours." the term “street” also suggests the shop is

Re: [Tagging] roundtrip

sent from a phone > On 25. May 2018, at 13:43, Andy Mabbett wrote: > > This seems badly named, or badly described. A vehicle that goes from A > to B, then returns along the reverse route to A, is said in British > English to perform a "round trip". from what I

Re: [Tagging] how to tag place where horse-drawn carriages wait for tourists?

sent from a phone > On 25. May 2018, at 19:54, Mateusz Konieczny wrote: > > But what about donkeys? What about electric vehicles that offer very > similar services - trip across city. > > amenity=tourism_ride > tourism_ride=horse are those golf carts driving on

Re: [Tagging] roundtrip

As to the term roundtrip, I have inderstood this completely wrong, probably because the Dutch term Rondwandeling literally translates as roundtrip. Now that I've been set straight, I think the correct meaning should be documented on the wiki page. The bracketed "explanation" (circular route)

Re: [Tagging] marking shop as street vendor

On Fri, May 25, 2018 at 7:58 PM, Mateusz Konieczny wrote: > 25. May 2018 20:39 by craigw84+...@gmail.com: > > I agree but I have no good idea for a tag name. Can you propose something? > mobile_amenity=* maybe. Or mobile=yes + amenity=*. I think I prefer the latter,

Re: [Tagging] how to tag place where horse-drawn carriages wait for tourists?

No? Taxi is tagged amenity=taxi access=no motorcar=yes. 25-05-2018 21:29 tarihinde Johnparis yazdı: > > >What about electric vehicles that offer very > similar services - trip across city. > > A taxi? > > Seriously I don't know what you mean. > > I have seen similar services (tuk tuks) but

Re: [Tagging] marking shop as street vendor

25. May 2018 20:39 by craigw84+...@gmail.com : > Would be good to map them in some way. They are not really "street vendors". > I agree but I have no good idea for a tag name.  Can you propose something? If there is nothing reasonable it can be left for

Re: [Tagging] how to tag place where horse-drawn carriages wait for tourists?

25. May 2018 20:29 by ok...@johnfreed.com : > > >What about electric vehicles that offer very > similar services - trip across city. > A taxi? > Seriously I don't know what you mean. Sorry, I thought about something more specific. There are places with waiting

Re: [Tagging] marking shop as street vendor

On 2018-05-25 19:31, Mateusz Konieczny wrote: I forgot how many different objects qualified, I now listed  some "It includes for example food trucks that are not permanently staying in one place, products sold from cart, portable table, tent, or by somebody holding products for sale."

Re: [Tagging] marking shop as street vendor

25. May 2018 20:09 by pla16...@gmail.com : > On Fri, May 25, 2018 at 6:59 PM, Mateusz Konieczny <> matkoni...@tutanota.com > > > wrote: > >> >> I attempted to improve definition, and I ended with >> "shop that is completely or

Re: [Tagging] how to tag place where horse-drawn carriages wait for tourists?

>What about electric vehicles that offer very similar services - trip across city. A taxi? Seriously I don't know what you mean. I have seen similar services (tuk tuks) but they're not exclusively for tourists. On Fri, May 25, 2018, 19:57 Erkin Alp Güney wrote: >

Re: [Tagging] how to tag place where horse-drawn carriages wait for tourists?

As I read the tourism=* page, it seems that tourism=attraction is for things (like waterfalls) that exist independent of tourism that might interest a tourist. Things like theme parks that exist only for tourists would get a tourism=* tag. So I suggest tourism=carriage_ride as the main tag. I

Re: [Tagging] marking shop as street vendor

On Fri, May 25, 2018 at 6:59 PM, Mateusz Konieczny wrote: > I attempted to improve definition, and I ended with > > "shop that is completely or almost completely dismantled outside its > opening hours." > What I have used in the past, because it was suggested to me by

Re: [Tagging] marking shop as street vendor

I attempted to improve definition, and I ended with "shop that is completely or almost completely dismantled outside its opening hours." I also created https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/street_vendor%3Dyes

Re: [Tagging] how to tag place where horse-drawn carriages wait for tourists?

highway=car_stop car=yes 25-05-2018 20:54 tarihinde Mateusz Konieczny yazdı: > > 24. May 2018 23:14 by matkoni...@tutanota.com > : > > It is quite typical tourism attraction - tourist may rent > carriage for a trip. > > In many cases there are

Re: [Tagging] how to tag place where horse-drawn carriages wait for tourists?

24. May 2018 23:14 by matkoni...@tutanota.com : > It is quite typical tourism attraction - tourist may rent > carriage for a trip. > > In many cases there are designated points > where carriages wait for tourists wishing > to rent them. Is there a tag to mark

Re: [Tagging] roundtrip

I would generally agree with all your points. A slightly more formal definition (though not fully rigorous) for me would be: a circular route is one in which, from any boarding area, you can return to the same boarding area without being forced to disembark. I say boarding area rather than point

Re: [Tagging] roundtrip

On Fri, May 25, 2018 at 1:51 PM, Peter Elderson wrote: > Looked it up, of course. Definitions are not that clear-cut. Generally, > round trip means that you return where you came from, some definitions say > along the same route, some say mostly along the same route but not

Re: [Tagging] roundtrip

Looked it up, of course. Definitions are not that clear-cut. Generally, round trip means that you return where you came from, some definitions say along the same route, some say mostly along the same route but not necessarily. I think the less strict definition covers the usage on osm, except for

Re: [Tagging] highway=service // public road?

On Fri, May 25, 2018 at 11:54:13AM +0900, John Willis wrote: > > On May 25, 2018, at 2:29 AM, Florian Lohoff wrote: > > > > Interestingly the key:highway wiki page lists unclassified as > > the lowest classification of a road: > > That’s weird - since service=alley seems to be the

Re: [Tagging] roundtrip

I've looked up the Circle Line in London. It is not circular in any way! 2018-05-25 14:00 GMT+02:00 Peter Elderson : > I think circular is used to indicate that the vehicle in the end returns > at the same point. I don't think the actual shape of the route matters. How >

Re: [Tagging] roundtrip

I think circular is used to indicate that the vehicle in the end returns at the same point. I don't think the actual shape of the route matters. How would it be called in British Enhglish if the vehicle returns at the same point, only by a different route, in order to serve more boarding points?

Re: [Tagging] roundtrip

If the route as a whole is a roundtrip, then exactly that point. Let’s assume the route has stops: A1 B C D E A2 A1 and A2 may be exactly the same point or close to each other, but that doesn’t matter, because for a roundtrip route, I would expect the vehicle to visits: A1

Re: [Tagging] roundtrip

On 25 May 2018 at 06:48, Peter Elderson wrote: > What is the use of the key:roundtrip? > Explanations just say >> roundtrip=yes/no(optional) Use roundtrip=no to indicate that a route goes >> from >> A to B. Use roundtrip=yes to indicate that the start and finish of the

Re: [Tagging] roundtrip

It's an example. But we are not alone... 2018-05-25 12:33 GMT+02:00 Martin Koppenhoefer : > 2018-05-25 12:29 GMT+02:00 Peter Elderson : > >> How would that be applicable in Nederland, where PT uses one type of >> chipcard for all voyages and payment

[Tagging] roundtrip

Oops, I didn't think this topic would generate so much response, even though I charged a bit in the first mail. Let me try to make some sense of it. I have seen enough use cases, I think. a. There are two use cases which use the actual definition on the wiki: a geagraphically closed route,

Re: [Tagging] roundtrip

2018-05-25 12:59 GMT+02:00 Jo : > But a line that does A->B, then B->A is not a roundtrip, and it would take > 2 route relations to describe the itineraries + a route_master to describe > the line. > +1, most buses go A->B and return, a rountrip is A->A Cheers, Martin

Re: [Tagging] roundtrip

I don't see a problem with adding tags that enable validation to be performed, even if it means some redundancy in the data. But I may have misinterpreted the roundtrip tag myself. Jo 2018-05-25 11:52 GMT+02:00 Peter Elderson : > Isn't that should-be tagging for the

Re: [Tagging] roundtrip

Paul, Let me know when you would have time for a hangout. I'd like to have a look at that route! Preferably with somebody who actually knows how the bus follows it. But a line that does A->B, then B->A is not a roundtrip, and it would take 2 route relations to describe the itineraries + a

Re: [Tagging] roundtrip

woud the roundtrip tag help you with that? 2018-05-25 12:51 GMT+02:00 Paul Allen : > > > On Fri, May 25, 2018 at 11:20 AM, Peter Elderson > wrote: > >> In that case it is a service-thing rather than a route-thing. Is it >> generally used like that? >>

Re: [Tagging] roundtrip

On Fri, May 25, 2018 at 11:20 AM, Peter Elderson wrote: > In that case it is a service-thing rather than a route-thing. Is it > generally used like that? > The wiki just mentions the co-location of start/endpoint of the route. > > I'm going by what I've encountered in

Re: [Tagging] roundtrip

I wish you a happy trip on that bus, hope it has toilets and a tolerable coffee machine 2018-05-25 12:37 GMT+02:00 Jo : > Ticket pricing shouldn't have anything to do with it. Here in Belgium, you > buy a ticket valid for a specific duration. As long as it didn't expire, >

Re: [Tagging] roundtrip

Exactly that point or in the vicinity? No matter the payment, ticketing and boarding rules? 2018-05-25 12:32 GMT+02:00 : > Or to express it even more general: > > > > If you start at any stop, and remain on the vehicle, you will at some > later point get back

Re: [Tagging] roundtrip

Ticket pricing shouldn't have anything to do with it. Here in Belgium, you buy a ticket valid for a specific duration. As long as it didn't expire, you can still board the vehicle. OK, I'm not sure what would happen if you got onto a 'roundtrip' bus with a ticket valid for 1 hour and you are

Re: [Tagging] roundtrip

2018-05-25 12:29 GMT+02:00 Peter Elderson : > How would that be applicable in Nederland, where PT uses one type of > chipcard for all voyages and payment is based on distance travelled between > check-in and check-out, no matter the route or vehicle? > isn't this offtopic?

Re: [Tagging] roundtrip

Or to express it even more general: If you start at any stop, and remain on the vehicle, you will at some later point get back to the stop you started on. From: osm.tagg...@thorsten.engler.id.au Sent: Friday, 25 May 2018 20:23 To: 'Tag discussion,

Re: [Tagging] roundtrip

So it would depend on the payment requirements and ticket usage... then, if a return ticket is available it would count as a roundtrip, even though you pay extra for the return trip? How would that be applicable in Nederland, where PT uses one type of chipcard for all voyages and payment is based

Re: [Tagging] roundtrip

I interpret roundtrip as “you can get from a stop to another stop that’s *before* it in the list of stops by simply remaining in the vehicle”. You can have routes where the start and stop are the same location, but this is not true (as the vehicle always goes on to serve another route after

Re: [Tagging] roundtrip

In that case it is a service-thing rather than a route-thing. Is it generally used like that? The wiki just mentions the co-location of start/endpoint of the route. The suggested use as a validator-tag requires the use exactlly as the wiki says, while other suggested uses mark cases where the tag

Re: [Tagging] roundtrip

2018-05-25 11:10 GMT+02:00 Johnparis : > > Similarly, a route that is not closed can be a roundtrip. The start and > end points might be several meters apart, even on different roads, yet > serve the same destination. > +1 in OSM you can also expect incomplete data, someone

Re: [Tagging] roundtrip

Thoughts on the subject For a route to be a round trip on public transport it would be required that only one ticket purchase would be necessary to take you full circle, and this would include a tourist bus that allows you to get off and back on again along the route until you get back to

Re: [Tagging] RFC proposed water property key 'ephemeral '

> The tag provides mapper a way of tagging rivers and streams that is presently not available. > That will vary .. year to year and decade to decade ... to much change? > This too will vary. I think something might be getting lost in translation, since those questions were rhetorical. I'm

Re: [Tagging] roundtrip

On Fri, May 25, 2018 at 6:48 AM, Peter Elderson wrote: > > The only use case I can imagine is when a roundtrip has one ore more > access ways which are included in the route relation. But even then, what > is the purpose? > I would say that roundtrip=yes on route A->B->A

Re: [Tagging] roundtrip

Isn't that should-be tagging for the validator? I don't know if that's less frowned-upon than tagging for the renderer... Besides, if you derive the tag from your tagging tool, couldn't the validator do that directly? 2018-05-25 11:15 GMT+02:00 Jo : > I tend to use

Re: [Tagging] RFC proposed water property key 'ephemeral '

On Friday 25 May 2018, Warin wrote: > > Intermittent does not equal ephemeral. So you have said repeatedly. I know this is hard for native English speakers but you need to accept that tags in OSM do not generally mean what the English language terms they use mean. intermittent=yes in OSM

Re: [Tagging] roundtrip

Thanks for the example. Looks to me the bus will have to drive through the tunnel for its next round. This route just needs to be completed! Now it's a oneway route. The route_master only contains one relation in one direction. 2018-05-25 11:10 GMT+02:00 Johnparis : >

Re: [Tagging] roundtrip

I tend to use roundtrip=yes when (after fixing) a route relation gets this double way icon next to the ways, instead of a single vertical line (JOSM only ofc). If we all start using it that way, we could create a validator rule for checking the relation is still 'all right'. Polyglot 2018-05-25

Re: [Tagging] RFC proposed water property key 'ephemeral '

On 25/05/18 15:00, Nick Bolten wrote: If I understand this proposal right, the goal of this tag is to provide more specific information for the general likelihood of whether a water feature (only rivers?) exists: when it comes and goes every days. The tag provides mapper a way of tagging

Re: [Tagging] roundtrip

Interesting. Similarly, a route that is not closed can be a roundtrip. The start and end points might be several meters apart, even on different roads, yet serve the same destination. There are a few (very few) examples I have found in the Paris area. Here's one. It's not marked roundtrip=yes but

Re: [Tagging] roundtrip

On 25/05/18 15:48, Peter Elderson wrote: What is the use of the key:roundtrip? Explanations just say roundtrip =yes/no (optional) Use roundtrip=no to indicate that a route goes from A to B. Use roundtrip=yes to indicate that the start and