They DO have exactly this type of living street in the Netherlands too, see
https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woonerf
But the particular street Peter is talking about is, on purpose, NOT such a
living street.
The street itself is a normal residential street, with sidewalks and raised
kerbs.
In Spain when we have this kind of exit applies the traffic sign and the
rules of living street, as you can see in
https://www.google.nl/maps/@41.2187293,1.7332079,3a,44.9y,155.43h,88.86t/data=!3m9!1e1!3m7!1swoQsNOW-rj_haPcAnawoYw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!9m2!1b1!2i40
, a normal street becomes living at
The side street used to be a special living_street exactly like the calle
resedincial but the signs have been removed.
Now it's a regular street, where the 30-Km zone applies. It's just the exit
of the side street onto the bigger street we're talking about. I do think
that part resembles a living
In Spain this would be a living_street, the sidewalk is at the same level
and the structure of the street does not allow speed faster than 20. Also I
have to say the start of the bigger is street is a 30 Zone .
You are right, there is no legal source. De traffic regulations just state
that using an exit is a special manoeuvre, which means that you have to let
all other traffic (including pedestrians) go first. In practice this would
mean a near standstill, then when everything is clear accelerate to
On 2018-06-15 08:28, Peter Elderson wrote:
> Speed is limited to 15 Kmph (living_street rules).
Peter, have you got a source for this 15kph maxspeed (wegenverkeerswet)
for an uitrit that is not a living street? It may be sensible, given the
priority rules and the physical construction, but I
depends on the country, for Belgium:
https://wegcode.be/index.php?option=com_content=article=183:art22ter=48:kb-01121975=48
(maxspeed 30)
On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 10:46 AM Peter Elderson wrote:
>
> There might or might not be a traffic_calming table or bump. Bumps and tables
> do not imply
Same here in Nederland.
2018-06-15 10:43 GMT+02:00 Steve Doerr :
> On 15/06/2018 09:11, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
>
>> I don’t know how the situation in the Netherlands, but in Germany
>> pedestrians always have precedence over turning cars at junctions, this
>> would be nothing special.
>>
>
>
2018-06-15 8:04 GMT+02:00 Peter Elderson :
> This has (legal and practical) implications for speed and right of way:
> traffic coming from an exit construction has to give way to all sides, to
> all traffic including pedestrians, and maxspeed = 15 Kmph.
>
>
you will have to split the crossing
There might or might not be a traffic_calming table or bump. Bumps and
tables do not imply maxspeed or precedence.
2018-06-15 10:25 GMT+02:00 Marc Gemis :
> On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 10:09 AM Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I would tag a node
> >
> > highway=give_way
> >
> >
On 15/06/2018 09:11, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
I don’t know how the situation in the Netherlands, but in Germany pedestrians
always have precedence over turning cars at junctions, this would be nothing
special.
Even on the road you're turning out of? In the UK, a turning vehicle has
to
On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 10:09 AM Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I would tag a node
>
> highway=give_way
>
> traffic_calming=table
For a traffic calming table, I would expect to see a "up" and a bit
further a "down", I only see up here (coming from the main street). Is
that a problem ?
Right U R. The driveway then exits onto the road. Traffic is supposed to
see and understand that this exit is not a real junction.
Authorities in Nederland have cleverly decided to re-use this to regulate
minor public street exits without any signing and fuss, and gave it a legal
status. They
On 2018-06-15 09:54, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
> sent from a phone
>
>> On 15. Jun 2018, at 08:28, Peter Elderson wrote:
>>
>> The street is residential, but the exit is over a sidewalk, with a dropped
>> curb. That's the piece I'm talking about: not the street, just the exit.
>>
>> Rules
sent from a phone
> On 15. Jun 2018, at 09:49, Volker Schmidt wrote:
>
> pedestrians can cross and have precedence
I don’t know how the situation in the Netherlands, but in Germany pedestrians
always have precedence over turning cars at junctions, this would be nothing
special.
Cheers,
I would tag a node
highway=give_way
traffic_calming=table
Perhaps a separate node for traffic_calming=table if you want to go to that
detail.
This avoids drop or raised curbs and if they are understood for crossing a side
street ..
I'd think curbs would usually follow the corners so that
sent from a phone
> On 15. Jun 2018, at 08:32, Peter Elderson wrote:
>
> Driveway is to and from a private property, I think?
driveway is _on_ a private property
cheers,
Martin
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sent from a phone
> On 15. Jun 2018, at 08:28, Peter Elderson wrote:
>
> The street is residential, but the exit is over a sidewalk, with a dropped
> curb. That's the piece I'm talking about: not the street, just the exit.
>
> Rules (legally) implied are that traffic can pass over this
If I understand this correctly, this is a T-junction, where
1. the main road traffic has precedence (equivalent of highway=give_way
plus direction=forward|backward on the joining road)
2. pedestrians can cross and have precedence (highway=crossing plus
crossing=unmarked)
3. some
it look like a pedistrian crossing and a traffic calming
highway=crossing + crossing=unmarked
traffic_calming=table
if the standard maxspeed for a traffic_calming is not the same
as for a "street exit", the easy think todo is to create a new
traffic_calming value like traffic_calming=street_exit
>
> We're looking for a simple way to indicate what's there without tagging all
> the details and implications separately.
as I wrote before (but simplified)
highway=crossing
crossing="whatever name you want to give to this construction"
for car drivers it's a crossing with a "construction"
Speed limit is only implied for the part crossing the sidewalk. The street
behind it can have different speed limits, usually it is part of a "30 Kmph
zone", but that is not implied or necessary.
The level of detail: sidewalks and kerbs are not usually mapped. It's not
realistic to start doing
From: Peter Elderson
Sent: Friday, 15 June 2018 16:29
To: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools
Subject: Re: [Tagging] Street exits
The street is residential, but the exit is over a sidewalk, with a dropped
curb. That's the piece I'm talking about: not the street, just the exit.
Where is the maxspeed 15 km/h, only on the crossing with the sidewalk
? Then that is similar to traffic calming tables in Belgium, where the
max speed is also lower.
I would just map a point on the road with highway=crossing;
crossing="dutch_exit_construction_type". and perhaps a small segment
of
A quick search shows that it's probably not a "living street", as the concept
does exist in the Netherlands, but does require explicit signs like in Germany:
https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woonerf
Also, in my experience "living streets" usually lack a clear kerb and
distinction between road and
Driveway is to and from a private property, I think? The difference is that
this exit is from a public street with normal traffic. Routable.
2018-06-15 8:17 GMT+02:00 Graeme Fitzpatrick :
> Sorry if I've misunderstood Peter, but is there any difference between
> this & a normal driveway?
>
>
The street is residential, but the exit is over a sidewalk, with a dropped
curb. That's the piece I'm talking about: not the street, just the exit.
Rules (legally) implied are that traffic can pass over this sidewalk, but
has to give way to all sides and all others including pedestrians. Speed is
If you follow the road in SV, you can see that it’s a normal road with it’s own
name, and connections to other roads.
My first impulse was also “if it’s treated like a driveway, tag it as a
driveway”, but it clearly isn’t one once you are actually in the road.
It’s only the part where it
Sorry if I've misunderstood Peter, but is there any difference between this
& a normal driveway?
Thanks
Graeme
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sent from a phone
> On 15. Jun 2018, at 08:04, Peter Elderson wrote:
>
> "If it looks like a driveway exit, treat it like a driveway exit" is the
> idea. Don't bother with signs, just use more sidewalk pavement.
For me this piece of street does not look like a driveway, I would call it a
In Nederland we have a growing number of "exit constructions", where
traffic has to cross a section of sidewalk to join the larger road. There
is no traffic sign for this, it is indicated by the construction and lining
of the join section. "If it looks like a driveway exit, treat it like a
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