Warin 61sundowner at gmail.com
Sat Jan 17 21:27:13 UTC 2015
Less work if intermittent is simply used without the frequency extension
.. thus:
intermittent=yes/no/winter/spring/summer/autum/seasonal/ephemeral (default
assumption of no)
Note 'fall' = northern American english,
No! Flood prone means that they are expected to be flooded from time to
time. Nothing about the design.
So you would have to tag also each wadi, each river and each lake
because this area is covered with water? Maybe the terms “designed”
and “expected” are missleading. But the question is: How
The flood prone areas are not designed to let you cross a river
Yes. I think that is exactly the important point and a very good
description/criterion. flood_prone=yes for things that are _not_
designed to be flooded. And waterway=*, ford=* … for things that _are_
designed/expected to be
On 21/01/2015 10:03 AM, tagging-requ...@openstreetmap.org wrote:
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2015 14:43:16 +
From: Lukas Sommersommer...@gmail.com
To: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools
tagging@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Tagging] waterway=wadi problem
Message-ID:
CAFTrL
Some part of road have
concrete parts that are flood_prone during cyclone.
How can we (or not) extend it to roads?
access:conditional = no @ flood
I'm using flood_prone=yes. With surface=concrete.
But I was looking for some method to unify intermittent aspects of rivers and
I think using flood_prone on places designed to handle water (like a ford) is
incorrect. The sections of a freeway that are closed off during flooding (a
lane is closed because storm waters cannot properly drain away, or cuttings
under train crossings with flood level markers because the road
My main suggestion would be to re-use the same scheme as
Key:opening_hours to define the time when the waterway is likely to
flow.
I would also discard rare/frequent as too subjective. Instead:
approximate duration are not perfect but should improve mutual
understanding.
For instance as in:
On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 12:14:53PM -0800, Tod Fitch wrote:
usually you will assume it if there are ponds of open water or swamps
in several places along a valley.
A pond/swamp/oasis/cienega in an arid or even semi-arid area is a significant
feature that deserve mapping in its own
Please, no intermittent=ephemeral. Key intermittent was defined to have
only a single valid value,
turning it into free-form tag is a bad idea.
Maybe intermittent=yes, intermittent:type=ephemeral?
2015-01-17 13:47 GMT+01:00 Richard Z. ricoz@gmail.com:
On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 02:44:27PM
On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 07:50:36AM -0800, Tod Fitch wrote:
Based on where I sometimes see old wind driven pumps, I'd guess that many
longer (10s of miles long) washes have an underground flow.
I think so.
On the other hand, in the field or using Bing imagery neither I nor any other
On Jan 17, 2015, at 11:52 AM, Richard Z. wrote:
On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 07:50:36AM -0800, Tod Fitch wrote:
Based on where I sometimes see old wind driven pumps, I'd guess that many
longer (10s of miles long) washes have an underground flow.
I think so.
On the other hand, in the
On Jan 17, 2015, at 1:41 PM, Steve Doerr wrote:
On 17/01/2015 21:27, Warin wrote:
Note 'fall' = northern American english, 'autum' for english english ?
No, it's 'autumn' in British English.
Comments: An intermittent=winter may not flow every winter .. but it is
'expected' to flow
Looking around in Wikipedia:
Wash = Arroyo = Barranca = Wadi = Rambla = normally dry river bed, often
subject to flash floods in case of upstream rain.
If we have the the established term wadi for this, why create additional
nearly synonymous tags?
On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 11:41:26AM +0900, johnw wrote:
I strongly disagree. A wadi is usually only an active river through very rare
flash flood events, and almost never any other time. Entire biomes are
defined by the presence of (and situated in) a wadi.
how about reading wikipedia?
I now notice that I read the German Wikipedia entry for Wadi, which is
plainly different form the English one. My fault.
The English Wikipedia defines Wadi mainly as a valley, wheras the German on
as a normally dry water course.
On 16 January 2015 at 13:02, Richard Z. ricoz@gmail.com wrote:
Since we are supposed to use British English, I decided to look up wadi in my
old paper edition of the Oxford English Dictionary (can we trust that more than
Wikipedia?):
Wadi or Wady [Arabic: وادي wādī] In certain Arabic speaking countries, a
ravine or valley which in the rainy season
On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 08:23:33AM -0800, Tod Fitch wrote:
Since we are supposed to use British English, I decided to look up wadi in my
old paper edition of the Oxford English Dictionary (can we trust that more
than Wikipedia?):
Wadi or Wady [Arabic: وادي wādī] In certain Arabic speaking
Since the current term wadi can mean something more than the actual
watercourse, why not drop it and use ephemeral=yes or
intermittent=ephemeral on waterway=* to indicate that it carries water much
less often than a waterway tagged with intermittent=yes?
I would recommend expanding the definition of intermittent streams to
include not only streams that have a regular, seasonal water flow but also
streams in desert areas that exist only when a rare storm comes along. The
topography is the same, the tendency of water to run downhill is the same,
as far as I am aware, a wash, an arroyo, and a wadi are functionally the same.
It is mostly a separation of language - where the words wash, arroyo, and wadi
are basically the same functional thing, however Wadi and arroyo, in some
regions, also have a wider definition that includes other
On Jan 15, 2015, at 6:13 PM, Christoph Hormann chris_horm...@gmx.de wrote:
On Thursday 15 January 2015, johnw wrote:
A wadi is a place where flash floods occur. It is not an intermittent
river - it isn’t really seasonally wet, and doesn’t provide any real
expectation that water will be
Given the current discussion, I wonder if roads that are usually flooded
during heavy rainfall should be also be tagged as waterway=river/stream and
intermittent=yes. ;-)
On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 7:27 AM, John F. Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.com
wrote:
I would recommend expanding the definition of
That’s all of San Diego - the storm drain system is so anemic - I’ve
hydroplaned my car down the freeway (“Surfing interstate 5”), and forded a few
“intermittent” rivers before I moved to Japan. here in Japan, torrential rain
is really a non-issue most of the time - whereas a few cm of rain in
On Thursday 15 January 2015, johnw wrote:
A wadi is a place where flash floods occur. It is not an intermittent
river - it isn’t really seasonally wet, and doesn’t provide any real
expectation that water will be present (except deep underground) -
because they are located in places where rain
Am 15.01.2015 um 05:27 schrieb John Willis jo...@mac.com:
I'm really surprised you were shot down from using wadi when it is the most
applicable tag for the item,
sometimes the most applicable tag is not sufficiently well describing/
distinguishing a feature and it is better to
It would be nice if the default rendering at www.openstreetmap.org would
also recognize the intermittent tag.
Implementing that I mentioned in top post is for default style - see
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/pull/1000
2015-01-14 18:00 GMT+01:00 Tod Fitch
I strongly disagree. A wadi is usually only an active river through very rare
flash flood events, and almost never any other time. Entire biomes are defined
by the presence of (and situated in) a wadi.
In america, the words Arroyo and wash roughly translate into wadi, and because
of the
On Jan 15, 2015, at 2:00 AM, Tod Fitch t...@fitchdesign.com wrote:
On Jan 14, 2015, at 8:28 AM, Wolfgang Zenker wrote:
In my experience a wadi will go from completely dried up waterway or
small stream to a raging river within a few seconds after some
rainfall upstream, and back to its
waterway=wadi is used (18 180 times) and has some support (for example JOSM
and
default map style).
During implementing rendering of intermittent=yes I discovered major
problem with this tag -
the same waterway=wadi may be used for completely dried up waterway,
intermittent stream,
intermittent
Can you consider making proposal for waterway=wadi on wiki?
Or maybe other tag, as waterway=wadi is frequently used to mark
intermittent streams?
Currently http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:waterway%3Dwadi is
not mentioning anything like that.
Note, I am not disputing usefulness of term
I’ll make one up in the next few hours. I want to research wadis in other
countries to make sure I’m not assuming my regional experience is
misrepresenting the whole.
Javbw
On Jan 15, 2015, at 3:24 PM, Mateusz Konieczny matkoni...@gmail.com wrote:
Can you consider making proposal for
* Mateusz Konieczny matkoni...@gmail.com [150114 15:45]:
waterway=wadi is used (18 180 times) and has some support (for example JOSM
and default map style).
During implementing rendering of intermittent=yes I discovered major
problem with this tag -
the same waterway=wadi may be used for
On Jan 14, 2015, at 8:28 AM, Wolfgang Zenker wrote:
* Mateusz Konieczny matkoni...@gmail.com [150114 15:45]:
waterway=wadi is used (18 180 times) and has some support (for example JOSM
and default map style).
During implementing rendering of intermittent=yes I discovered major
problem with
On Wednesday 14 January 2015, Tod Fitch wrote:
[...]
The United States Geological Survey (USGS) topographic maps will show
them as either a line of sand or an intermittent waterway depending,
I think, on whim of the cartographer.
USGS data distinguishes between intermittent, perennial and
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