Re: [OSM-talk] Zero tolerance on imports

2011-02-19 Thread Nathan Edgars II
Richard Fairhurst wrote: > > This is getting crazy. > > Exhibit 1: > http://twitter.com/#!/maproomblog/status/39053538692698112 > > "Whoever imported CanVec in Aylmer, Quebec obliterated hours of work and > introduced hundreds of errors. #osm #openstreetmap #whybother" > I wonder how many c

Re: [OSM-talk] Zero tolerance on imports

2011-02-19 Thread Julio Costa Zambelli
Dear Richard and everyone else, We have a totally different experience here. We have done some import processes here in Chile, probably not more than four or five till now, I talked about the suburban highways import process in my "State of Chile" presentation in Amsterdam, and after that we added

Re: [OSM-talk] Zero tolerance on imports

2011-02-19 Thread Nathan Edgars II
Daniel Sabo wrote: > > I would think (or at least hope) that this kind of bad import would be > less of an issue if the revert tools were not so arcane. My previous > attempts are reverting stuff have always ended up with manual XML fiddling > to get the desired results. > I don't know how rece

Re: [OSM-talk] Zero tolerance on imports

2011-02-19 Thread Daniel Sabo
On Feb 19, 2011, at 4:03 PM, Richard Fairhurst wrote: > From what I can tell (talk-ca postings etc.) 'sammuell' is a fairly > inexperienced OSMer who presumably thinks "this is how things are done". It > isn't. How do we stop this impression taking hold? How do we explain that > imports are _not

Re: [OSM-talk] Zero tolerance on imports

2011-02-19 Thread Nathan Edgars II
Andrew Errington-2 wrote: > > Anyway, I like the idea of using imports as a 'scaffold' for building real > objects. Imported data could sit on a separate layer, much like GPS > traces, > then a mapper can either trace over the imported shapes, or select an > imported object and 'promote' it

Re: [OSM-talk] Zero tolerance on imports

2011-02-19 Thread Daniel Sabo
On Feb 19, 2011, at 4:27 PM, Nic Roets wrote: > On Sun, Feb 20, 2011 at 2:03 AM, Richard Fairhurst > wrote: >> This is getting crazy. >> >> Exhibit 1: >> http://twitter.com/#!/maproomblog/status/39053538692698112 >> >> "Whoever imported CanVec in Aylmer, Quebec obliterated hours of work and >

Re: [OSM-talk] History flow visualizations of contributions over time

2011-02-19 Thread Richard Weait
On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 6:59 AM, Eric Marsden wrote: > Hi, > > I have been experimenting with rendering history flow visualizations of > Openstreetmap contributors for a region. These charts show the most > prolific contributors in the region and how their contribution volume > changed over time.

Re: [OSM-talk] Zero tolerance on imports

2011-02-19 Thread Mike N
On 2/19/2011 8:48 PM, Andrew Errington wrote: Anyway, I like the idea of using imports as a 'scaffold' for building real objects. Imported data could sit on a separate layer, much like GPS traces, then a mapper can either trace over the imported shapes, or select an imported object and 'promote'

Re: [OSM-talk] Zero tolerance on imports

2011-02-19 Thread john
I have also encountered situations where an imported road is in the correct location, but is incorrectly tagged, such as with the name of a street that is actually a couple of miles away. The imported data may also lack Points Of Interest, or a given POI may be out of date (for example, I found

Re: [OSM-talk] Zero tolerance on imports

2011-02-19 Thread Andrew Errington
On Sun, 20 Feb 2011 10:16:10 Mike N wrote: > On 2/19/2011 8:04 PM, Andrew Errington wrote: > > Imports aren't always bad. Consider the equivalent case of one or > more mappers who worked heavily in your area 2 years ago. You might > discover errors and lack of new roads and come to the same con

Re: [OSM-talk] Zero tolerance on imports

2011-02-19 Thread john
In Nashville, Tennessee, USA, where I live, most of the existing data came from the TIGER import (mapping done by census workers). In the areas that I have checked, about 60% of the data appears to be correct; about 20% needs tweaking for issues such as one or two streets in a neighborhood bein

[OSM-talk] Shutting down transiki & glider

2011-02-19 Thread Steve Coast
I'm offering anyone who wants to take over transiki or glider the chance to do so, and their domains will auto-expire otherwise. Changing jobs, continuing OSM work and lack of bandwidth is why. Transiki.org, a transit wiki got initial buzz and followers on the list but I've just not had the ti

Re: [OSM-talk] Zero tolerance on imports

2011-02-19 Thread Mike N
On 2/19/2011 8:04 PM, Andrew Errington wrote: > Imports are bad. It's > bad because I discover errors and start to think 'How many more errors must > there be?'. It's mainly bad for two reasons. Firstly, the data is old, and > there has been a significant road-building program going on here f

Re: [OSM-talk] Zero tolerance on imports

2011-02-19 Thread Andrew Errington
On Sun, 20 Feb 2011 09:40:03 Frederik Ramm wrote: > Finally, all these warnings must sound hollow to someone who lives in a > place where 90% of data around him is imported. You will have a hard > time telling him that imports are bad. I live in a place where 90% of the data is imported. Imports

Re: [OSM-talk] Zero tolerance on imports

2011-02-19 Thread Frederik Ramm
Hi, Richard Fairhurst wrote: It isn't. How do we stop this impression taking hold? How do we explain that imports are _not_ welcome except as a last resort, and if you do them, you _must_ follow a very, very rigorous set of guidelines? Find out what tools the importers are using. Place very b

Re: [OSM-talk] Zero tolerance on imports

2011-02-19 Thread Nic Roets
On Sun, Feb 20, 2011 at 2:03 AM, Richard Fairhurst wrote: > This is getting crazy. > > Exhibit 1: > http://twitter.com/#!/maproomblog/status/39053538692698112 > > "Whoever imported CanVec in Aylmer, Quebec obliterated hours of work and > introduced hundreds of errors. #osm #openstreetmap #whybothe

Re: [OSM-talk] Why no link from osm.org to osmbugs.org?

2011-02-19 Thread Mitja Kleider
Hello Nic, On Sun, 2011-02-20 at 02:01 +0200, Nic Roets wrote: > On Sun, Feb 20, 2011 at 1:38 AM, Mitja Kleider wrote: > > I agree it needs some updates. I did not want to spend my time on > > services that are going to be replaced anyway. I would still prefer > > integration into osm.org, but am

[OSM-talk] Zero tolerance on imports

2011-02-19 Thread Richard Fairhurst
This is getting crazy. Exhibit 1: http://twitter.com/#!/maproomblog/status/39053538692698112 "Whoever imported CanVec in Aylmer, Quebec obliterated hours of work and introduced hundreds of errors. #osm #openstreetmap #whybother" Once again, some keyboard jockey has decided that his l337 impor

Re: [OSM-talk] Why no link from osm.org to osmbugs.org?

2011-02-19 Thread Mitja Kleider
On Sat, 2011-02-19 at 17:30 +, Richard Mann wrote: > There's probably some good reason, but why isn't there a link from > osm.org to report a bug? I do not know the direct answer to that question. There had been some efforts to integrate "data bug reports" into the main website [1]. As far as

Re: [OSM-talk] Why no link from osm.org to osmbugs.org?

2011-02-19 Thread Jean-Guilhem Cailton
Le 19/02/2011 19:27, Dave F. a écrit : > On 19/02/2011 17:30, Richard Mann wrote: >> There's probably some good reason, but why isn't there a link from >> osm.org to report a bug? >> > > Could it be because not many people use it? > > I still don't understand why, in a collaborative project, t

Re: [OSM-talk] Why no link from osm.org to osmbugs.org?

2011-02-19 Thread Shaun McDonald
On 19 Feb 2011, at 18:27, Dave F. wrote: > On 19/02/2011 17:30, Richard Mann wrote: >> >> There's probably some good reason, but why isn't there a link from >> osm.org to report a bug? > > Could it be because not many people use it? > > I still don't understand why, in a collaborative project,

Re: [OSM-talk] Why no link from osm.org to osmbugs.org?

2011-02-19 Thread Dave F.
On 19/02/2011 17:30, Richard Mann wrote: There's probably some good reason, but why isn't there a link from osm.org to report a bug? Could it be because not many people use it? I still don't understand why, in a collaborative project, that osmbugs is used as a record to get other people to am

[OSM-talk] Why no link from osm.org to osmbugs.org?

2011-02-19 Thread Richard Mann
There's probably some good reason, but why isn't there a link from osm.org to report a bug? At the moment, my advice to a potential reporter would be: 1) use osm.org 2) spot an error 3) use osmbugs.org (and wonder who schokokeks is and why it shows the whole of Europe) 4) rezoom to the place wher

Re: [OSM-talk] Why isn't any XAPI server available ?

2011-02-19 Thread Graham Jones
I must admit that I didn't know that there was a working instance of TRAPI - I thought it was just a proposal. I tend to use xapi to get town or city sized chunks of OSM data, without any clever processing - would TRAPI be better for this than XAPI, or is it limited to smaller areas? Graham. On 1

Re: [OSM-talk] Why isn't any XAPI server available ?

2011-02-19 Thread Maarten Deen
Patrick Kilian wrote: Hi, For simple map calls there is TRAPI[1]. As far as I know, TRAPI performs much better on map (bbox) queries than either the main-API, XAPI or ROMA (on equivalent hardware). Rather than using a database, I think it used a pre-tiled file structure, so that it simple need

Re: [OSM-talk] Why isn't any XAPI server available ?

2011-02-19 Thread Patrick Kilian
Hi, > For simple map calls there is TRAPI[1]. As far as I know, TRAPI performs > much better on map (bbox) queries than either the main-API, XAPI or ROMA (on > equivalent hardware). Rather than using a database, I think it used a > pre-tiled file structure, so that it simple needs to peace togeth

Re: [OSM-talk] Why isn't any XAPI server available ?

2011-02-19 Thread Kai Krueger
Nic Roets wrote: > > So a good data structure that can answer most map (bbox) > calls with a single disk seek is what is needed. (Not a debate on the > best programming language). > For simple map calls there is TRAPI[1]. As far as I know, TRAPI performs much better on map (bbox) queries than

[OSM-talk] History flow visualizations of contributions over time

2011-02-19 Thread Eric Marsden
Hi, I have been experimenting with rendering history flow visualizations of Openstreetmap contributors for a region. These charts show the most prolific contributors in the region and how their contribution volume changed over time. Some sample visualizations for Paris, London, Berlin, Wien, Toul

Re: [OSM-talk] Why isn't any XAPI server available ?

2011-02-19 Thread Nic Roets
Let me just explain what I see as the major performance bottleneck with and API implementation: Disk seeks. A typical computer can perform a million calculations while waiting for the disk to fetch a few bytes. So a good data structure that can answer most map (bbox) calls with a single disk seek i

Re: [OSM-talk] Why isn't any XAPI server available ?

2011-02-19 Thread Patrick Kilian
Hi, > Am I missing something here...? People are complaining about how bogged > down and slow the current service is, so its being re-written in java? > Is there any language slower or more resource intensive than java? If > the service isnt designed to be portable (it only runs on one system >