Re: [OSM-talk] QA tool for finding nameless highways that are armchair-fixable

[Maarten Deen]

> Op 28-11-2022 05:18 CET schreef stevea :

> I'll be curious to hear feedback from this, too.  Thanks for your efforts, 
> Lukas:  I genuinely hope they help our map!

I can see a use when you have three consecutive segments of a road, where the 
first and the last are named (the same) and the middle is not. This might 
indicate an omission.
But it is not guaranteed of course.
Every unnamed way that branches or has a junction is difficult to name in an 
armchair way.

Regards,
Maarten

> 
> 
> > On Nov 27, 2022, at 3:43 PM, Dave F via talk  wrote:
> > 
> > Most roads don't have names.
> > 
> > Any comparison has to be done against an authoritative database or on 
> > ground surveying, for the area in which you're searching.
> > 
> > "where the name can be interpolated from neighbouring ways. This allows to 
> > detect and armchair-fix a (small) subset of these cases with high 
> > confidence. "
> > 
> > I have a "high confidence" interpolation, from an armchair or anywhere, 
> > will lead to inaccurate data being added to the OSM database.
> > 
> > Cheers
> > DaveF
> > 
> > 
> > On 27/11/2022 20:16, Lukas Toggenburger via talk wrote:
> >> Hi all
> >> 
> >> As you might know, OSM data contains a lot of highway=* without name=*. 
> >> Check your region using the following query:
> >> 
> >> https://overpass-turbo.eu/?Q=way%0A%20%20%5Bhighway%5D%5B!name%5D%0A%20%20(%7B%7Bbbox%7D%7D)%3B%0Aout%20body%3B%0A%3E%3B%0Aout%20skel%20qt%3B
> >> 
> >> I wrote a Python tool (using Sarah Hoffmann's pyosmium) at 
> >> https://gitlab.com/ltog/ohni that is able to detect such highways in a 
> >> planet (extract) file and report the ones, where the name can be 
> >> interpolated from neighbouring ways. This allows to detect and 
> >> armchair-fix a (small) subset of these cases with high confidence. The 
> >> tool is tailored to minimize false-positives.
> >> 
> >> Please check it out and give feedback.
> >> 
> >> Best regards
> >> 
> >> Lukas

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Re: [OSM-talk] Rent-a-crowd needed JOSM Microsoft store

[john whelan]

I forget where but it has been said that it is legal and that is the reason
JOSM is now available via the store.

Cheerio John

On Sun, Nov 27, 2022, 11:43 PM James,  wrote:

> IANAL but GPL v2 does allow to charge for distribution. Is it ethical, lol
> no, would lawyers care? Probably not
>
> On Sun, Nov 27, 2022, 11:30 PM stevea  wrote:
>
>> Yes, thanks much, James!  (For linking "Reporting Infringement to
>> Microsoft").  I do wonder if simply forking and charging money for existing
>> open-source software is an egregious slap in the face to OSM (JOSM
>> developers, especially), although I'm not an attorney.  So, I'd urge our
>> LWG / legal-beagles to take a look at this, please.
>>
>> On the other hand, if there is something "value-added" to the fork that
>> justifies charging money, maybe it's OK.
>>
>> > On Nov 27, 2022, at 8:26 PM, James  wrote:
>> >
>> > https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/legal/intellectualproperty/infringement
>> >
>> > On Sun, Nov 27, 2022, 11:15 PM john whelan 
>> wrote:
>> > You can only leave a review if you download the software.
>> >
>> > Both are JOSM, one is a fork which costs money which goes to the person
>> who created the fork the other is normal JOSM which is free.
>> >
>> > Cheerio John
>> > 
>>
>>
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[talk-au] listing of objects wikipedia/wikidata/etc tags with some problems

[Mateusz Konieczny via Talk-au]

I have created https://matkoniecz.github.io/OSM-wikipedia-tag-validator-reports/
which lists OSM objects that have some problems requiring review

There is a report for number of areas, including for Australia:

https://matkoniecz.github.io/OSM-wikipedia-tag-validator-reports/Australia.html
(merged report for Australia)

Or more specifically for parts of Australia (links later).

If anyone is interested: feel free to use this list to fix this bogus 
wikipedia/wikidata links.

Please, let me know if anything is confusing, incorrect, invalid or broken.
Or if you want some specific area/country not listed so far.



There are also reports at 
https://matkoniecz.github.io/OSM-wikipedia-tag-validator-reports/Australia%20-%20obvious.html
which are about a bit different issues, but they depend on a local data
or community and some may need upgrade to human review and
some may need to be hidden:

Is OSM data for wikipedia/wikidata tags good enough that
following wikipedia redirects (where wikidata matches) could be 
done automatically?
Or is it requiring human review (because someone added wikidata
of redirect targets with bot, for example)?
https://matkoniecz.github.io/OSM-wikipedia-tag-validator-reports/Australia%20-%20obvious.html#wikipedia%20wikidata%20mismatch%20-%20follow%20wikipedia%20redirect

Would you expect wikipedia tags to link English language Wikipedia 
where possible? Or is linking any language version OK?

Would you consider useful to add wikipedia tag where only wikidata tag
is present as useful (for increased human readability of tags)?

Would you consider useful to add wikidata tag where only wikipedia tag
is present as useful (for increased stability of tags and to allow
fixing redirects if wikipedia article changes title in the future)?



specific areas (once this issues are fixed I will enable more areas,
until entire Australia is being checked)

Tasmania - 25 reported issues
https://matkoniecz.github.io/OSM-wikipedia-tag-validator-reports/Australia:%20Tasmania.html

New South Wales - 29 issues
https://matkoniecz.github.io/OSM-wikipedia-tag-validator-reports/Australia:%20New%20South%20Wales%20(Nowa%20Po%C5%82udniowa%20Walia).html

Queensland (found 36 problems)
https://matkoniecz.github.io/OSM-wikipedia-tag-validator-reports/Australia:%20Queensland.html

And also following with 0 reported issues right now, thanks to
people who fixed them!
Australia Capital Territory
https://matkoniecz.github.io/OSM-wikipedia-tag-validator-reports/Australia%20Capital%20Territory.html

Christmas Island
https://matkoniecz.github.io/OSM-wikipedia-tag-validator-reports/Australia:%20Christmas%20Island%20(Wyspa%20Bo%C5%BCego%20Narodzenia).html

Cocos Islands
https://matkoniecz.github.io/OSM-wikipedia-tag-validator-reports/Australia:%20Cocos%20(Keeling)%20Islands%20(Wyspy%20Kokosowe).html

Northern Territory
https://matkoniecz.github.io/OSM-wikipedia-tag-validator-reports/Australia:%20Northern%20Territory%20(Terytorium%20P%C3%B3%C5%82nocne).html
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Re: [OSM-talk] Rent-a-crowd needed JOSM Microsoft store

[James]

IANAL but GPL v2 does allow to charge for distribution. Is it ethical, lol
no, would lawyers care? Probably not

On Sun, Nov 27, 2022, 11:30 PM stevea  wrote:

> Yes, thanks much, James!  (For linking "Reporting Infringement to
> Microsoft").  I do wonder if simply forking and charging money for existing
> open-source software is an egregious slap in the face to OSM (JOSM
> developers, especially), although I'm not an attorney.  So, I'd urge our
> LWG / legal-beagles to take a look at this, please.
>
> On the other hand, if there is something "value-added" to the fork that
> justifies charging money, maybe it's OK.
>
> > On Nov 27, 2022, at 8:26 PM, James  wrote:
> >
> > https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/legal/intellectualproperty/infringement
> >
> > On Sun, Nov 27, 2022, 11:15 PM john whelan 
> wrote:
> > You can only leave a review if you download the software.
> >
> > Both are JOSM, one is a fork which costs money which goes to the person
> who created the fork the other is normal JOSM which is free.
> >
> > Cheerio John
> > 
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Rent-a-crowd needed JOSM Microsoft store

[stevea]

Yes, thanks much, James!  (For linking "Reporting Infringement to Microsoft").  
I do wonder if simply forking and charging money for existing open-source 
software is an egregious slap in the face to OSM (JOSM developers, especially), 
although I'm not an attorney.  So, I'd urge our LWG / legal-beagles to take a 
look at this, please.

On the other hand, if there is something "value-added" to the fork that 
justifies charging money, maybe it's OK.

> On Nov 27, 2022, at 8:26 PM, James  wrote:
> 
> https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/legal/intellectualproperty/infringement
> 
> On Sun, Nov 27, 2022, 11:15 PM john whelan  wrote:
> You can only leave a review if you download the software.
> 
> Both are JOSM, one is a fork which costs money which goes to the person who 
> created the fork the other is normal JOSM which is free.
> 
> Cheerio John
> 


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Re: [OSM-talk] Rent-a-crowd needed JOSM Microsoft store

[James]

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/legal/intellectualproperty/infringement

On Sun, Nov 27, 2022, 11:15 PM john whelan  wrote:

> You can only leave a review if you download the software.
>
> Both are JOSM, one is a fork which costs money which goes to the person
> who created the fork the other is normal JOSM which is free.
>
> Cheerio John
>
> On Sun, Nov 27, 2022, 11:01 PM stevea,  wrote:
>
>> If choosing which version is "legitimate" (or preferred) is important,
>> and "leaving a review" is a (one) method for communicating that, I would
>> underscore that if you do leave a review, make very clear how one differs
>> from the other.
>>
>> On Nov 27, 2022, at 5:33 PM, john whelan  wrote:
>> >
>> > Agreed but some do and currently both have one review each so it isn't
>> that clear which is the official OpenStreetMap editor.
>> >
>> > Even a couple more reviews would help.
>> >
>> > Thanks
>> >
>> > Cheerio John
>> 
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] QA tool for finding nameless highways that are armchair-fixable

[stevea]

Without wishing to "diss" (disparage) Lukas's tool (I haven't evaluated it), I 
would also urge caution here, for exactly the reasons DaveF outlines.  I'm also 
a partly-armchair mapper, but not (usually, if ever) using Python tools, rather 
knowing that my "armchair-ing" is going to be of high quality because I 
well-understand (and have many years of practice) with OSM's tenets of "on the 
ground verifiability" and such.  I'm also a "real world" mapper (where I "get 
out into the real world" and use a GPS and a notepad/pencil...), which I 
believe should be a prerequisite for being an armchair mapper:  that's how you 
learn and get good at knowing how to armchair-map with high quality and without 
guesswork that can (and usually does) lead to errors being entered.

Especially with going from "no name" to setting a name=* tag to "something" 
(authoritative), this can be a very ticklish undertaking, I've experienced the 
difficulty in doing this first-hand, and I usually "duck out" (end the 
endeavor) as "too likely to introduce specious errors into our map data."

High quality armchair mapping (which does not introduce errors) is not easy:  
it takes practice, knowing what you are doing, likely some deeper knowledge of 
the geographic area, "how things are done (and/or mapped) around there" and 
probably something like "I know quite well how to map bike routes (train 
routes, landuse, forest boundaries..., or whatever you might be mapping)."  If 
you meet all of those "high bar" quality standards, AND you understand what 
Lukas' Python / pyosmium software does / will do, you might want to check it 
out and see if it can be a "power tool" for your armchair mapping.  I've set 
high-quality standards for myself (really, I wouldn't map in OSM if I did not), 
perhaps you should, too.  And then, and only then, maybe use power tools to 
help you, going slow at first, with caution and evaluating your own feedback 
from the map.

I'll be curious to hear feedback from this, too.  Thanks for your efforts, 
Lukas:  I genuinely hope they help our map!


> On Nov 27, 2022, at 3:43 PM, Dave F via talk  wrote:
> 
> Most roads don't have names.
> 
> Any comparison has to be done against an authoritative database or on ground 
> surveying, for the area in which you're searching.
> 
> "where the name can be interpolated from neighbouring ways. This allows to 
> detect and armchair-fix a (small) subset of these cases with high confidence. 
> "
> 
> I have a "high confidence" interpolation, from an armchair or anywhere, will 
> lead to inaccurate data being added to the OSM database.
> 
> Cheers
> DaveF
> 
> 
> On 27/11/2022 20:16, Lukas Toggenburger via talk wrote:
>> Hi all
>> 
>> As you might know, OSM data contains a lot of highway=* without name=*. 
>> Check your region using the following query:
>> 
>> https://overpass-turbo.eu/?Q=way%0A%20%20%5Bhighway%5D%5B!name%5D%0A%20%20(%7B%7Bbbox%7D%7D)%3B%0Aout%20body%3B%0A%3E%3B%0Aout%20skel%20qt%3B
>> 
>> I wrote a Python tool (using Sarah Hoffmann's pyosmium) at 
>> https://gitlab.com/ltog/ohni that is able to detect such highways in a 
>> planet (extract) file and report the ones, where the name can be 
>> interpolated from neighbouring ways. This allows to detect and armchair-fix 
>> a (small) subset of these cases with high confidence. The tool is tailored 
>> to minimize false-positives.
>> 
>> Please check it out and give feedback.
>> 
>> Best regards
>> 
>> Lukas
>> 
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>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
> 
> 
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Re: [OSM-talk] Rent-a-crowd needed JOSM Microsoft store

[john whelan]

You can only leave a review if you download the software.

Both are JOSM, one is a fork which costs money which goes to the person who
created the fork the other is normal JOSM which is free.

Cheerio John

On Sun, Nov 27, 2022, 11:01 PM stevea,  wrote:

> If choosing which version is "legitimate" (or preferred) is important, and
> "leaving a review" is a (one) method for communicating that, I would
> underscore that if you do leave a review, make very clear how one differs
> from the other.
>
> On Nov 27, 2022, at 5:33 PM, john whelan  wrote:
> >
> > Agreed but some do and currently both have one review each so it isn't
> that clear which is the official OpenStreetMap editor.
> >
> > Even a couple more reviews would help.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Cheerio John
> 
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Re: [OSM-talk] Rent-a-crowd needed JOSM Microsoft store

[James]

https://apps.microsoft.com/store/detail/openstreet-map-editor/9MVMVXFPM5SV


https://apps.microsoft.com/store/detail/josm/XPFCG1GV0WWGZX

On Sun, Nov 27, 2022, 11:01 PM stevea  wrote:

> If choosing which version is "legitimate" (or preferred) is important, and
> "leaving a review" is a (one) method for communicating that, I would
> underscore that if you do leave a review, make very clear how one differs
> from the other.
>
> On Nov 27, 2022, at 5:33 PM, john whelan  wrote:
> >
> > Agreed but some do and currently both have one review each so it isn't
> that clear which is the official OpenStreetMap editor.
> >
> > Even a couple more reviews would help.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Cheerio John
> 
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Re: [OSM-talk] Rent-a-crowd needed JOSM Microsoft store

[stevea]

If choosing which version is "legitimate" (or preferred) is important, and 
"leaving a review" is a (one) method for communicating that, I would underscore 
that if you do leave a review, make very clear how one differs from the other.

On Nov 27, 2022, at 5:33 PM, john whelan  wrote:
> 
> Agreed but some do and currently both have one review each so it isn't that 
> clear which is the official OpenStreetMap editor.
> 
> Even a couple more reviews would help.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Cheerio John

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Re: [OSM-talk] Rent-a-crowd needed JOSM Microsoft store

[john whelan]

Agreed but some do and currently both have one review each so it isn't that
clear which is the official OpenStreetMap editor.

Even a couple more reviews would help.

Thanks

Cheerio John

On Sun, Nov 27, 2022, 20:27 James  wrote:

> not everyone runs winblows
>
> On Sun, Nov 27, 2022, 8:19 PM John Whelan  wrote:
>
>> On a windows machine do a search for Microsoft store.  Then search for
>> JOSM.  Download it then you can leave a review.  The more reviews it has
>> the more it looks as if it is the legitimate version.
>>
>> The other version which is a fork of JOSM is called  OpenStreetMap editor
>> and has a JOSM screen shot and costs $5.99 can.
>>
>> Thanks John
>>
>> Dave F wrote on 11/27/2022 7:15 PM:
>>
>> Link(s)?
>>
>> On 30/10/2022 18:47, john whelan wrote:
>>
>> There are two versions of JOSM available on the Microsoft store.  One is
>> a fork and costs money the other is the kosher version.
>>
>> It might be helpful if JOSM had a few reviews to make it stand out from
>> the other version.
>>
>> Thanks John
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>> --
>> Sent from Postbox 
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Re: [OSM-talk] Rent-a-crowd needed JOSM Microsoft store

[James]

not everyone runs winblows

On Sun, Nov 27, 2022, 8:19 PM John Whelan  wrote:

> On a windows machine do a search for Microsoft store.  Then search for
> JOSM.  Download it then you can leave a review.  The more reviews it has
> the more it looks as if it is the legitimate version.
>
> The other version which is a fork of JOSM is called  OpenStreetMap editor
> and has a JOSM screen shot and costs $5.99 can.
>
> Thanks John
>
> Dave F wrote on 11/27/2022 7:15 PM:
>
> Link(s)?
>
> On 30/10/2022 18:47, john whelan wrote:
>
> There are two versions of JOSM available on the Microsoft store.  One is a
> fork and costs money the other is the kosher version.
>
> It might be helpful if JOSM had a few reviews to make it stand out from
> the other version.
>
> Thanks John
>
>
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>
>
> --
> Sent from Postbox 
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Re: [OSM-talk] Rent-a-crowd needed JOSM Microsoft store

[John Whelan]

On a windows machine do a search for Microsoft store.  Then search for 
JOSM.  Download it then you can leave a review.  The more reviews it has 
the more it looks as if it is the legitimate version.


The other version which is a fork of JOSM is called  OpenStreetMap 
editor and has a JOSM screen shot and costs $5.99 can.


Thanks John

Dave F wrote on 11/27/2022 7:15 PM:

Link(s)?

On 30/10/2022 18:47, john whelan wrote:
There are two versions of JOSM available on the Microsoft store.  One 
is a fork and costs money the other is the kosher version.


It might be helpful if JOSM had a few reviews to make it stand out 
from the other version.


Thanks John


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Re: [OSM-talk] Rent-a-crowd needed JOSM Microsoft store

[Dave F via talk]

Link(s)?

On 30/10/2022 18:47, john whelan wrote:
There are two versions of JOSM available on the Microsoft store.  One 
is a fork and costs money the other is the kosher version.


It might be helpful if JOSM had a few reviews to make it stand out 
from the other version.


Thanks John


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Re: [OSM-talk] QA tool for finding nameless highways that are armchair-fixable

[Dave F via talk]

Most roads don't have names.

Any comparison has to be done against an authoritative database or on 
ground surveying, for the area in which you're searching.


"where the name can be interpolated from neighbouring ways. This allows 
to detect and armchair-fix a (small) subset of these cases with high 
confidence. "


I have a "high confidence" interpolation, from an armchair or anywhere, 
will lead to inaccurate data being added to the OSM database.


Cheers
DaveF


On 27/11/2022 20:16, Lukas Toggenburger via talk wrote:

Hi all

As you might know, OSM data contains a lot of highway=* without name=*. Check 
your region using the following query:

https://overpass-turbo.eu/?Q=way%0A%20%20%5Bhighway%5D%5B!name%5D%0A%20%20(%7B%7Bbbox%7D%7D)%3B%0Aout%20body%3B%0A%3E%3B%0Aout%20skel%20qt%3B

I wrote a Python tool (using Sarah Hoffmann's pyosmium) at 
https://gitlab.com/ltog/ohni that is able to detect such highways in a planet 
(extract) file and report the ones, where the name can be interpolated from 
neighbouring ways. This allows to detect and armchair-fix a (small) subset of 
these cases with high confidence. The tool is tailored to minimize 
false-positives.

Please check it out and give feedback.

Best regards

Lukas

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[OSM-talk] QA tool for finding nameless highways that are armchair-fixable

[Lukas Toggenburger via talk]

Hi all

As you might know, OSM data contains a lot of highway=* without name=*. Check 
your region using the following query:

https://overpass-turbo.eu/?Q=way%0A%20%20%5Bhighway%5D%5B!name%5D%0A%20%20(%7B%7Bbbox%7D%7D)%3B%0Aout%20body%3B%0A%3E%3B%0Aout%20skel%20qt%3B

I wrote a Python tool (using Sarah Hoffmann's pyosmium) at 
https://gitlab.com/ltog/ohni that is able to detect such highways in a planet 
(extract) file and report the ones, where the name can be interpolated from 
neighbouring ways. This allows to detect and armchair-fix a (small) subset of 
these cases with high confidence. The tool is tailored to minimize 
false-positives.

Please check it out and give feedback.

Best regards

Lukas

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[OSM-talk-fr] hebdoOSM Nº 644 2022-11-15-2022-11-21

[weeklyteam]

Bonjour,

Le résumé hebdomadaire n° 644 de l'actualité OpenStreetMap vient de paraître 
*en français*. Un condensé à retrouver sur :

https://www.weeklyosm.eu/fr/archives/16134/

Bonne lecture !

Saviez-vous que vous pouvez vous aussi soumettre des messages pour la note 
hebdomadaire sans être membre ? Il vous suffit de vous connecter sur 
https://osmbc.openstreetmap.de/login avec votre compte OSM. Pour en savoir plus 
sur la rédaction d'un article, cliquez ici: 
https://www.weeklyosm.eu/fr/this-news-should-be-in-weeklyosm

hebdoOSM ? 
Qui : https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
Où : 
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-produced-in_56718#2/8.6/108.3
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[Talk-tr] weeklyOSM #644 2022-11-15-2022-11-21

[weeklyteam]

OSM ile ilgili haberlerin derlendiği ve OpenStreetMap dünyasındaki pek çok 
gelişmelerin paylaşıldığı haftalık bülten, 644. bölümüyle çevrimiçi ve Türkçe 
olarak erişilebilir durumda:
 
https://www.weeklyosm.eu/tr/archives/16134/

İyi okumalar! 

weeklyOSM'e sizin de ekleme yapabileceğinizi biliyor muydunuz? Sadece 
https://osmbc.openstreetmap.de/login adresine OSM hesabınızla giriş yapın. Yeni 
bir haber yüklemek için yapmanız gerekenleri buradan öğrenebilirsiniz: 
https://www.weeklyosm.eu/this-news-should-be-in-weeklyosm 

weeklyOSM? 
Kim?: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
Nerede?: 
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-produced-in_56718#2/8.6/108.3
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[talk-ph] weeklyOSM #644 2022-11-15-2022-11-21

[weeklyteam]

The weekly round-up of OSM news, issue # 644,
is now available online in English, giving as always a summary of a lot of 
things happening in the openstreetmap world:

https://www.weeklyosm.eu/archives/16134

Enjoy! 

Did you know that you can also submit messages for the weeklyOSM? Just log in 
to https://osmbc.openstreetmap.de/login with your OSM account. Read more about 
how to write a post here: 
https://www.weeklyosm.eu/this-news-should-be-in-weeklyosm 

weeklyOSM? 
who: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
where?: 
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-produced-in_56718#2/8.6/108.3
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[OSM-talk] weeklyOSM #644 2022-11-15-2022-11-21

[weeklyteam]

The weekly round-up of OSM news, issue # 644,
is now available online in English, giving as always a summary of a lot of 
things happening in the openstreetmap world:

https://www.weeklyosm.eu/archives/16134

Enjoy! 

Did you know that you can also submit messages for the weeklyOSM? Just log in 
to https://osmbc.openstreetmap.de/login with your OSM account. Read more about 
how to write a post here: 
https://www.weeklyosm.eu/this-news-should-be-in-weeklyosm 

weeklyOSM? 
who: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
where?: 
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-produced-in_56718#2/8.6/108.3
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