[OSM-talk] is OSM a fake map.
Hi. I'm trying to understand what are you talking about, and I have two options: 1- that there are mistakes in the map. that's a good thing, that you are able to spot them, because you can correct them. I suggest you do so, and share the good news when you have something to celebrate! 2- you hope that someone helps you correcting them. in that case it would be helpful if you would share a link to the area you can't correct yourself. I can assure you, in my experience, the big G map is much, much, much faker than OSM, at least in marginal areas. like Jardín, Antioquia in 2015, or Las Minas, Los Santos right now. it shows roads that do not exist. but yes, also OSM has trolls mapping non existent stuff, very true. stay alert and remove mistakes, or ask the community for help, providing the relevant links to the suspicious edits. ciao, happy mapping, Mario On 01/01/2020 10:00, 80hnhtv4agou--- via talk wrote: > i am seeing different images on different maps, bing is very old in my > area, > > trails that were once there are over grown and impassable. > > roads do not change, > > but shopping malls are torn down, and rivers are diverted, > > landfills that look flat with stuff on top are miss labeled > > over flow ponds look like flat grass land > > retention dry ponds, look like holes in the ground with water on the > satellite pass, > > all this by the tracer not a person on the ground. > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] is OSM a fake map.
Still the current map is much better that say the map from the year of 1538: https://olinuris.library.cornell.edu/sites/default/files/user7/Waldseemuller_1507.jpg On that old map the continents' shapes are incorrect, half of the North America is absent. However, such a map is still better than nothing. People could navigate quite efficiently with it. I guess the quality of the map will continue to improve, especially when the orthorectified aerial imagery becomes available in real time. I also used an app on my phone to record the GPS traces, however a dedicated GPS tracker has got some advantages. It is waterproof, it can record a GPS trace for many hours without discharging the battery of a communication device. A DIY ultra-low cost GPS tracker can be placed say on the roof of a car what I would not risk to do with a phone. Best regards, O. On 12/30/19 14:41, 80hnhtv4a...@bk.ru wrote: yes i used a phone to check it out, but if the tracers are using old images, who to say the rest of the world is correct. rivers, streams, trails, sidewalks dry flood ponds bus stops, gates, fences, billboards phone towers, ect. *From:* Oleksiy Muzalyev *Sent:* Monday, December 30, 2019 6:00 AM *To:* 80hnhtv4a...@bk.ru *Cc:* OSM Talk *Subject:* Re: [OSM-talk] is OSM a fake map. You can make the map quite precise and up to date by employing a GPS tracker. Here is, for example, a 431 km GPS trace which I recorded with the Garmin 35 eTrex device (no affiliation) earlier this month in Mexico from inside the bus: https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/4330126920 . This GPS trace is also published to the OSM map. Garmin 35 uses the EGNOS, the European Geostationary Navigation Overlay Service, a satellite based augmentation system, in Europe, and the WAAS, the Wide Area Augmentation System, in the North America. It is capable to record a GPS trace for about 20 hours on a pair of cheap alkaline AA batteries even from inside the train, bus, car, or on bicycle. It is possible to build a DIY, do-it-yourself, GPS tracker from and Arduino type micro-controller [1] and a 15 USD GPS module [2]. The total cost would be about 30.- USD. There are videos on Youtube on how to do it. So one can record a GPS trace while cycling around a new building or a park, then publish the GPS trace to the OSM map, and finally to map them precisely and up to date in an editor by the GPS traces, even if they are not on satellite images yet. [1] https://www.banggood.com/Wholesale-ATMEGA328-328p-5V-16MHz-Pro-Mini-PCB-Module-Board-p-68534.html [2] https://www.banggood.com/UBLOX-NEO-M8N-BN-880-Flight-Control-GPS-Module-Dual-Module-Compass-p-971082.html Best regards, Oleksiy On 12/29/19 22:46, 80hnhtv4agou--- via talk wrote: i am talking about in my own back yard, i just hiked a mile down the street to check it out, it was not the same when i was there in 1985, but it did not match the mapper either. to that end, bing is 2015 or 16, as an example the county forest preserve map took from osm, so mappers have copied that and it is wrong and how do you see thing under the trees unless you walk it. so who is to say that any of OSM is not fake. if all mappers are tracing. *From:* john whelan *Sent:* Sunday, December 29, 2019 1:08 PM *To:* 80hnhtv4a...@bk.ru *Cc:* OSM Talk *Subject:* Re: [OSM-talk] is OSM a fake map. I'm fairly lucky in that in the last three years nothing much has changed locally. The highways have stayed much the same. Most buildings are still there. If you use Bing to add things then realistically it fills in gaps in the map. If you delete things because they are not in Bing that is a quite different matter. Does it matter if the mapper lives more than five miles away? Well I've mapped places a few thousand miles away but they were places I knew very well as I used to live there. I don't think OSM will ever be completely accurate. Having said that it is still very useful for many purposes. Cheerio John On Sun, 29 Dec 2019, 12:31 80hnhtv4agou--- via talk, wrote: it say in some wiki. to correct what you find wrong on the map, not one“other nearby users” is a current mapper, and all edits in a 5 mile radius are not coming from an on the ground mappers in my area but 20 miles + away and are tracing from bing, and the images on bing in my local area are from 2016 so i do not see how the map locally is true, and it is not easy to go and see every thing they have done, no car or bike. every thing i do is backed up by me on mapillary, and in traces. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk
Re: [OSM-talk] is OSM a fake map.
Is a map "fake" if it's incorrect? There is *no such* thing as a 100% correct map, they don't exist. Any map you buy commercially is likely to be outdated before it's printed. Is OSM more or less accurate than the alternatives? It varies. Enthusiasts will sometimes eagerly map changes on the ground. A newly opened lightrail? If there's enthusiasts around, it will be there - way before any commercial map has added it. "Armchair mappers" will sometimes use air photos and other sources to map areas, without having local knowledge. But to some extent, this also happens with commercial maps. They are often made from photos nowadays, and both humans and software might interpret them wrong. I believe OSM is pretty decent, but 100% correct? Of course not. - Vegard On Mon, Dec 30, 2019 at 03:41:47PM +0300, 80hnhtv4agou--- via talk wrote: > > yes i used a phone to check it out, > > but if the tracers are using old images, who to say the rest of the world is > correct. > > rivers, streams, trails, sidewalks dry flood ponds bus stops, gates, fences, > billboards phone towers, ect. > > From: Oleksiy Muzalyev > Sent: Monday, December 30, 2019 6:00 AM > To: 80hnhtv4a...@bk.ru > Cc: OSM Talk > Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] is OSM a fake map. > > You can make the map quite precise and up to date by employing a GPS tracker. > Here is, for example, a 431 km GPS trace which I recorded with the Garmin 35 > eTrex device (no affiliation) earlier this month in Mexico from inside the > bus: https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/4330126920 . This GPS trace > is also published to the OSM map. > > Garmin 35 uses the EGNOS, the European Geostationary Navigation Overlay > Service, a satellite based augmentation system, in Europe, and the WAAS, the > Wide Area Augmentation System, in the North America. It is capable to record > a GPS trace for about 20 hours on a pair of cheap alkaline AA batteries even > from inside the train, bus, car, or on bicycle. > > It is possible to build a DIY, do-it-yourself, GPS tracker from and Arduino > type micro-controller [1] and a 15 USD GPS module [2]. The total cost would > be about 30.- USD. There are videos on Youtube on how to do it. > > So one can record a GPS trace while cycling around a new building or a park, > then publish the GPS trace to the OSM map, and finally to map them precisely > and up to date in an editor by the GPS traces, even if they are not on > satellite images yet. > > [1] > https://www.banggood.com/Wholesale-ATMEGA328-328p-5V-16MHz-Pro-Mini-PCB-Module-Board-p-68534.html > [2] > https://www.banggood.com/UBLOX-NEO-M8N-BN-880-Flight-Control-GPS-Module-Dual-Module-Compass-p-971082.html > > Best regards, > Oleksiy > > > On 12/29/19 22:46, 80hnhtv4agou--- via talk wrote: > >i am talking about in my own back yard, > > > >i just hiked a mile down the street to check it out, it was not the same > >when i was there in > > > >1985, but it did not match the mapper either. > > > >to that end, bing is 2015 or 16, > > > >as an example the county forest preserve map took from osm, so mappers have > >copied that and it is wrong > > > >and how do you see thing under the trees unless you walk it. > > > >so who is to say that any of OSM is not fake. > > > >if all mappers are tracing. > > > >From: john whelan > >Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2019 1:08 PM > >To: 80hnhtv4a...@bk.ru > >Cc: OSM Talk > >Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] is OSM a fake map. > > > >I'm fairly lucky in that in the last three years nothing much has changed > >locally. The highways have stayed much the same. Most buildings are still > >there. > > > >If you use Bing to add things then realistically it fills in gaps in the > >map. If you delete things because they are not in Bing that is a quite > >different matter. > > > >Does it matter if the mapper lives more than five miles away? Well I've > >mapped places a few thousand miles away but they were places I knew very > >well as I used to live there. > > > >I don't think OSM will ever be completely accurate. Having said that it is > >still very useful for many purposes. > > > >Cheerio John > >On Sun, 29 Dec 2019, 12:31 80hnhtv4agou--- via talk, < > >talk@openstreetmap.org > wrote: > >>it say in some wiki. to correct what you find wrong on the map, > >> > >>not one “other nearby users” is a current mapper, and all edits in a 5 mile > >>radius are not coming from an on the ground > >> > >>mappers in my area but 20 mi
Re: [OSM-talk] is OSM a fake map.
On 30/12/19 07:46, 80hnhtv4agou--- via talk wrote: i am talking about in my own back yard, i just hiked a mile down the street to check it out, it was not the same when i was there in 1985, but it did not match the mapper either. to that end, bing is 2015 or 16, as an example the county forest preserve map took from osm, so mappers have copied that and it is wrong and how do you see thing under the trees unless you walk it. so who is to say that any of OSM is not fake. if all mappers are tracing. I think that tracing in the presence of trees can be done an match the most up to date imagery OSM has. Similarly rivers, roads etc. There is a temptation to 'colour in' the map .. many National Parks 'local' to me were tagged as tree covered. I have reduced that by separating the tree tags from the National Parks and mapping the trees separately. In at least some areas I suspect that the 'trees' are really scrub .. but until I go there I cannot tell. Were the original mappers wrong to do this? I don't think so - most of these are mostly covered by trees, so as a broad brush they were correct and the indication was in a broad sense correct. But it lacked some detail that I was able to add .. by using imagery remotely! However I do have some local knowledge to aid me. Remotely mapping some things is possible, roads and rivers, tree cover are all possible with caution. Remotely mapping use of those trees is not possible, nor is the type of tree.. more information than the imagery provides is necessary. If we all seek to improve the map .. things will simple get better. I call it polishing, you start with what there is and polish it to improve it, removing rough bits, clearing up bad spots. *From:* john whelan *Sent:* Sunday, December 29, 2019 1:08 PM *To:* 80hnhtv4a...@bk.ru *Cc:* OSM Talk *Subject:* Re: [OSM-talk] is OSM a fake map. I'm fairly lucky in that in the last three years nothing much has changed locally. The highways have stayed much the same. Most buildings are still there. If you use Bing to add things then realistically it fills in gaps in the map. If you delete things because they are not in Bing that is a quite different matter. Does it matter if the mapper lives more than five miles away? Well I've mapped places a few thousand miles away but they were places I knew very well as I used to live there. I don't think OSM will ever be completely accurate. Having said that it is still very useful for many purposes. Cheerio John On Sun, 29 Dec 2019, 12:31 80hnhtv4agou--- via talk, wrote: it say in some wiki. to correct what you find wrong on the map, not one“other nearby users” is a current mapper, and all edits in a 5 mile radius are not coming from an on the ground mappers in my area but 20 miles + away and are tracing from bing, and the images on bing in my local area are from 2016 so i do not see how the map locally is true, and it is not easy to go and see every thing they have done, no car or bike. every thing i do is backed up by me on mapillary, and in traces. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] is OSM a fake map.
29 Dec 2019, 21:46 by talk@openstreetmap.org: > i am talking about in my own back yard, > > Have you tried what was proposed in "In your specific case you should engage with the mapper(s) in question via changeset comments and try to explain the situation to them. If that doesn't work out, you can approach the DWG (d...@osmfoundation.org) and ask them to have a look at the situation. If necessary they will intervene and try to resolve the issues." ? Everyone makes sometimes mistakes, have you tried communicating with people who are making mistakes in your region?___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] is OSM a fake map.
OSM is not a "fake map." OSM is a crowdsourced map, pretty good in many places, even excellent in others. Does it have errors? Yes, as do all maps. Do these errors diminish and does the map improve over time? For the most part, yes, unlike many maps. If you don't like OSM or find it doesn't suit your purposes, you do have the option of not using it. If you find errors in the map and you are able to correct them, the people in this project certainly appreciate that, so please feel free to do so if you find yourself so inclined. If you wish to criticize the map without being constructive about it, you may not find many helpful or sympathetic people here, as unconstructive criticism is not especially helpful. It is not the case that "all mappers are tracing." Some do, yes, but others "walk, bike, ride a train, trace-via-GPS" and enter these data into OSM, certainly in places where there is tree cover that prevents aerial / satellite imagery from displaying what is underneath it that might be interesting and correct to map. This enters "better" data (than tracing something which may be wrong, or when tree cover frustrates that kind of source data from yielding any helpful data to enter). So, I'm at least one person who DOES say that OSM isn't a fake map, and those are only some of the reasons why. There are plenty of other reasons and plenty of other people who agree with me. SteveA California ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] is OSM a fake map.
i am talking about in my own back yard, i just hiked a mile down the street to check it out, it was not the same when i was there in 1985, but it did not match the mapper either. to that end, bing is 2015 or 16, as an example the county forest preserve map took from osm, so mappers have copied that and it is wrong and how do you see thing under the trees unless you walk it. so who is to say that any of OSM is not fake. if all mappers are tracing. From: john whelan Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2019 1:08 PM To: 80hnhtv4a...@bk.ru Cc: OSM Talk Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] is OSM a fake map. I'm fairly lucky in that in the last three years nothing much has changed locally. The highways have stayed much the same. Most buildings are still there. If you use Bing to add things then realistically it fills in gaps in the map. If you delete things because they are not in Bing that is a quite different matter. Does it matter if the mapper lives more than five miles away? Well I've mapped places a few thousand miles away but they were places I knew very well as I used to live there. I don't think OSM will ever be completely accurate. Having said that it is still very useful for many purposes. Cheerio John On Sun, 29 Dec 2019, 12:31 80hnhtv4agou--- via talk, < talk@openstreetmap.org > wrote: >it say in some wiki. to correct what you find wrong on the map, > >not one “other nearby users” is a current mapper, and all edits in a 5 mile >radius are not coming from an on the ground > >mappers in my area but 20 miles + away and are tracing from bing, and the >images on bing in my local area are from > >2016 so i do not see how the map locally is true, and it is not easy to go and >see every thing they have done, > >no car or bike. > >every thing i do is backed up by me on mapillary, and in traces. >___ >talk mailing list >talk@openstreetmap.org >https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] is OSM a fake map.
I'm fairly lucky in that in the last three years nothing much has changed locally. The highways have stayed much the same. Most buildings are still there. If you use Bing to add things then realistically it fills in gaps in the map. If you delete things because they are not in Bing that is a quite different matter. Does it matter if the mapper lives more than five miles away? Well I've mapped places a few thousand miles away but they were places I knew very well as I used to live there. I don't think OSM will ever be completely accurate. Having said that it is still very useful for many purposes. Cheerio John On Sun, 29 Dec 2019, 12:31 80hnhtv4agou--- via talk, wrote: > it say in some wiki. to correct what you find wrong on the map, > > not one “other nearby users” is a current mapper, and all edits in a 5 > mile radius are not coming from an on the ground > > mappers in my area but 20 miles + away and are tracing from bing, and the > images on bing in my local area are from > > 2016 so i do not see how the map locally is true, and it is not easy to go > and see every thing they have done, > > no car or bike. > > every thing i do is backed up by me on mapillary, and in traces. > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] is OSM a fake map.
A couple of general points first: - nobody "owns" their OSM data in any larger OSM community your data will be changed by other mappers, and sometimes they will be wrong and sometimes you, - good comments and source tags are your friend, indicating how the data was sourced is key to enabling other mappers to understanding what you did In your specific case you should engage with the mapper(s) in question via changeset comments and try to explain the situation to them. If that doesn't work out, you can approach the DWG (d...@osmfoundation.org) and ask them to have a look at the situation. If necessary they will intervene and try to resolve the issues. Simon Am 29.12.2019 um 18:27 schrieb 80hnhtv4agou--- via talk: > it say in some wiki. to correct what you find wrong on the map, > > not one“other nearby users” is a current mapper, and all edits in a 5 > mile radius are not coming from an on the ground > > mappers in my area but 20 miles + away and are tracing from bing, and > the images on bing in my local area are from > > 2016 so i do not see how the map locally is true, and it is not easy > to go and see every thing they have done, > > no car or bike. > > every thing i do is backed up by me on mapillary, and in traces. > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] is OSM a fake map.
it say in some wiki. to correct what you find wrong on the map, not one “other nearby users” is a current mapper, and all edits in a 5 mile radius are not coming from an on the ground mappers in my area but 20 miles + away and are tracing from bing, and the images on bing in my local area are from 2016 so i do not see how the map locally is true, and it is not easy to go and see every thing they have done, no car or bike. every thing i do is backed up by me on mapillary, and in traces.___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
