Re: [OSM-talk] time to review

[Mario Frasca]

Dear Steve, thank you for reminding me there's something called ESRI.

they approached the Telegram group in March last year:

https://t.me/Comunidad_OSM_Panama/1641 



we were invited to a meeting, and I was able to accept the invitation.

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/ES:Panam%C3%A1/Reuni%C3%B3n_2019-03-21

this was in preparation of an ESRI event celebrating the 500 years of 
the city of Panama.  I had always assumed the event never took place.  
and I now guess it was this GisDay.  was it around November13th 2019?  
please notice how downplayed the role of YMUP.


the activity in Guna Nega do seem to follow step 1 in my 
recommendations, and it disregards all subsequent steps, in particular 
the last one.


needless to say, I never received feedback, nor acknowledgement for the 
input I provided during the meeting.


oh well.

Mario

On 02/12/2020 16:44, Steve Friedl wrote:


FWIW, GIS Day is a thing: https://www.gisday.com/en-us/overview 
<https://www.gisday.com/en-us/overview>


The local Governmental GIS Users group near me in California 
celebrates it every year, though this year only virtually.


No comment on the rest, just answering one data point.

Steve

---

Steve Friedl // Software guy + Volunteer mapper // Southern California USA

st...@unixwiz.net [OSM:SJFriedl] // OpenStreetMap MWG //  Fix ALL the 
maps!


*From:* Mario Frasca 
*Sent:* Wednesday, December 2, 2020 1:24 PM
*To:* Rory Nealon 
*Cc:* OSM Talk 
*Subject:* Re: [OSM-talk] time to review

Hi Rory,

let's include the list, so you're talking with the whole community, 
not just to me.


BACKGROUND: we're trying to have the YouthMappers Chapter of the 
University of Panama consider they're mapping within OSM, that there's 
a local community of mappers already mapping, and with some experience 
in different fields.


unfortunately, the YMUP Chapter refuses to reply to comments to their 
changesets, or to consider complaints about their low quality of 
edits, and the sheer mass of beginners they throw into not-too-simple 
tasks.  recently they had their yearly "Gis Day", please don't ask me 
what it is, because I don't know, only that there's a hashtag being 
used once a year by the YouthMappers UP Chapter.  also please don't 
ask me who's inside this chapter, because I don't know.


when Mateusz wrote to i...@youthmappers.org 
<mailto:i...@youthmappers.org> about their organized editing activity 
without declaration of intents, the result of his writing was that HOT 
opened two projects on top of two areas we from the community were 
editing using the tasking manager from tareas.openstreetmap.co, 
forcing us to clean up the edits while they were coming in.  that's 
Santiago and Colón.


in Santiago we reverted several changesets, and made the effort to 
close their project so they would stay away from the work which was 
anyway almost complete.


in Colón we stopped editing downtown, leaving it to the YMUP Chapter.

there's still no published plan from the chapter, Rory says that they 
are reviewing the tasks they had opened, but apart from beginner 
mapper agreenish <https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/agreenish>, 
arguably adding to the mass of mistakes, I don't see much editing 
activity in either project.


I will write a diary entry, with images, and will try to make it a 
structured presentation of what goes on here.  there's statistical 
data I've collected that shows just how organized the edits from YMUP, 
and I find it quite insulting, the mismatch between the words by 
YouthMappers International, the call for patience by HOT, and the 
continued self-boasting by this local Chapter, while we need to do the 
cleaning up.


you know … I am editing Morocco, that's more relaxing. hopefully no 
YouthMappers there.


ciao,

Mario

On 02/12/2020 15:52, Rory Nealon wrote:

Hi Mario,

Sorry for not getting back to you sooner.  I will try and contact
the chapter and get an answer for you.  The last I heard was that
they had begun to validate the tasks they had created.

Cheers,

Rory

On Sun, Nov 29, 2020 at 4:53 PM Mario Frasca mailto:ma...@anche.no>> wrote:

Dear Rory,

let me insist, I wish to have an estimate of how long we
should wait,
for the YMUP to review their edits?

as you have read from his complaint to YMI, Markusz assumes
something
like "at the end of the day", even if he wrote the complaint 4
days
after the edit — which he fixed himself.

maybe too strict myself, because I would say "the next day",
which could
be "the next available day".

in particular since this looks like episodic edits, not
ongoing activities.

so, what is the time we should allow before concluding they
abandoned
the location?

a week?  (slow, but could fit in a low activity group)

a month?  (very slo

Re: [OSM-talk] time to review

[john whelan]

I would suggest that if someone could identify a list of mapping tasks
suitable for beginners that might help this sort of thing happening again.

I'd done a fair amount of validation of HOT tasks in the past which I'm
sure are similar and I'm more than aware of the amount of effort needed to
validate after new untrained enthusiastic mappers have been mapping.
Especially when they map only a couple of times.

I'm also aware that it does take a lot of knowledge and resources to clean
up afterwards.

Do we need a half page introduction to OSM?  Something along the lines of
if you are organising some sort of mapathon these are things you need to
consider and theses are the sort of things that have caused problems in the
past.  I get the feeling the enthusiastic organisers are going to do it
anyway but it help help a bit.

It doesn't help the present situation but it might help prevent more
problems in the future.

Cheerio John


On Wed, Dec 2, 2020, 16:29 Mario Frasca  wrote:

> Hi Rory,
>
> let's include the list, so you're talking with the whole community, not
> just to me.
>
> BACKGROUND: we're trying to have the YouthMappers Chapter of the
> University of Panama consider they're mapping within OSM, that there's a
> local community of mappers already mapping, and with some experience in
> different fields.
>
> unfortunately, the YMUP Chapter refuses to reply to comments to their
> changesets, or to consider complaints about their low quality of edits, and
> the sheer mass of beginners they throw into not-too-simple tasks.  recently
> they had their yearly "Gis Day", please don't ask me what it is, because I
> don't know, only that there's a hashtag being used once a year by the
> YouthMappers UP Chapter.  also please don't ask me who's inside this
> chapter, because I don't know.
>
> when Mateusz wrote to i...@youthmappers.org about their organized editing
> activity without declaration of intents, the result of his writing was that
> HOT opened two projects on top of two areas we from the community were
> editing using the tasking manager from tareas.openstreetmap.co, forcing
> us to clean up the edits while they were coming in.  that's Santiago and
> Colón.
>
> in Santiago we reverted several changesets, and made the effort to close
> their project so they would stay away from the work which was anyway almost
> complete.
>
> in Colón we stopped editing downtown, leaving it to the YMUP Chapter.
>
> there's still no published plan from the chapter, Rory says that they are
> reviewing the tasks they had opened, but apart from beginner mapper
> agreenish , arguably adding
> to the mass of mistakes, I don't see much editing activity in either
> project.
> I will write a diary entry, with images, and will try to make it a
> structured presentation of what goes on here.  there's statistical data
> I've collected that shows just how organized the edits from YMUP, and I
> find it quite insulting, the mismatch between the words by YouthMappers
> International, the call for patience by HOT, and the continued
> self-boasting by this local Chapter, while we need to do the cleaning up.
>
> you know … I am editing Morocco, that's more relaxing.  hopefully no
> YouthMappers there.
>
> ciao,
>
> Mario
>
>
> On 02/12/2020 15:52, Rory Nealon wrote:
>
> Hi Mario,
>
> Sorry for not getting back to you sooner.  I will try and contact the
> chapter and get an answer for you.  The last I heard was that they had
> begun to validate the tasks they had created.
>
> Cheers,
>
>
> Rory
>
> On Sun, Nov 29, 2020 at 4:53 PM Mario Frasca  wrote:
>
>> Dear Rory,
>>
>> let me insist, I wish to have an estimate of how long we should wait,
>> for the YMUP to review their edits?
>>
>> as you have read from his complaint to YMI, Markusz assumes something
>> like "at the end of the day", even if he wrote the complaint 4 days
>> after the edit — which he fixed himself.
>>
>> maybe too strict myself, because I would say "the next day", which could
>> be "the next available day".
>>
>> in particular since this looks like episodic edits, not ongoing
>> activities.
>>
>> so, what is the time we should allow before concluding they abandoned
>> the location?
>>
>> a week?  (slow, but could fit in a low activity group)
>>
>> a month?  (very slow, one forgets what they were doing)
>>
>> a year?  (ah? next group, please?)
>>
>> best regards, Mario Frasca
>>
>>
>
> --
> *Rory Nealon (he/him)*
> *Senior GIS Analyst & YouthMappers Activity Manager*
> *US Agency for International Development*
> *Washington, DC*
> *+1 202.468.7890*
> *GeoCenter MyUSAID Site *
>
> *The Geographic Approach to Development
> *
>
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>

Re: [OSM-talk] time to review

[Mario Frasca]

I forgot to include links to the tasks:

in Colón I had created a project to assist a mapper from USA keep the 
rest of us informed about his progress, and as said YMUP requested a 
project on top of it.  I have marked as unavailable the area of their 
project.


https://tareas.openstreetmap.co/project/174 — 
https://tasks.hotosm.org/projects/9851/


in Santiago a local user was attempting a complete insertion of all 
buildings, I offered him a project in the tasking manger, but he was 
already proceeding with his own todo-list.  again YMUP requested a 
project on top of this already ongoing activity.  to prevent this from 
interfering with our project, we marked all tasks in their project as 
completed and validated.  we've not received any comment to our action.


https://tareas.openstreetmap.co/project/170 — 
https://tasks.hotosm.org/projects/9852/




in San Miguelito they had opened a project, and this one was the focus 
of their GisDay 2020


https://tasks.hotosm.org/projects/9844/

for the GisDay 2019, the chapter edited around the Guna Nega area.  I'm 
not sure what was achieved.


for the GisDay 2018, the chapter had HOT open project 4917, which was 
left stagnant until I insisted that it be closed.


this as far as I understood, but I'm not sure, because I have not yet 
had the pleasure to hear any details from the involved persons.


Mario Frasca


___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] time to review

[Mario Frasca]

Hi Rory,

let's include the list, so you're talking with the whole community, not 
just to me.


BACKGROUND: we're trying to have the YouthMappers Chapter of the 
University of Panama consider they're mapping within OSM, that there's a 
local community of mappers already mapping, and with some experience in 
different fields.


unfortunately, the YMUP Chapter refuses to reply to comments to their 
changesets, or to consider complaints about their low quality of edits, 
and the sheer mass of beginners they throw into not-too-simple tasks.  
recently they had their yearly "Gis Day", please don't ask me what it 
is, because I don't know, only that there's a hashtag being used once a 
year by the YouthMappers UP Chapter.  also please don't ask me who's 
inside this chapter, because I don't know.


when Mateusz wrote to i...@youthmappers.org about their organized 
editing activity without declaration of intents, the result of his 
writing was that HOT opened two projects on top of two areas we from the 
community were editing using the tasking manager from 
tareas.openstreetmap.co, forcing us to clean up the edits while they 
were coming in.  that's Santiago and Colón.


in Santiago we reverted several changesets, and made the effort to close 
their project so they would stay away from the work which was anyway 
almost complete.


in Colón we stopped editing downtown, leaving it to the YMUP Chapter.

there's still no published plan from the chapter, Rory says that they 
are reviewing the tasks they had opened, but apart from beginner mapper 
agreenish , arguably 
adding to the mass of mistakes, I don't see much editing activity in 
either project.


I will write a diary entry, with images, and will try to make it a 
structured presentation of what goes on here.  there's statistical data 
I've collected that shows just how organized the edits from YMUP, and I 
find it quite insulting, the mismatch between the words by YouthMappers 
International, the call for patience by HOT, and the continued 
self-boasting by this local Chapter, while we need to do the cleaning up.


you know … I am editing Morocco, that's more relaxing.  hopefully no 
YouthMappers there.


ciao,

Mario


On 02/12/2020 15:52, Rory Nealon wrote:

Hi Mario,

Sorry for not getting back to you sooner.  I will try and contact the 
chapter and get an answer for you.  The last I heard was that they had 
begun to validate the tasks they had created.


Cheers,


Rory

On Sun, Nov 29, 2020 at 4:53 PM Mario Frasca > wrote:


Dear Rory,

let me insist, I wish to have an estimate of how long we should wait,
for the YMUP to review their edits?

as you have read from his complaint to YMI, Markusz assumes something
like "at the end of the day", even if he wrote the complaint 4 days
after the edit — which he fixed himself.

maybe too strict myself, because I would say "the next day", which
could
be "the next available day".

in particular since this looks like episodic edits, not ongoing
activities.

so, what is the time we should allow before concluding they abandoned
the location?

a week?  (slow, but could fit in a low activity group)

a month?  (very slow, one forgets what they were doing)

a year?  (ah? next group, please?)

best regards, Mario Frasca



--
*/Rory Nealon (he/him)/*
*/Senior GIS Analyst & YouthMappers Activity Manager/*
*/US Agency for International Development/*
*/Washington, DC/*
*/+1 202.468.7890/*
*/GeoCenter MyUSAID Site /*

/*The Geographic Approach to Development 
*/



___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk