Re: [Talk-ca] Canvec attributes (roads)

[Begin Daniel]

Martjin, 
You can get current information about how old/accurate the data are using the 
above link.

http://geogratis.gc.ca/api/en/nrcan-rncan/ess-sst/-/(urn:iso:series)geobase-national-road-network-nrn?sort-field=relevance

To get the answer you need to look at the metadata: 
You select the area you are interested in (click)
You need to view the full metadata (formatted NAP) (click)
Look for the above tags under "dataQualityInfo" 
"DQ_AbsoluteExternalPositionalAccuracy"
You will find 1:N Distance values that describe how accurate the data are. 
"EX_TemporalExtent"
You will find 1:N timePosition values that describe how old the data are.

The same should apply for the other layers (NHN, NRWN...), even if the 
distribution units may differ (whole country, watershed ...)

Daniel

-Original Message-
From: Begin Daniel [mailto:jfd...@hotmail.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, 13 September, 2016 07:53
To: Martijn van Exel; Stewart C. Russell; talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] Canvec attributes (roads)

Bonjour Martijn
AFAIK, here is a summary about how old and accurate is Canvec/GeoBase. 

Transport Layers? 
The roads are updated every 1-2 years for most of the provinces, 5-10 for 
others. 
Railways were updated 4-5 years ago over all the Canadian landmass.

Other layers
Water features are 5-40+ years old depending on the 
province/territory/latitude; Forest areas are 5-40+ years old depending on the 
province/territory/latitude [1]. 
The rest is 25-40+ years old.

About the accuracy, the road network is about 10m (90%). The rest is usually 
better than 30m (90%) but you may find offsets between layers.

Daniel

[1] About forest areas, the latest GeoBase data results from images 
classification made about 5 years ago that gave the clumsy result Paul Ramsay 
recently shown on this list. The latest Canvec OSM tiles (2012?) had a mixture 
of old map data/new GeoBase data.

-Original Message-
From: Martijn van Exel [mailto:m...@rtijn.org]
Sent: Monday, 12 September, 2016 23:06
To: Stewart C. Russell; talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] Canvec attributes (roads)

On 09/12/2016 06:50 PM, Stewart C. Russell wrote:
> On 2016-09-12 04:08 PM, Martijn van Exel wrote:
>> Aren't these files grouped by feature type? So if we look at roads we 
>> wouldn't also necessarily need to look at land use boundaries etc.?
>
> Canvec - the product supplied by NRCan to the general public - always 
> was split by feature type. It's the OSM tiles, of structure decided 
> long ago, that lump everything together.
>
> It's also available as effectively seamless FGDBs if you want to avoid 
> the cleanup required after using tiled data. The FGDBs retain the 
> critically important survey dates and accuracies - so you can easily 
> see how much data's 40 years old and has ±75 m positional accuracy.
>

Good to know.
Are any of the transport related datasets that old or that inaccurate?

I created an initial Canvec road network translation file for ogr2osm, so you 
can convert the Canvec shapefiles to OSM format easily (if you know how to work 
ogr2osm - let me know if you need help, but Paul Norman is the expert here!)

It is located at
https://github.com/mvexel/canvec-ogr2osm-translation/blob/master/canvec2016.py
and I hope for many forks and improvements. Right now it does a basic job of 
translating the road classes to OSM types, and the most obvious attributes to 
the corresponding OSM tags.

Let me know what you all think.

Martijn

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Re: [Talk-ca] Canvec attributes (roads)

[Begin Daniel]

Bonjour Martijn
AFAIK, here is a summary about how old and accurate is Canvec/GeoBase. 

Transport Layers? 
The roads are updated every 1-2 years for most of the provinces, 5-10 for 
others. 
Railways were updated 4-5 years ago over all the Canadian landmass.

Other layers
Water features are 5-40+ years old depending on the province/territory/latitude;
Forest areas are 5-40+ years old depending on the province/territory/latitude 
[1]. 
The rest is 25-40+ years old.

About the accuracy, the road network is about 10m (90%). The rest is usually 
better than 30m (90%) but you may find offsets between layers.

Daniel

[1] About forest areas, the latest GeoBase data results from images 
classification made about 5 years ago that gave the clumsy result Paul Ramsay 
recently shown on this list. The latest Canvec OSM tiles (2012?) had a mixture 
of old map data/new GeoBase data.

-Original Message-
From: Martijn van Exel [mailto:m...@rtijn.org] 
Sent: Monday, 12 September, 2016 23:06
To: Stewart C. Russell; talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] Canvec attributes (roads)

On 09/12/2016 06:50 PM, Stewart C. Russell wrote:
> On 2016-09-12 04:08 PM, Martijn van Exel wrote:
>> Aren't these files grouped by feature type? So if we look at roads we 
>> wouldn't also necessarily need to look at land use boundaries etc.?
>
> Canvec - the product supplied by NRCan to the general public - always 
> was split by feature type. It's the OSM tiles, of structure decided 
> long ago, that lump everything together.
>
> It's also available as effectively seamless FGDBs if you want to avoid 
> the cleanup required after using tiled data. The FGDBs retain the 
> critically important survey dates and accuracies - so you can easily 
> see how much data's 40 years old and has ±75 m positional accuracy.
>

Good to know.
Are any of the transport related datasets that old or that inaccurate?

I created an initial Canvec road network translation file for ogr2osm, so you 
can convert the Canvec shapefiles to OSM format easily (if you know how to work 
ogr2osm - let me know if you need help, but Paul Norman is the expert here!)

It is located at
https://github.com/mvexel/canvec-ogr2osm-translation/blob/master/canvec2016.py
and I hope for many forks and improvements. Right now it does a basic job of 
translating the road classes to OSM types, and the most obvious attributes to 
the corresponding OSM tags.

Let me know what you all think.

Martijn

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Re: [Talk-ca] Canvec attributes (roads)

[Martijn van Exel]

On 09/12/2016 06:50 PM, Stewart C. Russell wrote:

On 2016-09-12 04:08 PM, Martijn van Exel wrote:

Aren't these files grouped by feature type? So if we look at roads we
wouldn't also necessarily need to look at land use boundaries etc.?


Canvec - the product supplied by NRCan to the general public - always
was split by feature type. It's the OSM tiles, of structure decided long
ago, that lump everything together.

It's also available as effectively seamless FGDBs if you want to avoid
the cleanup required after using tiled data. The FGDBs retain the
critically important survey dates and accuracies - so you can easily see
how much data's 40 years old and has ±75 m positional accuracy.



Good to know.
Are any of the transport related datasets that old or that inaccurate?

I created an initial Canvec road network translation file for ogr2osm, 
so you can convert the Canvec shapefiles to OSM format easily (if you 
know how to work ogr2osm - let me know if you need help, but Paul Norman 
is the expert here!)


It is located at 
https://github.com/mvexel/canvec-ogr2osm-translation/blob/master/canvec2016.py 
and I hope for many forks and improvements. Right now it does a basic 
job of translating the road classes to OSM types, and the most obvious 
attributes to the corresponding OSM tags.


Let me know what you all think.

Martijn

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Re: [Talk-ca] Canvec attributes (roads)

[James]

Yes the new canvec are split into different types of data: hydro data(lakes
rivers etc), forest(loads of fun),  transportation(this is what you want),
etc

On Sep 12, 2016 4:08 PM, "Martijn van Exel"  wrote:

> Aren't these files grouped by feature type? So if we look at roads we
> wouldn't also necessarily need to look at land use boundaries etc.? At
> least that's what I am getting looking at http://geogratis.gc.ca/api/
> en/nrcan-rncan/ess-sst/23387971-b6d3-4ded-a40b-c8e832b4ea08.html
>
> --
>   Martijn van Exel
>   m...@rtijn.org
>
>
>
> On Sun, Sep 11, 2016, at 12:59, James wrote:
>
> Plus it would help identify which parts and canvec are actually needed vs
> importing a bunch of forests and hoping for some roads
>
> On Sep 11, 2016 2:48 PM, "John Marshall"  wrote:
>
> Great idea Martijn,
>
> One of the big problems of OSM in Canada is there are many missing road
> where there are no local mappers. Canada is very big. Any tools to help map
> unmapped area of Canada gets a big +1 from me.
>
> John
>
> John Marshall
>
> On Sep 9, 2016 17:36, "Martijn van Exel"  wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> A few colleagues at Telenav and myself are looking at Canvec 2016. Roads
> specifically. I am sure some of you already have done that. Something we
> are looking into a workflow that is something like this (simplified):
>
> Canvec 2016 Shapefiles --> Conflation engine (Cygnus [1]) --> Tasking
> manager
>
> The output of the conflation would be an OSM XML change file that could
> be (selectively) applied in JOSM. It would contain new / changed ways as
> well as some new or changed tags. All proposed updates would be verified
> manually (through tasking manager.)
>
> What do you think about this idea?
>
> The conflation engine takes OSM PBF as input, so the Canvec shapefiles
> would need to be translated (using ogr2osm). That would require an
> ogr2osm translation file. I wonder if someone already did this? (I am
> using this [2] attribute list as reference.)
>
> [1]https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/mvexel/diary/37808
> [2]http://ftp.geogratis.gc.ca/pub/nrcan_rncan/vector/canvec/
> doc/CanVec_Catalogue_50K_Transport/SRDB_EXPL_ESSIM_50K_Trans
> port-sd-en.html#div-1330009
> --
> Martijn van Exel
> m...@rtijn.org
>
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Re: [Talk-ca] Canvec attributes (roads)

[Martijn van Exel]

Aren't these files grouped by feature type? So if we look at roads we
wouldn't also necessarily need to look at land use boundaries etc.? At
least that's what I am getting looking at
http://geogratis.gc.ca/api/en/nrcan-rncan/ess-sst/23387971-b6d3-4ded-a40b-c8e832b4ea08.html

--
  Martijn van Exel
  m...@rtijn.org



On Sun, Sep 11, 2016, at 12:59, James wrote:
> Plus it would help identify which parts and canvec are actually needed
> vs importing a bunch of forests and hoping for some roads
>
> On Sep 11, 2016 2:48 PM, "John Marshall"  wrote:
>> Great idea Martijn,
>> One of the big problems of OSM in Canada is there are many missing
>> road where there are no local mappers. Canada is very big. Any tools
>> to help map unmapped area of Canada gets a big +1 from me.
>> John
>> John Marshall
>>
>> On Sep 9, 2016 17:36, "Martijn van Exel"  wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>>  A few colleagues at Telenav and myself are looking at Canvec 2016.
>>>  Roads
>>>  specifically. I am sure some of you already have done that.
>>>  Something we
>>>  are looking into a workflow that is something like this
>>>  (simplified):
>>>
>>>  Canvec 2016 Shapefiles --> Conflation engine (Cygnus [1]) -->
>>>  Tasking
>>>  manager
>>>
>>>  The output of the conflation would be an OSM XML change file that
>>>  could
>>>  be (selectively) applied in JOSM. It would contain new / changed
>>>  ways as
>>>  well as some new or changed tags. All proposed updates would be
>>>  verified
>>>  manually (through tasking manager.)
>>>
>>>  What do you think about this idea?
>>>
>>>  The conflation engine takes OSM PBF as input, so the Canvec
>>>  shapefiles
>>>  would need to be translated (using ogr2osm). That would require an
>>>  ogr2osm translation file. I wonder if someone already did this?
>>>  (I am
>>>  using this [2] attribute list as reference.)
>>>
>>>  [1]https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/mvexel/diary/37808
>>>  
>>> [2]http://ftp.geogratis.gc.ca/pub/nrcan_rncan/vector/canvec/doc/CanVec_Catalogue_50K_Transport/SRDB_EXPL_ESSIM_50K_Transport-sd-en.html#div-1330009
>>>  --
>>>  Martijn van Exel
>>> m...@rtijn.org
>>>
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Re: [Talk-ca] Canvec attributes (roads)

[Martijn van Exel]

Paul, 
thanks, so perhaps we can start a new one for this data.
Perhaps we can crowdsource it? Has that been done before?

(Wouldn't it be interesting to have a github repo with the translation
file, and each time a commit is made an ogr2osm run is fired and the
resulting OSM file made available somewhere?)
-- 
  Martijn van Exel
  m...@rtijn.org

On Fri, Sep 9, 2016, at 15:54, Paul Norman wrote:
> On 9/9/2016 2:34 PM, Martijn van Exel wrote:
> > The conflation engine takes OSM PBF as input, so the Canvec shapefiles
> > would need to be translated (using ogr2osm).
> 
> The CanVec we've used in the past has been supplied in OSM XML format. 
> No one has proposed a new import with a different format, so I doubt 
> there are any ogr2osm translations available.
> 
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Re: [Talk-ca] Canvec attributes (roads)

[Pierre Béland]

A faire attention
Dans les zones forestières au nord, au Québec à tout le moins, il y a beaucoup 
de chemins forestiers temporaires pour la coupe de bois. Ces chemins et ponts 
ne sont pas entretenus par la suite. 

J'ai beaucoup cartographié des chemins au nord du Québec. A mon avis, seul les 
chemins principaux doivent être tracés.  Pour les autres, on ne peut se fier 
aux images satellites pour déterminer le statut des chemins.  Sur les chemins 
principaux, des camions hors norme font le transport de bois et ont la 
priorité.  Les routes ne sont en général pas carrossables pour les voitures. Il 
faut au minimum un pickup + CB pour annoncer sa présence aux camions.
  
Pierre 


  De : James <james2...@gmail.com>
 À : John Marshall <rps...@gmail.com> 
Cc : Talk-CA OpenStreetMap <talk-ca@openstreetmap.org>
 Envoyé le : Dimanche 11 Septembre 2016 14h59
 Objet : Re: [Talk-ca] Canvec attributes (roads)
   
Plus it would help identify which parts and canvec are actually needed vs 
importing a bunch of forests and hoping for some roads
On Sep 11, 2016 2:48 PM, "John Marshall" <rps...@gmail.com> wrote:

Great idea Martijn,One of the big problems of OSM in Canada is there are many 
missing road where there are no local mappers. Canada is very big. Any tools to 
help map unmapped area of Canada gets a big +1 from me.JohnJohn Marshall
On Sep 9, 2016 17:36, "Martijn van Exel" <m...@rtijn.org> wrote:

Hi all,

A few colleagues at Telenav and myself are looking at Canvec 2016. Roads
specifically. I am sure some of you already have done that. Something we
are looking into a workflow that is something like this (simplified):

Canvec 2016 Shapefiles --> Conflation engine (Cygnus [1]) --> Tasking
manager

The output of the conflation would be an OSM XML change file that could
be (selectively) applied in JOSM. It would contain new / changed ways as
well as some new or changed tags. All proposed updates would be verified
manually (through tasking manager.)

What do you think about this idea?

The conflation engine takes OSM PBF as input, so the Canvec shapefiles
would need to be translated (using ogr2osm). That would require an
ogr2osm translation file. I wonder if someone already did this? (I am
using this [2] attribute list as reference.)

[1]https://www.openstreetmap.o rg/user/mvexel/diary/37808
[2]http://ftp.geogratis.gc.ca/ pub/nrcan_rncan/vector/canvec/ 
doc/CanVec_Catalogue_50K_Trans port/SRDB_EXPL_ESSIM_50K_Trans 
port-sd-en.html#div-1330009
--
  Martijn van Exel
  m...@rtijn.org

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Re: [Talk-ca] Canvec attributes (roads)

[James]

Plus it would help identify which parts and canvec are actually needed vs
importing a bunch of forests and hoping for some roads

On Sep 11, 2016 2:48 PM, "John Marshall"  wrote:

> Great idea Martijn,
>
> One of the big problems of OSM in Canada is there are many missing road
> where there are no local mappers. Canada is very big. Any tools to help map
> unmapped area of Canada gets a big +1 from me.
>
> John
>
> John Marshall
>
> On Sep 9, 2016 17:36, "Martijn van Exel"  wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> A few colleagues at Telenav and myself are looking at Canvec 2016. Roads
>> specifically. I am sure some of you already have done that. Something we
>> are looking into a workflow that is something like this (simplified):
>>
>> Canvec 2016 Shapefiles --> Conflation engine (Cygnus [1]) --> Tasking
>> manager
>>
>> The output of the conflation would be an OSM XML change file that could
>> be (selectively) applied in JOSM. It would contain new / changed ways as
>> well as some new or changed tags. All proposed updates would be verified
>> manually (through tasking manager.)
>>
>> What do you think about this idea?
>>
>> The conflation engine takes OSM PBF as input, so the Canvec shapefiles
>> would need to be translated (using ogr2osm). That would require an
>> ogr2osm translation file. I wonder if someone already did this? (I am
>> using this [2] attribute list as reference.)
>>
>> [1]https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/mvexel/diary/37808
>> [2]http://ftp.geogratis.gc.ca/pub/nrcan_rncan/vector/canvec/
>> doc/CanVec_Catalogue_50K_Transport/SRDB_EXPL_ESSIM_50K_Trans
>> port-sd-en.html#div-1330009
>> --
>>   Martijn van Exel
>>   m...@rtijn.org
>>
>> ___
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Re: [Talk-ca] Canvec attributes (roads)

[John Marshall]

Great idea Martijn,

One of the big problems of OSM in Canada is there are many missing road
where there are no local mappers. Canada is very big. Any tools to help map
unmapped area of Canada gets a big +1 from me.

John

John Marshall

On Sep 9, 2016 17:36, "Martijn van Exel"  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> A few colleagues at Telenav and myself are looking at Canvec 2016. Roads
> specifically. I am sure some of you already have done that. Something we
> are looking into a workflow that is something like this (simplified):
>
> Canvec 2016 Shapefiles --> Conflation engine (Cygnus [1]) --> Tasking
> manager
>
> The output of the conflation would be an OSM XML change file that could
> be (selectively) applied in JOSM. It would contain new / changed ways as
> well as some new or changed tags. All proposed updates would be verified
> manually (through tasking manager.)
>
> What do you think about this idea?
>
> The conflation engine takes OSM PBF as input, so the Canvec shapefiles
> would need to be translated (using ogr2osm). That would require an
> ogr2osm translation file. I wonder if someone already did this? (I am
> using this [2] attribute list as reference.)
>
> [1]https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/mvexel/diary/37808
> [2]http://ftp.geogratis.gc.ca/pub/nrcan_rncan/vector/canvec/
> doc/CanVec_Catalogue_50K_Transport/SRDB_EXPL_ESSIM_50K_
> Transport-sd-en.html#div-1330009
> --
>   Martijn van Exel
>   m...@rtijn.org
>
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Re: [Talk-ca] Canvec attributes (roads)

[Paul Norman]

On 9/9/2016 2:34 PM, Martijn van Exel wrote:

The conflation engine takes OSM PBF as input, so the Canvec shapefiles
would need to be translated (using ogr2osm).


The CanVec we've used in the past has been supplied in OSM XML format. 
No one has proposed a new import with a different format, so I doubt 
there are any ogr2osm translations available.


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[Talk-ca] Canvec attributes (roads)

[Martijn van Exel]

Hi all, 

A few colleagues at Telenav and myself are looking at Canvec 2016. Roads
specifically. I am sure some of you already have done that. Something we
are looking into a workflow that is something like this (simplified):

Canvec 2016 Shapefiles --> Conflation engine (Cygnus [1]) --> Tasking
manager

The output of the conflation would be an OSM XML change file that could
be (selectively) applied in JOSM. It would contain new / changed ways as
well as some new or changed tags. All proposed updates would be verified
manually (through tasking manager.)

What do you think about this idea?

The conflation engine takes OSM PBF as input, so the Canvec shapefiles
would need to be translated (using ogr2osm). That would require an
ogr2osm translation file. I wonder if someone already did this? (I am
using this [2] attribute list as reference.)

[1]https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/mvexel/diary/37808
[2]http://ftp.geogratis.gc.ca/pub/nrcan_rncan/vector/canvec/doc/CanVec_Catalogue_50K_Transport/SRDB_EXPL_ESSIM_50K_Transport-sd-en.html#div-1330009
-- 
  Martijn van Exel
  m...@rtijn.org

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