Re: [Talk-GB] "OSMUK-in-a-box"

[Rob Nickerson]

>do we cover British Overseas Territories such as Gibraltar and the
Falkland Islands?

Not as OSM UK CIC. We ended up settling on the British Islands:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Islands

Thank you,
*Rob*
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Re: [Talk-GB] Still too many universities in Cambridge

[Phillip Barnett]

And here is the email from the guy who did the original mapping, the last time 
this came up, including his reasoning for the amenity Tag rather than building 
tag https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-gb/2015-May/017457.html

Sent from my iPhone

> On 6 Feb 2020, at 15:49, Brian Prangle  wrote:
> 
> 
> "OSM is not beholden to data consumers. 
> They take the data 'as is'. That includes any amendments
> 
> My planned amendment can always be reversed if there is a valid reason.  
> Upsetting CU isn't one"
> 
>  Not a great way to build a community when the data user in question put in a 
> lot of resource in order to create the OSM data in the firstplace
> 
> 
>> On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 at 14:35, Dave F via Talk-GB  
>> wrote:
>> Hi Jerry
>> 
>> On 06/02/2020 10:19, SK53 wrote:
>> > Funnily enough this long-standing issue came up at our pub meeting last
>> > month. Although my reaction has always been to let sleeping dogs lie, this
>> > was clearly not the consensus.
>> 
>> It's detrimental to the quality of the OSM database. it requires sorting 
>> out.
>> 
>> > I've sent a message to University of Cambridge Information Services who run
>> > the map.cam.ac.uk site which consumes the OSM data
>> 
>> Is this their sole use? There was a hint in a university blog there were 
>> other sites
>> 
>> > , to warn them that a
>> > change is impending. It's probably worth holding off for a week or so to
>> > allow them to assess any impact on their map.
>> 
>> I was going to give it a week from my post to allow other OSM 
>> contributors to have their say. I don't want this to fizzle out as has 
>> happened on previous occasions. OSM is not beholden to data consumers. 
>> They take the data 'as is'. That includes any amendments.
>> 
>> My planned amendment can always be reversed if there is a valid reason.  
>> Upsetting CU isn't one.
>> 
>> >   Incidentally, knowing a
>> > specific contact point would help as university IT departments can be big
>> > beasts these days. It does show that having a good contact point is always
>> > a good idea for directed edits when data is in use.
>> 
>> It depends how the institution is set up, but I've found bursar/estates 
>> departments are the more interested in the map's appearance. IT 
>> departments focus more on 0 & 1s.
>> 
>> > As others have said there is a lot of inconsistency: particular with former
>> > houses taken into University or College ownership which sometimes get
>> > building=house/semi and other times building=university. There are other
>> > college buildings of this type which are not hit by amenity=university at
>> > all.
>> 
>> These are to assess what would bel eft after I make my planned amendment.
>> Note these are not all CU (ie Anglia Ruskin)
>> 
>> Buildings=yes, without amenity but have 'university' in the operator tag:
>> https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/QsU
>> 
>> Buildings that aren't '=yes', without amenity but have 'university' in 
>> the operator tag:
>> https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/QsT
>> 
>> Non building, amenity=university, Has 'University of Cambridge' in the 
>> operator tag
>> https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/Qt3
>> 
>> Non building, amenity=university, operator is not 'University of Cambridge'
>> https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/Qt1
>> 
>> Non building, amenity=university, No operator tag
>> https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/Qt4
>> 
>> > Other general points I noticed relating to  inconsistency/issues (largely
>> > arising because Cambridge got mapped earlier than many places or it just
>> > has a lot of things which are otherwise rare):
>> >
>> > - Theological Colleges are loosely associated with the university, and
>> > are equally loosely amenity=university in their own right. I don't 
>> > know if
>> > we have a regular way of tagging non-degree awarding religious training
>> > centres. These are something of an Oxbridge speciality. I see the 
>> > London
>> > Institute of Theology is tagged
>> >  as a college. Years ago I
>> > mapped Coleg Trefecca as a conference centre, but used old_ tags to
>> > indicate it's historical role as a college training people for the
>> > ministry. Fortunately some of the odder places
>> >  of former
>> > times have similarly changed their roles.
>> > - Sports facilities (especially isolated playing fields and boathouses)
>> > are just tagged with a ref and operator. Pavilions are often tagged
>> > building=university, as is the sports centre.
>> > - Cambridge colleges are independent corporations in their own right, 
>> > so
>> > probably should have separate amenity=university relations (although 
>> > the
>> > world is unlikely to end if not).
>> 
>> They maybe financially independent, but still stand under the umbrella 
>> of CU. Why can't they have separate college or faculty relations?
>> 
>> >   They mostly form discrete campuses.
>> > 

Re: [Talk-GB] "OSMUK-in-a-box"

[Jez Nicholson]

Indeed.

I will be plundering the excellent repository from Derry Hamilton for the
Docker setup soon (unless someone beats me to it).

I'd like to make the dataset all of the areas covered by OSMUK...do we
cover British Overseas Territories such as Gibraltar and the Falkland
Islands?

On Thu, 6 Feb 2020, 15:32 Brian Prangle,  wrote:

> Looks like you've got yourself a show and tell session at the OSMUK AGM
> Jez!
>
> On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 at 12:31, Jez Nicholson 
> wrote:
>
>> I come from a database background, and when a question isn't easily
>> answered with Taginfo or Overpass Turbo I jump to my trusty local postgres
>> database of UK data. I have a script that downloads the British Isles from
>> Geofabrik, loads it with osm2pgsql, adds some useful indexes, and then
>> removes Eire. Thereafter I can run SQL queries across the whole database to
>> get 'UK-wide' results.
>>
>> I think that this would be useful for people on hackdays and the like and
>> would be a good service for OSMUK to provide, so have just added a new
>> github repository https://github.com/osm-uk/osmuk2pgsql
>>
>> Friendly-worded Issues are welcome, as are code contributions. I'd like
>> to put it on a Docker environment so that it works quickly-and-easily on
>> Windows, Linux, Mac, whatever.
>>
>> Comments? Thoughts?
>>
>> Regards,
>>  Jez
>> ___
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>> Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
>>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Still too many universities in Cambridge

[Brian Prangle]

"OSM is not beholden to data consumers.
They take the data 'as is'. That includes any amendments

My planned amendment can always be reversed if there is a valid reason.
Upsetting CU isn't one"

 Not a great way to build a community when the data user in question put in
a lot of resource in order to create the OSM data in the firstplac
e


On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 at 14:35, Dave F via Talk-GB 
wrote:

> Hi Jerry
>
> On 06/02/2020 10:19, SK53 wrote:
> > Funnily enough this long-standing issue came up at our pub meeting last
> > month. Although my reaction has always been to let sleeping dogs lie,
> this
> > was clearly not the consensus.
>
> It's detrimental to the quality of the OSM database. it requires sorting
> out.
>
> > I've sent a message to University of Cambridge Information Services who
> run
> > the map.cam.ac.uk site which consumes the OSM data
>
> Is this their sole use? There was a hint in a university blog there were
> other sites
>
> > , to warn them that a
> > change is impending. It's probably worth holding off for a week or so to
> > allow them to assess any impact on their map.
>
> I was going to give it a week from my post to allow other OSM
> contributors to have their say. I don't want this to fizzle out as has
> happened on previous occasions. OSM is not beholden to data consumers.
> They take the data 'as is'. That includes any amendments.
>
> My planned amendment can always be reversed if there is a valid reason.
> Upsetting CU isn't one.
>
> >   Incidentally, knowing a
> > specific contact point would help as university IT departments can be big
> > beasts these days. It does show that having a good contact point is
> always
> > a good idea for directed edits when data is in use.
>
> It depends how the institution is set up, but I've found bursar/estates
> departments are the more interested in the map's appearance. IT
> departments focus more on 0 & 1s.
>
> > As others have said there is a lot of inconsistency: particular with
> former
> > houses taken into University or College ownership which sometimes get
> > building=house/semi and other times building=university. There are other
> > college buildings of this type which are not hit by amenity=university at
> > all.
>
> These are to assess what would bel eft after I make my planned amendment.
> Note these are not all CU (ie Anglia Ruskin)
>
> Buildings=yes, without amenity but have 'university' in the operator tag:
> https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/QsU
>
> Buildings that aren't '=yes', without amenity but have 'university' in
> the operator tag:
> https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/QsT
>
> Non building, amenity=university, Has 'University of Cambridge' in the
> operator tag
> https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/Qt3
>
> Non building, amenity=university, operator is not 'University of Cambridge'
> https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/Qt1
>
> Non building, amenity=university, No operator tag
> https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/Qt4
>
> > Other general points I noticed relating to  inconsistency/issues (largely
> > arising because Cambridge got mapped earlier than many places or it just
> > has a lot of things which are otherwise rare):
> >
> > - Theological Colleges are loosely associated with the university,
> and
> > are equally loosely amenity=university in their own right. I don't
> know if
> > we have a regular way of tagging non-degree awarding religious
> training
> > centres. These are something of an Oxbridge speciality. I see the
> London
> > Institute of Theology is tagged
> >  as a college. Years
> ago I
> > mapped Coleg Trefecca as a conference centre, but used old_ tags to
> > indicate it's historical role as a college training people for the
> > ministry. Fortunately some of the odder places
> >  of former
> > times have similarly changed their roles.
> > - Sports facilities (especially isolated playing fields and
> boathouses)
> > are just tagged with a ref and operator. Pavilions are often tagged
> > building=university, as is the sports centre.
> > - Cambridge colleges are independent corporations in their own
> right, so
> > probably should have separate amenity=university relations (although
> the
> > world is unlikely to end if not).
>
> They maybe financially independent, but still stand under the umbrella
> of CU. Why can't they have separate college or faculty relations?
>
> >   They mostly form discrete campuses.
> > Isolated parts are named separately so just replacing these with a
> relation
> > doesn't work. North Court, Emma is one such example. There are
> similarly
> > very well known parts of the university with their own widely used
> names:
> > Downing Site, New Museums, West Cambridge etc. This is true of most
> > universities now that many are 

Re: [Talk-GB] "OSMUK-in-a-box"

[Brian Prangle]

Looks like you've got yourself a show and tell session at the OSMUK AGM
Jez!

On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 at 12:31, Jez Nicholson  wrote:

> I come from a database background, and when a question isn't easily
> answered with Taginfo or Overpass Turbo I jump to my trusty local postgres
> database of UK data. I have a script that downloads the British Isles from
> Geofabrik, loads it with osm2pgsql, adds some useful indexes, and then
> removes Eire. Thereafter I can run SQL queries across the whole database to
> get 'UK-wide' results.
>
> I think that this would be useful for people on hackdays and the like and
> would be a good service for OSMUK to provide, so have just added a new
> github repository https://github.com/osm-uk/osmuk2pgsql
>
> Friendly-worded Issues are welcome, as are code contributions. I'd like to
> put it on a Docker environment so that it works quickly-and-easily on
> Windows, Linux, Mac, whatever.
>
> Comments? Thoughts?
>
> Regards,
>  Jez
> ___
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> Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] "OSMUK-in-a-box"

[Adam Hoyle]

Hey Jez,

Awesome! I’ve used Docker a few times, so am fairly confident in it, so happy 
to help unless someone else gets there first.

Best,

Adam
On 6 Feb 2020, 12:31 +, Jez Nicholson , wrote:
> I come from a database background, and when a question isn't easily answered 
> with Taginfo or Overpass Turbo I jump to my trusty local postgres database of 
> UK data. I have a script that downloads the British Isles from Geofabrik, 
> loads it with osm2pgsql, adds some useful indexes, and then removes Eire. 
> Thereafter I can run SQL queries across the whole database to get 'UK-wide' 
> results.
>
> I think that this would be useful for people on hackdays and the like and 
> would be a good service for OSMUK to provide, so have just added a new github 
> repository https://github.com/osm-uk/osmuk2pgsql
>
> Friendly-worded Issues are welcome, as are code contributions. I'd like to 
> put it on a Docker environment so that it works quickly-and-easily on 
> Windows, Linux, Mac, whatever.
>
> Comments? Thoughts?
>
> Regards,
>              Jez
> ___
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> Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
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Re: [Talk-GB] Still too many universities in Cambridge

[Dave F via Talk-GB]

Hi Jerry

On 06/02/2020 10:19, SK53 wrote:

Funnily enough this long-standing issue came up at our pub meeting last
month. Although my reaction has always been to let sleeping dogs lie, this
was clearly not the consensus.


It's detrimental to the quality of the OSM database. it requires sorting 
out.



I've sent a message to University of Cambridge Information Services who run
the map.cam.ac.uk site which consumes the OSM data


Is this their sole use? There was a hint in a university blog there were 
other sites



, to warn them that a
change is impending. It's probably worth holding off for a week or so to
allow them to assess any impact on their map.


I was going to give it a week from my post to allow other OSM 
contributors to have their say. I don't want this to fizzle out as has 
happened on previous occasions. OSM is not beholden to data consumers. 
They take the data 'as is'. That includes any amendments.


My planned amendment can always be reversed if there is a valid reason.  
Upsetting CU isn't one.



  Incidentally, knowing a
specific contact point would help as university IT departments can be big
beasts these days. It does show that having a good contact point is always
a good idea for directed edits when data is in use.


It depends how the institution is set up, but I've found bursar/estates 
departments are the more interested in the map's appearance. IT 
departments focus more on 0 & 1s.



As others have said there is a lot of inconsistency: particular with former
houses taken into University or College ownership which sometimes get
building=house/semi and other times building=university. There are other
college buildings of this type which are not hit by amenity=university at
all.


These are to assess what would bel eft after I make my planned amendment.
Note these are not all CU (ie Anglia Ruskin)

Buildings=yes, without amenity but have 'university' in the operator tag:
https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/QsU

Buildings that aren't '=yes', without amenity but have 'university' in 
the operator tag:

https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/QsT

Non building, amenity=university, Has 'University of Cambridge' in the 
operator tag

https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/Qt3

Non building, amenity=university, operator is not 'University of Cambridge'
https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/Qt1

Non building, amenity=university, No operator tag
https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/Qt4


Other general points I noticed relating to  inconsistency/issues (largely
arising because Cambridge got mapped earlier than many places or it just
has a lot of things which are otherwise rare):

- Theological Colleges are loosely associated with the university, and
are equally loosely amenity=university in their own right. I don't know if
we have a regular way of tagging non-degree awarding religious training
centres. These are something of an Oxbridge speciality. I see the London
Institute of Theology is tagged
 as a college. Years ago I
mapped Coleg Trefecca as a conference centre, but used old_ tags to
indicate it's historical role as a college training people for the
ministry. Fortunately some of the odder places
 of former
times have similarly changed their roles.
- Sports facilities (especially isolated playing fields and boathouses)
are just tagged with a ref and operator. Pavilions are often tagged
building=university, as is the sports centre.
- Cambridge colleges are independent corporations in their own right, so
probably should have separate amenity=university relations (although the
world is unlikely to end if not).


They maybe financially independent, but still stand under the umbrella 
of CU. Why can't they have separate college or faculty relations?



  They mostly form discrete campuses.
Isolated parts are named separately so just replacing these with a relation
doesn't work. North Court, Emma is one such example. There are similarly
very well known parts of the university with their own widely used names:
Downing Site, New Museums, West Cambridge etc. This is true of most
universities now that many are multi-campus. I don't think we have a good
approach to these: roles in relations, campus_name … are all possibilities.
(This also applies to schools now that one academy can take over another).
- There's plenty of (non-public accessible) student accommodation which
is not mapped as such. I presume this is intentional. Examples the Trinity
staircase above the bike shop on Jesus Lane, most of Lower Park St (Jesus),
and Portugal Place,
-  Multiple buildings mapped as one
. There are probably
others, but this one I know. The larger part of the building is the
former Cambridgeshire
County Hall

Re: [Talk-GB] "OSMUK-in-a-box"

[Dan S]

Op do 6 feb. 2020 om 13:06 schreef Frederik Ramm :
>
> Hi,
>
> On 06.02.20 13:29, Jez Nicholson wrote:
> > I come from a database background, and when a question isn't easily
> > answered with Taginfo or Overpass Turbo I jump to my trusty local
> > postgres database of UK data. I have a script that downloads the British
> > Isles from Geofabrik, loads it with osm2pgsql, adds some useful indexes,
> > and then removes Eire. Thereafter I can run SQL queries across the whole
> > database to get 'UK-wide' result
> I would recommend using --hstore-all instead of just --hstore because
> this gives you *all* tags in the "tags" column and therefore makes some
> analyses easier (cf. some of the examples below).
>
> It is certainly a good approach to answer complicated questions, and
> also an excellent training ground for people to hone their SQL skills.
> Some scribbles from a recent training:
>
> "what are the most frequently used key on a polygon":
>
> select count(*) as c, (each(tags)).key as k from planet_osm_polygon
> group by k order by c desc limit 10;
>
> or "what are the most frequently used key-value combos":
>
> select count(*) as c, each(tags) as k from planet_osm_polygon group by k
> order by c desc;
>
> or "which are the longest hiking routes":
>
> select osm_id, st_length(way::geography) as l, tags from planet_osm_line
> where tags->'route' = 'hiking' order by l desc;
>
> Having said that, for the easier questions there's also the per-region
> taginfo on Geofabrik (it's a bit beta still but good enough) - it
> doesn't actually feature the UK as an area but you can do
> England/Scotland/Wales separately:
>
> http://taginfo.geofabrik.de/europe/great-britain/england/

Also there seems to be GB:
http://taginfo.geofabrik.de/europe/great-britain/

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Re: [Talk-GB] "OSMUK-in-a-box"

[Paul Berry]

When you have the setup guide drafted, I'll have a go at following the
instructions to see if they're correct. I've never set up anything OSM
locally so I can be your fresh pair of eyes on it.

Thanks.

Regards,
*Paul*

On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 at 13:17, Derry Hamilton  wrote:

> Hi Tony,
> I did something similar a while back at
> https://github.com/rasilon/osm_database so that might help you get
> started?
>
> Cheers,
> Derry
>
> On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 at 13:10, Tony OSM  wrote:
>
>> Absolutely Fabulous!
>>
>> Not done Docker but I'll start learning how to get it on those
>> environments.
>>
>> I'll try to support by QA and writing instructions as to how to get it
>> live.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> TonyS999
>> On 06/02/2020 12:29, Jez Nicholson wrote:
>>
>> I come from a database background, and when a question isn't easily
>> answered with Taginfo or Overpass Turbo I jump to my trusty local postgres
>> database of UK data. I have a script that downloads the British Isles from
>> Geofabrik, loads it with osm2pgsql, adds some useful indexes, and then
>> removes Eire. Thereafter I can run SQL queries across the whole database to
>> get 'UK-wide' results.
>>
>> I think that this would be useful for people on hackdays and the like and
>> would be a good service for OSMUK to provide, so have just added a new
>> github repository https://github.com/osm-uk/osmuk2pgsql
>>
>> Friendly-worded Issues are welcome, as are code contributions. I'd like
>> to put it on a Docker environment so that it works quickly-and-easily on
>> Windows, Linux, Mac, whatever.
>>
>> Comments? Thoughts?
>>
>> Regards,
>>  Jez
>>
>> ___
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>>
>> ___
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>>
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Re: [Talk-GB] "OSMUK-in-a-box"

[Jez Nicholson]

Excellent. Not a new idea then.

https://alexurquhart.com/post/set-up-postgis-with-docker/ looks like a
reasonable summary of what Docker is and why.

It being the whole of the UK, the download and create takes a while. I will
be giving the choice of a smaller area, e.g. Greater Manchester.

I'd like to include some sample SQL queries to help people get started.
Help here would be useful.

On Thu, 6 Feb 2020, 13:17 Derry Hamilton,  wrote:

> Hi Tony,
> I did something similar a while back at
> https://github.com/rasilon/osm_database so that might help you get
> started?
>
> Cheers,
> Derry
>
> On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 at 13:10, Tony OSM  wrote:
>
>> Absolutely Fabulous!
>>
>> Not done Docker but I'll start learning how to get it on those
>> environments.
>>
>> I'll try to support by QA and writing instructions as to how to get it
>> live.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> TonyS999
>> On 06/02/2020 12:29, Jez Nicholson wrote:
>>
>> I come from a database background, and when a question isn't easily
>> answered with Taginfo or Overpass Turbo I jump to my trusty local postgres
>> database of UK data. I have a script that downloads the British Isles from
>> Geofabrik, loads it with osm2pgsql, adds some useful indexes, and then
>> removes Eire. Thereafter I can run SQL queries across the whole database to
>> get 'UK-wide' results.
>>
>> I think that this would be useful for people on hackdays and the like and
>> would be a good service for OSMUK to provide, so have just added a new
>> github repository https://github.com/osm-uk/osmuk2pgsql
>>
>> Friendly-worded Issues are welcome, as are code contributions. I'd like
>> to put it on a Docker environment so that it works quickly-and-easily on
>> Windows, Linux, Mac, whatever.
>>
>> Comments? Thoughts?
>>
>> Regards,
>>  Jez
>>
>> ___
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>>
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>>
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Re: [Talk-GB] "OSMUK-in-a-box"

[Derry Hamilton]

Hi Tony,
I did something similar a while back at
https://github.com/rasilon/osm_database so that might help you get started?

Cheers,
Derry

On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 at 13:10, Tony OSM  wrote:

> Absolutely Fabulous!
>
> Not done Docker but I'll start learning how to get it on those
> environments.
>
> I'll try to support by QA and writing instructions as to how to get it
> live.
>
> Cheers
>
> TonyS999
> On 06/02/2020 12:29, Jez Nicholson wrote:
>
> I come from a database background, and when a question isn't easily
> answered with Taginfo or Overpass Turbo I jump to my trusty local postgres
> database of UK data. I have a script that downloads the British Isles from
> Geofabrik, loads it with osm2pgsql, adds some useful indexes, and then
> removes Eire. Thereafter I can run SQL queries across the whole database to
> get 'UK-wide' results.
>
> I think that this would be useful for people on hackdays and the like and
> would be a good service for OSMUK to provide, so have just added a new
> github repository https://github.com/osm-uk/osmuk2pgsql
>
> Friendly-worded Issues are welcome, as are code contributions. I'd like to
> put it on a Docker environment so that it works quickly-and-easily on
> Windows, Linux, Mac, whatever.
>
> Comments? Thoughts?
>
> Regards,
>  Jez
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] "OSMUK-in-a-box"

[Tony OSM]

Absolutely Fabulous!

Not done Docker but I'll start learning how to get it on those 
environments.


I'll try to support by QA and writing instructions as to how to get it 
live.


Cheers

TonyS999

On 06/02/2020 12:29, Jez Nicholson wrote:
I come from a database background, and when a question isn't easily 
answered with Taginfo or Overpass Turbo I jump to my trusty local 
postgres database of UK data. I have a script that downloads the 
British Isles from Geofabrik, loads it with osm2pgsql, adds some 
useful indexes, and then removes Eire. Thereafter I can run SQL 
queries across the whole database to get 'UK-wide' results.


I think that this would be useful for people on hackdays and the like 
and would be a good service for OSMUK to provide, so have just added a 
new github repository https://github.com/osm-uk/osmuk2pgsql


Friendly-worded Issues are welcome, as are code contributions. I'd 
like to put it on a Docker environment so that it works 
quickly-and-easily on Windows, Linux, Mac, whatever.


Comments? Thoughts?

Regards,
             Jez

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Re: [Talk-GB] "OSMUK-in-a-box"

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

On 06.02.20 13:29, Jez Nicholson wrote:
> I come from a database background, and when a question isn't easily
> answered with Taginfo or Overpass Turbo I jump to my trusty local
> postgres database of UK data. I have a script that downloads the British
> Isles from Geofabrik, loads it with osm2pgsql, adds some useful indexes,
> and then removes Eire. Thereafter I can run SQL queries across the whole
> database to get 'UK-wide' result
I would recommend using --hstore-all instead of just --hstore because
this gives you *all* tags in the "tags" column and therefore makes some
analyses easier (cf. some of the examples below).

It is certainly a good approach to answer complicated questions, and
also an excellent training ground for people to hone their SQL skills.
Some scribbles from a recent training:

"what are the most frequently used key on a polygon":

select count(*) as c, (each(tags)).key as k from planet_osm_polygon
group by k order by c desc limit 10;

or "what are the most frequently used key-value combos":

select count(*) as c, each(tags) as k from planet_osm_polygon group by k
order by c desc;

or "which are the longest hiking routes":

select osm_id, st_length(way::geography) as l, tags from planet_osm_line
where tags->'route' = 'hiking' order by l desc;

Having said that, for the easier questions there's also the per-region
taginfo on Geofabrik (it's a bit beta still but good enough) - it
doesn't actually feature the UK as an area but you can do
England/Scotland/Wales separately:

http://taginfo.geofabrik.de/europe/great-britain/england/

Bye
Frederik

-- 
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"

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[Talk-GB] "OSMUK-in-a-box"

[Jez Nicholson]

I come from a database background, and when a question isn't easily
answered with Taginfo or Overpass Turbo I jump to my trusty local postgres
database of UK data. I have a script that downloads the British Isles from
Geofabrik, loads it with osm2pgsql, adds some useful indexes, and then
removes Eire. Thereafter I can run SQL queries across the whole database to
get 'UK-wide' results.

I think that this would be useful for people on hackdays and the like and
would be a good service for OSMUK to provide, so have just added a new
github repository https://github.com/osm-uk/osmuk2pgsql

Friendly-worded Issues are welcome, as are code contributions. I'd like to
put it on a Docker environment so that it works quickly-and-easily on
Windows, Linux, Mac, whatever.

Comments? Thoughts?

Regards,
 Jez
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Re: [Talk-GB] Still too many universities in Cambridge

[Jez Nicholson]

Nice work Jerry. I've touted Universities as a Quarterly Project as I
believe that a number of them use and contribute to OSM...and those that
don't, should. Maybe it can gain traction for next quarter...OSMUK could be
used as a means to introduce ourselves officially to any university that
doesn't know about OSM, but Cambridge are long-time contributors.

Remember to add information to
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/University_of_Cambridge

Meanwhile, the conversation has also jumped to the Tagging list and it
would be good to keep an eye on them.

Regards,
 Jez

On Thu, Feb 6, 2020 at 10:21 AM SK53  wrote:

> Funnily enough this long-standing issue came up at our pub meeting last
> month. Although my reaction has always been to let sleeping dogs lie, this
> was clearly not the consensus.
>
> I've sent a message to University of Cambridge Information Services who
> run the map.cam.ac.uk site which consumes the OSM data, to warn them that
> a change is impending. It's probably worth holding off for a week or so to
> allow them to assess any impact on their map. Incidentally, knowing a
> specific contact point would help as university IT departments can be big
> beasts these days. It does show that having a good contact point is always
> a good idea for directed edits when data is in use.
>
> As others have said there is a lot of inconsistency: particular with
> former houses taken into University or College ownership which sometimes
> get building=house/semi and other times building=university. There are
> other college buildings of this type which are not hit by
> amenity=university at all.
>
> Other general points I noticed relating to  inconsistency/issues (largely
> arising because Cambridge got mapped earlier than many places or it just
> has a lot of things which are otherwise rare):
>
>- Theological Colleges are loosely associated with the university, and
>are equally loosely amenity=university in their own right. I don't know if
>we have a regular way of tagging non-degree awarding religious training
>centres. These are something of an Oxbridge speciality. I see the London
>Institute of Theology is tagged
> as a college. Years ago
>I mapped Coleg Trefecca as a conference centre, but used old_ tags to
>indicate it's historical role as a college training people for the
>ministry. Fortunately some of the odder places
> of former
>times have similarly changed their roles.
>- Sports facilities (especially isolated playing fields and
>boathouses) are just tagged with a ref and operator. Pavilions are often
>tagged building=university, as is the sports centre.
>- Cambridge colleges are independent corporations in their own right,
>so probably should have separate amenity=university relations (although the
>world is unlikely to end if not). They mostly form discrete campuses.
>Isolated parts are named separately so just replacing these with a relation
>doesn't work. North Court, Emma is one such example. There are similarly
>very well known parts of the university with their own widely used names:
>Downing Site, New Museums, West Cambridge etc. This is true of most
>universities now that many are multi-campus. I don't think we have a good
>approach to these: roles in relations, campus_name … are all possibilities.
>(This also applies to schools now that one academy can take over another).
>- There's plenty of (non-public accessible) student accommodation
>which is not mapped as such. I presume this is intentional. Examples the
>Trinity staircase above the bike shop on Jesus Lane, most of Lower Park St
>(Jesus), and Portugal Place,
>-  Multiple buildings mapped as one
>. There are probably
>others, but this one I know. The larger part of the building is the former 
> Cambridgeshire
>County Hall
>
> ,
>built around 1910 and Grade II listed, the S part is a 17th century
>house
>
> 
>(formerly 'X' staircase), also Grade II. The two buildings form a single
>unit of student accommodation which presumably reflects the mapping.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jerry
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, 4 Feb 2020 at 15:15, Dave F via Talk-GB 
> wrote:
>
>> On 04/02/2020 14:28, Dan S wrote:
>> > Hi Dave,
>> >
>> > I agree with what you suggest. Can we be a bit precise though about
>> > what you propose? You're proposing to remove amenity=university from
>> > building=university in Cambridge, and make no other tagging changes?
>>
>> That's correct. I'm going to load the 1050 return by this overpass query
>> into JOSM:
>> [bbox:{{bbox}}];
>> 

Re: [Talk-GB] Still too many universities in Cambridge

[SK53]

Funnily enough this long-standing issue came up at our pub meeting last
month. Although my reaction has always been to let sleeping dogs lie, this
was clearly not the consensus.

I've sent a message to University of Cambridge Information Services who run
the map.cam.ac.uk site which consumes the OSM data, to warn them that a
change is impending. It's probably worth holding off for a week or so to
allow them to assess any impact on their map. Incidentally, knowing a
specific contact point would help as university IT departments can be big
beasts these days. It does show that having a good contact point is always
a good idea for directed edits when data is in use.

As others have said there is a lot of inconsistency: particular with former
houses taken into University or College ownership which sometimes get
building=house/semi and other times building=university. There are other
college buildings of this type which are not hit by amenity=university at
all.

Other general points I noticed relating to  inconsistency/issues (largely
arising because Cambridge got mapped earlier than many places or it just
has a lot of things which are otherwise rare):

   - Theological Colleges are loosely associated with the university, and
   are equally loosely amenity=university in their own right. I don't know if
   we have a regular way of tagging non-degree awarding religious training
   centres. These are something of an Oxbridge speciality. I see the London
   Institute of Theology is tagged
    as a college. Years ago I
   mapped Coleg Trefecca as a conference centre, but used old_ tags to
   indicate it's historical role as a college training people for the
   ministry. Fortunately some of the odder places
    of former
   times have similarly changed their roles.
   - Sports facilities (especially isolated playing fields and boathouses)
   are just tagged with a ref and operator. Pavilions are often tagged
   building=university, as is the sports centre.
   - Cambridge colleges are independent corporations in their own right, so
   probably should have separate amenity=university relations (although the
   world is unlikely to end if not). They mostly form discrete campuses.
   Isolated parts are named separately so just replacing these with a relation
   doesn't work. North Court, Emma is one such example. There are similarly
   very well known parts of the university with their own widely used names:
   Downing Site, New Museums, West Cambridge etc. This is true of most
   universities now that many are multi-campus. I don't think we have a good
   approach to these: roles in relations, campus_name … are all possibilities.
   (This also applies to schools now that one academy can take over another).
   - There's plenty of (non-public accessible) student accommodation which
   is not mapped as such. I presume this is intentional. Examples the Trinity
   staircase above the bike shop on Jesus Lane, most of Lower Park St (Jesus),
   and Portugal Place,
   -  Multiple buildings mapped as one
   . There are probably
   others, but this one I know. The larger part of the building is the
former Cambridgeshire
   County Hall
   
,
   built around 1910 and Grade II listed, the S part is a 17th century house
   

   (formerly 'X' staircase), also Grade II. The two buildings form a single
   unit of student accommodation which presumably reflects the mapping.

Cheers,

Jerry




On Tue, 4 Feb 2020 at 15:15, Dave F via Talk-GB 
wrote:

> On 04/02/2020 14:28, Dan S wrote:
> > Hi Dave,
> >
> > I agree with what you suggest. Can we be a bit precise though about
> > what you propose? You're proposing to remove amenity=university from
> > building=university in Cambridge, and make no other tagging changes?
>
> That's correct. I'm going to load the 1050 return by this overpass query
> into JOSM:
> [bbox:{{bbox}}];
> nwr[amenity=university][building=university];
> out meta geom;
>
> plus another 7 which are still tagged as building=yes.
>
> > (Ironically, the current tagging makes it hard for me to search to see
> > if there's a "proper" amenity=university in there somewhere, e.g. as a
> > relation or area covering a large swathe of them.)
>
> There isn't, I'm afraid.. it's a right hotchpotch
>
> https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/QnH
>
> These are the remaining 117 amenity=university which will need to be
> rectified at a later date..
>
> Cheers
> DaveF
> > Op di 4 feb. 2020 om 14:15 schreef Dave F via Talk-GB
> > :
> >> Hi
> >> There was a discussion 5 years ago. There may have been others.
> >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-gb/2015-May/017455.html
> >>
> >> Many amenity=university