Hi Jerry
On 06/02/2020 10:19, SK53 wrote:
Funnily enough this long-standing issue came up at our pub meeting last
month. Although my reaction has always been to let sleeping dogs lie, this
was clearly not the consensus.
It's detrimental to the quality of the OSM database. it requires sorting
out.
I've sent a message to University of Cambridge Information Services who run
the map.cam.ac.uk site which consumes the OSM data
Is this their sole use? There was a hint in a university blog there were
other sites
, to warn them that a
change is impending. It's probably worth holding off for a week or so to
allow them to assess any impact on their map.
I was going to give it a week from my post to allow other OSM
contributors to have their say. I don't want this to fizzle out as has
happened on previous occasions. OSM is not beholden to data consumers.
They take the data 'as is'. That includes any amendments.
My planned amendment can always be reversed if there is a valid reason.
Upsetting CU isn't one.
Incidentally, knowing a
specific contact point would help as university IT departments can be big
beasts these days. It does show that having a good contact point is always
a good idea for directed edits when data is in use.
It depends how the institution is set up, but I've found bursar/estates
departments are the more interested in the map's appearance. IT
departments focus more on 0 & 1s.
As others have said there is a lot of inconsistency: particular with former
houses taken into University or College ownership which sometimes get
building=house/semi and other times building=university. There are other
college buildings of this type which are not hit by amenity=university at
all.
These are to assess what would bel eft after I make my planned amendment.
Note these are not all CU (ie Anglia Ruskin)
Buildings=yes, without amenity but have 'university' in the operator tag:
https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/QsU
Buildings that aren't '=yes', without amenity but have 'university' in
the operator tag:
https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/QsT
Non building, amenity=university, Has 'University of Cambridge' in the
operator tag
https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/Qt3
Non building, amenity=university, operator is not 'University of Cambridge'
https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/Qt1
Non building, amenity=university, No operator tag
https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/Qt4
Other general points I noticed relating to inconsistency/issues (largely
arising because Cambridge got mapped earlier than many places or it just
has a lot of things which are otherwise rare):
- Theological Colleges are loosely associated with the university, and
are equally loosely amenity=university in their own right. I don't know if
we have a regular way of tagging non-degree awarding religious training
centres. These are something of an Oxbridge speciality. I see the London
Institute of Theology is tagged
<https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/524375396> as a college. Years ago I
mapped Coleg Trefecca as a conference centre, but used old_ tags to
indicate it's historical role as a college training people for the
ministry. Fortunately some of the odder places
<https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/53.18591/-3.02706> of former
times have similarly changed their roles.
- Sports facilities (especially isolated playing fields and boathouses)
are just tagged with a ref and operator. Pavilions are often tagged
building=university, as is the sports centre.
- Cambridge colleges are independent corporations in their own right, so
probably should have separate amenity=university relations (although the
world is unlikely to end if not).
They maybe financially independent, but still stand under the umbrella
of CU. Why can't they have separate college or faculty relations?
They mostly form discrete campuses.
Isolated parts are named separately so just replacing these with a relation
doesn't work. North Court, Emma is one such example. There are similarly
very well known parts of the university with their own widely used names:
Downing Site, New Museums, West Cambridge etc. This is true of most
universities now that many are multi-campus. I don't think we have a good
approach to these: roles in relations, campus_name … are all possibilities.
(This also applies to schools now that one academy can take over another).
- There's plenty of (non-public accessible) student accommodation which
is not mapped as such. I presume this is intentional. Examples the Trinity
staircase above the bike shop on Jesus Lane, most of Lower Park St (Jesus),
and Portugal Place,
- Multiple buildings mapped as one
<https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/147487988>. There are probably
others, but this one I know. The larger part of the building is the
former Cambridgeshire
County Hall
<https://britishlistedbuildings.co.uk/101265198-county-hall-cambridge#.Xjr8Fm52u01>,
built around 1910 and Grade II listed, the S part is a 17th century house
<https://britishlistedbuildings.co.uk/101332167-christs-college-x-staircase-cambridge-market-ward#.Xjr7yG52u00>
(formerly 'X' staircase), also Grade II. The two buildings form a single
unit of student accommodation which presumably reflects the mapping.
Cheers,
Jerry
On Tue, 4 Feb 2020 at 15:15, Dave F via Talk-GB <talk-gb@openstreetmap.org>
wrote:
On 04/02/2020 14:28, Dan S wrote:
Hi Dave,
I agree with what you suggest. Can we be a bit precise though about
what you propose? You're proposing to remove amenity=university from
building=university in Cambridge, and make no other tagging changes?
That's correct. I'm going to load the 1050 return by this overpass query
into JOSM:
[bbox:{{bbox}}];
nwr[amenity=university][building=university];
out meta geom;
plus another 7 which are still tagged as building=yes.
(Ironically, the current tagging makes it hard for me to search to see
if there's a "proper" amenity=university in there somewhere, e.g. as a
relation or area covering a large swathe of them.)
There isn't, I'm afraid.. it's a right hotchpotch
https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/QnH
These are the remaining 117 amenity=university which will need to be
rectified at a later date..
Cheers
DaveF
Op di 4 feb. 2020 om 14:15 schreef Dave F via Talk-GB
<talk-gb@openstreetmap.org>:
Hi
There was a discussion 5 years ago. There may have been others.
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-gb/2015-May/017455.html
Many amenity=university tags were added unnecessarily to building=yes
A contributor had converted these to building=university, in accordance
with the wiki.
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:building%3Duniversity
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/40649767
This allows the removal of the amenity tags without loss of data.
The user who created his disparate tagging schema has had plenty of time
to rectify. I think this should be performed now.
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