Re: [Talk-GB] Footpaths - search for the missing ones

[Adam Snape]

A very interesting dataset,

Just a belated comment regarding the footpaths on the c.1900 maps. We do
need to be careful not to infer too much about public rights. It is only
modern (1960s onwards) OS maps which have shown definitive rights of way
(in OSM terms designation=public_footpath). Older OS maps made no attempt
to distinguish rights, merely mapping physical features that the surveyor
saw on the ground (highway=footway or highway=path). Since the late 19th
Century OS Maps have always carried the disclaimer that the depiction of a
path or track on the map is no evidence of a right of way.

In truth there is some evidence that public use was often considered by the
OS and so depiction as a FP may provide some limited supporting evidence of
highway status, So it's certainly worth investigating paths marked on old
maps for potential public rights but I'd avoid simply assuming that 1900
paths marked as FP on OS maps are unrecorded public footpaths.

I've been doing a lot of research into unrecorded rights of way in my area
over the last few years, I'm happy to help if anybody needs any assistance
with their research or DMMO application.

Kind regards,

Adam

On 9 June 2018 at 14:06, Rob Nickerson  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I received an email yesterday from Chris at National Library of Scotland /
> GB1900 project. All public domain links so reposting it here:
>
> 1.I was curious myself to see how the distribution of footpaths
> looked a century ago based on the GB1900 abbreviations so I mapped the data
> I sent you at http://geo.nls.uk/maps/gb1900footpath/
>
> 2.On 9 July in London there will be an official launch event of the
> cleaned and edited GB1900 dataset: https://www.eventbrite.com/e/
> gb1900-historical-gazetteer-a-celebration-and-launch-tickets-46224059406
> You or your colleagues would be welcome to attend, but no worries if you
> can’t, and I’ll keep you posted with the revised/cleaned dataset next
> month. It would be good to keep possible OSM projects involving this
> dataset in mind for the future.
>
>
>
> If anyone is in London and would like to attend this (or can travel in to
> attend this) please let me know.
> Best regards,
> *Rob*
>
>
> On Wed, 9 May 2018 at 21:13, Rob Nickerson 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi
>>
>> Just posted a "challenge" to Loomio for anyone who is interested. It's a
>> bit beyond me so thought I'd post it here.
>>
>> Basically we have point data of historic footpaths (some 300k points) and
>> I think it would be amazing to compare this to OSM to see if we can find
>> more footpaths to map. Obviously some will be long gone due to 100 years of
>> urban sprawl, but I'm hopeful we can still find some missing paths.
>>
>> https://www.loomio.org/d/pviAOkGR/challenge-footpaths
>>
>> Thanks,
>> *Rob*
>>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Footpaths - search for the missing ones

[Rob Nickerson]

Hi all,

I received an email yesterday from Chris at National Library of Scotland /
GB1900 project. All public domain links so reposting it here:

1.I was curious myself to see how the distribution of footpaths looked
a century ago based on the GB1900 abbreviations so I mapped the data I sent
you at http://geo.nls.uk/maps/gb1900footpath/

2.On 9 July in London there will be an official launch event of the
cleaned and edited GB1900 dataset:
https://www.eventbrite.com/e/gb1900-historical-gazetteer-a-celebration-and-launch-tickets-46224059406
You or your colleagues would be welcome to attend, but no worries if you
can’t, and I’ll keep you posted with the revised/cleaned dataset next
month. It would be good to keep possible OSM projects involving this
dataset in mind for the future.



If anyone is in London and would like to attend this (or can travel in to
attend this) please let me know.
Best regards,
*Rob*


On Wed, 9 May 2018 at 21:13, Rob Nickerson 
wrote:

> Hi
>
> Just posted a "challenge" to Loomio for anyone who is interested. It's a
> bit beyond me so thought I'd post it here.
>
> Basically we have point data of historic footpaths (some 300k points) and
> I think it would be amazing to compare this to OSM to see if we can find
> more footpaths to map. Obviously some will be long gone due to 100 years of
> urban sprawl, but I'm hopeful we can still find some missing paths.
>
> https://www.loomio.org/d/pviAOkGR/challenge-footpaths
>
> Thanks,
> *Rob*
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Footpaths - search for the missing ones

[Nick Whitelegg]

Hello Rob, Jerry, Richard,


Agree with what Rob's saying - while Rowmaps is a good point to find missing 
paths for OSM, the "FPs" 1900 maps could be used to find "green lanes" aka 
"other routes with public access" or unrecorded paths - and could certainly, 
with the other historical OS maps, be used to find missing paths for 2026.


I think with the right website we could get a crowdsourced project going to 
both collect evidence for re-opening paths before the deadline, and, at the 
same time, find missing paths for OSM too. Providing a council data overlay 
would be another way of helping find the OSM paths.


Rob - yes your help on the whole promotion side of things would be very 
valuable as that isn't particularly my strength. If you could have a word with 
NLS to seek permission to use their tiles that would be great too.


Hopefully we'd be ok to use the OOC tileservers of OSM too, though if not I 
guess we could obtain the tiles as a ZIP or tar.gz archive and host them 
separately.


I'd be more than happy - indeed enthusiastic - to do the coding and get initial 
hosting (a Bytemark VM like Freemap's would do for now) - though as I said 
earlier the other skill we need is someone with good HCI/UX skills as that is 
not my area of strength.

(If we have difficulty here, it's conceivable it could be done as a student 
project at my university)


Thinking of a name, how about "Find the Footpaths"?


Nick




From: Rob Nickerson <rob.j.nicker...@gmail.com>
Sent: 12 May 2018 23:49:19
To: SK53
Cc: Nick Whitelegg; Talk-GB
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Footpaths - search for the missing ones

Hi Jerry, Nick, Richard,

Footpaths was what got me in to OSM so I'm so pleased to see all this :-) 
You've got me excited about getting back out there over the summer and picking 
up as many new paths as possible.

@Jerry: Your comment about the GB1900 caught me off guard at first. You seem to 
be saying that even with filtering there are still too many results from GB1900 
to investigate. Caught off guard because isn't this OSM's strength - the 
ability to go out and crowd source all this? Re-reading your post, I see that 
what you are saying is that OSM has a lot of missing paths but the rowmaps data 
is just a good as a starting point for finding these. The GB1900 data might 
them be used to find stuff missing from the local authorities dataset. Is that 
right or am I still not understanding?

I think we can do a project here. As you know, I'm not so good on the technical 
side, but am more than willing to throw my support behind any project where I 
can (e.g. engaging with NLS, comms, promotion, seeking new members to join the 
hunt and therefore join OSM). It sounds like this is what the 3 of you are 
looking at this already :-). Give me a shout if you need anything.

>Is there permission to use OOC tiles

>The NLS 6 inch maps are needed for good comparison, although I suspect many 
>paths will be on 1:25k

I'm not sure about the OOC tiles; I think Andy Robinson (blackadder) was 
involved with the scanning, but ultimatley these are hosted on OSM servers so 
you need to check with them.

We do have a great relationship with the NLS though. Although they have put 
some of their maps behind a subscription API, they are big supporters of the 
OSM (and OHM) projects. The publish 6 inch and 25 inch [1] for all of Great 
Britain now. I am more than willing to speak with NLS to see if we can 
formalise this as part of a footpath project. There's no harm in asking! Just 
let me know.

P.S. Sorry if this feels like me being slow / repeating the obviously - am 
feeling under the weather at the moment

[1] https://maps.nls.uk/openlayers/?m=1=176

Rob


On Fri, 11 May 2018 at 16:40, SK53 
<sk53@gmail.com<mailto:sk53@gmail.com>> wrote:
Quick impressions:

  *   There's a fair amount of noise in text, but most are "F.P."
  *   Lat/lon could be reduced from 15 decimal places, would make file size far 
smaller. OSM use 7, but I suspect 5 (~ 1 m accuracy) would be fine.
  *   Filtering by a buffer round OSM roads does not reduce count enough to be 
useful. 21k points in East Mids goes to 14k with 20 m buffer, 10 with 50 m 
buffer.
  *   Instead created 1000 m buffer around points and looked for distance from 
OSM highways in that buffer. This allows to focus on points which are distant 
from existing highways.
  *   In the main dots which are a long way from highways are clustered in 
areas we already know lack footpaths. Map shows points over 400 m from an OSM 
highway, underlain by a heatmap of total length of missing prows. It is 
apparent that these are coincident (W of Derby, around Buxton, SE Derbyshire, 
Trent Valley in N Notts, much of Lincolnshire). Other areas may be simply a 
result of rather different comparison periods for the data (distance from road 
is 3 years old OSM data). 
https://www.dropb

Re: [Talk-GB] Footpaths - search for the missing ones

[Rob Nickerson]

cation of direction of the path? An "FP" label presumably has
>>>> orientation so something could possibly be deduced about its course at that
>>>> point if orientation was available too.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I also already visualise the data so visualising the missing ROWs would
>>>> be easily done too.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It would be nice to develop features to find nearby locations where
>>>> there are lots of these missing paths, e.g. if I am in Southampton, find
>>>> the nearest village with 10, 20 (or whatever) missing paths within a 5-mile
>>>> radius.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Would be nice to have an app too so you can find these footpaths while
>>>> you're actually out.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> So potentially interested in this, yes. I don't want to commit 100% but
>>>> would be nice to have the data.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Nick
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> *From:* Richard Fairhurst <rich...@systemed.net>
>>>> *Sent:* 10 May 2018 09:07:49
>>>> *To:* talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Talk-GB] Footpaths - search for the missing ones
>>>>
>>>> Rob Nickerson wrote:
>>>> > Basically we have point data of historic footpaths (some 300k points)
>>>> and
>>>> > I think it would be amazing to compare this to OSM to see if we can
>>>> find
>>>> > more footpaths to map.
>>>>
>>>> Very cool. Could you post the data somewhere?
>>>>
>>>> Richard
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Sent from: http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/Great-Britain-f5372682.html
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Footpaths - search for the missing ones

[SK53]

I've put up 2 umap instances:

   - Footpaths
   

   for parts of Notts quickly traced in JOSM from NPE maps (with a few from
   1:25k provisional edition. Uses NPE 1:25k maps as background
   - Footpaths
   

   for Rushcliffe District (a district seems reasonable load for umap,
   counties tend to be too much). with NPE map background, Rushcliffe PRoW in
   white as per Richard's example, and existing OSM highways with designation
   (not checked for valid values) with a thinner red line. I've added the
   gb1900 points w/o metadata as a layer which is not visible by default.

1:25k maps seem to contain pretty much the same data regarding paths as NPE
maps but are much better aligned.

I've never tried directly adding data to umap, nor editing existing data
but I believe this is a possibility.

A specific place to look is around Wiverton Hall (15/52.9234/-0.9393) where
a path runs from the River Smite slightly E of N and close to the hall.
This no longer exists: a fact I know from a recent ground survey. The
terrain is flat arable land: this year mainly fields of rape.

Jerry

On 12 May 2018 at 15:30, Richard Fairhurst  wrote:

> Nick Whitelegg wrote:
> > I realise this is going a bit OT for OSM but wondering if this data,
> > together with the newer historic maps from the earlier part of the
> > 20th century, could be used to build a platform for the purpose of
> > finding these lost paths? Had a quick look yesterday and there
> > doesn't appear to currently be a web platform for this purpose.
> >
> > We could have a base layer of an OOC OS Map from the earlier 20th
> > century (up to 50 years ago) with both OSM data and the location of
> > these "F.P"s superimposed for the purpose of users searching for these
> > lost paths.
>
> I experimented with something like that earlier this year:
> https://twitter.com/richardf/status/948578070692290560
>
> Would be great to do it properly but I'm pushed for time at the moment.
>
> cheers
> Richard
>
>
>
> --
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>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Footpaths - search for the missing ones

[Nick Whitelegg]

Nice.


I may well have time to do it over summer if there's sufficient interest 
(forget May, but June-Sep are relatively quiet for me) from a coding POV but 
would need someone else to do a nice UI/front end for it.


Nick



From: Richard Fairhurst <rich...@systemed.net>
Sent: 12 May 2018 15:30:17
To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Footpaths - search for the missing ones

Nick Whitelegg wrote:
> I realise this is going a bit OT for OSM but wondering if this data,
> together with the newer historic maps from the earlier part of the
> 20th century, could be used to build a platform for the purpose of
> finding these lost paths? Had a quick look yesterday and there
> doesn't appear to currently be a web platform for this purpose.
>
> We could have a base layer of an OOC OS Map from the earlier 20th
> century (up to 50 years ago) with both OSM data and the location of
> these "F.P"s superimposed for the purpose of users searching for these
> lost paths.

I experimented with something like that earlier this year:
https://twitter.com/richardf/status/948578070692290560

Would be great to do it properly but I'm pushed for time at the moment.

cheers
Richard



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Re: [Talk-GB] Footpaths - search for the missing ones

[Richard Fairhurst]

Nick Whitelegg wrote:
> I realise this is going a bit OT for OSM but wondering if this data,
> together with the newer historic maps from the earlier part of the 
> 20th century, could be used to build a platform for the purpose of 
> finding these lost paths? Had a quick look yesterday and there 
> doesn't appear to currently be a web platform for this purpose.
>
> We could have a base layer of an OOC OS Map from the earlier 20th 
> century (up to 50 years ago) with both OSM data and the location of 
> these "F.P"s superimposed for the purpose of users searching for these 
> lost paths.

I experimented with something like that earlier this year:
https://twitter.com/richardf/status/948578070692290560

Would be great to do it properly but I'm pushed for time at the moment.

cheers
Richard



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Re: [Talk-GB] Footpaths - search for the missing ones

[Nick Whitelegg]

I realise this is going a bit OT for OSM but wondering if this data, together 
with the newer historic maps from the earlier part of the 20th century, could 
be used to build a platform for the purpose of finding these lost paths? Had a 
quick look yesterday and there doesn't appear to currently be a web platform 
for this purpose.


We could have a base layer of an OOC OS Map from the earlier 20th century (up 
to 50 years ago) with both OSM data and the location of these "F.P"s 
superimposed for the purpose of users searching for these lost paths. When a 
user visits an area with an "F.P" they could annotate with evidence of possible 
current use.


A side effect of people searching for these historic paths could of course be 
finding missing still-extant rights of way  for OSM.


Thoughts on this? Is there permission to use OOC tiles (I've lost track of who 
maintains OOC tileservers these days) in third party projects?


Thanks,

Nick


<http://www.solent.ac.uk/disclaimer/disclaimer.aspx>

From: SK53 <sk53@gmail.com>
Sent: 11 May 2018 16:40:21
To: Rob Nickerson
Cc: Nick Whitelegg; Talk-GB
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Footpaths - search for the missing ones

Quick impressions:

  *   There's a fair amount of noise in text, but most are "F.P."
  *   Lat/lon could be reduced from 15 decimal places, would make file size far 
smaller. OSM use 7, but I suspect 5 (~ 1 m accuracy) would be fine.
  *   Filtering by a buffer round OSM roads does not reduce count enough to be 
useful. 21k points in East Mids goes to 14k with 20 m buffer, 10 with 50 m 
buffer.
  *   Instead created 1000 m buffer around points and looked for distance from 
OSM highways in that buffer. This allows to focus on points which are distant 
from existing highways.
  *   In the main dots which are a long way from highways are clustered in 
areas we already know lack footpaths. Map shows points over 400 m from an OSM 
highway, underlain by a heatmap of total length of missing prows. It is 
apparent that these are coincident (W of Derby, around Buxton, SE Derbyshire, 
Trent Valley in N Notts, much of Lincolnshire). Other areas may be simply a 
result of rather different comparison periods for the data (distance from road 
is 3 years old OSM data). 
https://www.dropbox.com/s/nz0893l9io61vtk/gb1900_fps1.jpg?dl=0
  *   Paths which were formerly isolated may now be close to new roads and 
therefore get discarded with use of buffers or short distances.
  *   Not clear that searching in urban areas is worthwhile. Using something 
like the OS Urban Area shape files may reduce volume.
  *   Even with these filters the total points more than 500 m from a (2015) 
OSM road is nearly a 1000 for the East Midlands
  *   The NLS 6 inch maps are needed for good comparison, although I suspect 
many paths will be on 1:25k
  *   There are interesting paths which seem to have disappeared entirely from 
the PRoW network, but noting them does require local knowledge rather than a 
bulk comparison. Here are a couple I noted, which also appear on 1:25k and 
therefore look like prima facie cases for lost paths:
 *   https://openstreetmap.lu/os-ooc-nls.html#16/52.9181/-1.2688/nlsos1 
path N-S from New Farm
 *   https://openstreetmap.lu/os-ooc-nls.html#16/52.9503/-1.2603/nlsos1 
path from Noggins Nook to Swanacar Farm

So broadly in conclusion: it doesn't seem to give more than comparison against 
rowmaps for identifying missing paths for OSM, but it does have potential for 
finding lost paths. For the latter case rather more annotation of information 
would be needed.


Jerry

On 10 May 2018 at 22:50, Rob Nickerson 
<rob.j.nicker...@gmail.com<mailto:rob.j.nicker...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Many thanks. Now shared with Richard, Nick and Jerry. Wont share publicly yet 
as I wouldn't want to disrupt the project comms plan.

@Dave: Oh yes this is definitely not for OSM import. It's node data for linear 
features for a start!! No, instead this can be used to identify possible 
missing paths which should then be investigated using ground survey, aerial 
imagery and GPS (or Strava) data. See it as a helping hand to direct you where 
to look.

Best,
Rob





On Thu, 10 May 2018, 13:54 SK53, 
<sk53@gmail.com<mailto:sk53@gmail.com>> wrote:
Quick correction, as I uploaded heat map to wrong Flickr account. This is the 
proper link: https://flic.kr/p/JSXgyh.

J

On 10 May 2018 1:54 p.m., "SK53" 
<sk53@gmail.com<mailto:sk53@gmail.com>> wrote:
Quick correction, as I uploaded heat map to wrong Flickr account. This is the 
proper link: https://flic.kr/p/JSXgyh.

J

On 10 May 2018 at 13:07, SK53 <sk53@gmail.com<mailto:sk53@gmail.com>> 
wrote:
I just checked on the Vision of Britain site: the core data is currently 
released under CC-BY-NC. I presume OSM-UK have a waiver from these terms.

Undoubtedly there will be rights o

Re: [Talk-GB] Footpaths - search for the missing ones

[SK53]

 atm).
>>
>> A couple of other things to note regarding the GB1900 data:
>>
>>
>>- Many current footpaths will be marked as Bridle Roads (B.R.). It
>>would be useful to add these names to the available data.
>>- footpaths and bridle roads often fall well short of their current
>>entry points because the current right of way will have followed farm
>>tracks and service roads, which in many cases have disappeared.
>>
>> Returning to use of rowmaps I have a recent geojson file of missing paths
>> in the North Midlands (Staffs, Derbys, Notts, Leics & Rutland) up on
>> github: https://github.com/SK53/osm-prow-stats. I intend to add other
>> areas as time permits. Unfortunately I've never got my comparison process
>> to work on PostGIS so I still use QGIS which is a little unwieldy for
>> automation. I process rowmaps data into a fairly standard form in PostGIS
>> before making the comparisons. This <https://flic.kr/p/25DgebX>is a heat
>> map of missing footpaths in the East Midlands area as of Autumn 2017, I
>> compare length of missing paths with total length in a tetrad (2km grid
>> square). It readily shows hotspots of missing paths. This was done to
>> identify suitable places for our 2018 New Year footpath mapping. The
>> National Forest area in SE Derbyshire still has a lot of outstanding
>> mapping to do: it's not too bad as walking country either.
>>
>> Jerry
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 10 May 2018 at 11:34, Nick Whitelegg <nick.whitel...@solent.ac.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I might be potentially interested in developing something with this
>>> data, partly because I already run a site (freemap) which shows OSM maps
>>> for walkers and stores them in a PostGIS database - so it should be an easy
>>> process to filter out the data to find those points which are not close to
>>> an OSM highway. It would also be easy for me to adapt my existing code to
>>> visualise these "FP" points. Presumably they are just points with no
>>> indication of direction of the path? An "FP" label presumably has
>>> orientation so something could possibly be deduced about its course at that
>>> point if orientation was available too.
>>>
>>>
>>> I also already visualise the data so visualising the missing ROWs would
>>> be easily done too.
>>>
>>>
>>> It would be nice to develop features to find nearby locations where
>>> there are lots of these missing paths, e.g. if I am in Southampton, find
>>> the nearest village with 10, 20 (or whatever) missing paths within a 5-mile
>>> radius.
>>>
>>>
>>> Would be nice to have an app too so you can find these footpaths while
>>> you're actually out.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> So potentially interested in this, yes. I don't want to commit 100% but
>>> would be nice to have the data.
>>>
>>>
>>> Nick
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> *From:* Richard Fairhurst <rich...@systemed.net>
>>> *Sent:* 10 May 2018 09:07:49
>>> *To:* talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Talk-GB] Footpaths - search for the missing ones
>>>
>>> Rob Nickerson wrote:
>>> > Basically we have point data of historic footpaths (some 300k points)
>>> and
>>> > I think it would be amazing to compare this to OSM to see if we can
>>> find
>>> > more footpaths to map.
>>>
>>> Very cool. Could you post the data somewhere?
>>>
>>> Richard
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Sent from: http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/Great-Britain-f5372682.html
>>>
>>> ___
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>>>
>>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Footpaths - search for the missing ones

[Rob Nickerson]

ve an app too so you can find these footpaths while
>> you're actually out.
>>
>>
>>
>> So potentially interested in this, yes. I don't want to commit 100% but
>> would be nice to have the data.
>>
>>
>> Nick
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> *From:* Richard Fairhurst <rich...@systemed.net>
>> *Sent:* 10 May 2018 09:07:49
>> *To:* talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
>> *Subject:* Re: [Talk-GB] Footpaths - search for the missing ones
>>
>> Rob Nickerson wrote:
>> > Basically we have point data of historic footpaths (some 300k points)
>> and
>> > I think it would be amazing to compare this to OSM to see if we can
>> find
>> > more footpaths to map.
>>
>> Very cool. Could you post the data somewhere?
>>
>> Richard
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sent from: http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/Great-Britain-f5372682.html
>>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Footpaths - search for the missing ones

[Dave F]

Hi

On 10/05/2018 00:16, Rob Nickerson wrote:

Hi Dave,

Two elements:

- This is GB wide. Prowmaps has a lot now but I think so areas are 
still missing.


True, but there are probably more recent OoC data than c.1900 for the 
few LAs which are missing from PROWMaps.


- Not all footpaths are registered and with a 2026 deadline the race 
is now on to register old footpaths before they are lost forever.


Good, but I see that as a project external to OSM. OSM can only contain 
current PROWs. I'm a little concerned historical "long gone" paths will 
be added.


DaveF.



Thanks,
*Rob*


On Wed, 9 May 2018 at 23:37, Dave F > wrote:


Hi

I'm probably missing something. As we have current data on
prowmaps.co.uk , will using such old data
have any value/accuracy?

DaveF.

On 09/05/2018 21:13, Rob Nickerson wrote:

Hi

Just posted a "challenge" to Loomio for anyone who is interested.
It's a bit beyond me so thought I'd post it here.

Basically we have point data of historic footpaths (some 300k
points) and I think it would be amazing to compare this to OSM to
see if we can find more footpaths to map. Obviously some will be
long gone due to 100 years of urban sprawl, but I'm hopeful we
can still find some missing paths.

https://www.loomio.org/d/pviAOkGR/challenge-footpaths

Thanks,
*Rob*


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Re: [Talk-GB] Footpaths - search for the missing ones

[SK53]

Quick correction, as I uploaded heat map to wrong Flickr account. This is
the proper link: https://flic.kr/p/JSXgyh.

J

On 10 May 2018 at 13:07, SK53 <sk53@gmail.com> wrote:

> I just checked on the Vision of Britain site: the core data is currently
> released under CC-BY-NC. I presume OSM-UK have a waiver from these terms.
>
> Undoubtedly there will be rights of way which have effectively fallen in
> to abeyance. I noted one the other day which was on NPE maps, but no longer
> visible on the ground nor on modern OS maps, nor in the data available from
> rowmaps. Broadly speaking such paths fall outside the ambit of OSM, but
> finding such things is very valuable.
>
> Note that we have other sources as well. As a quick experiment I spent 15
> minutes quickly tracing paths marked on NPE maps for SE Notts and managed
> just over 200 using JOSM. This is of course what I should have done many
> years ago rather than adding them to OSM (hindsight is a wonderful thing).
> The geometry wont be very good, but can be refined using the 1:25 OOC maps.
> Such data can be more useful than the raw names from GB1900, but could be
> used in conjunction. Furthermore with suitable tagging this can be added to
> OHM (I would suggest start_date=1900-01-01 with end_date=1950-12-31 unless
> one knows path is still in use) which makes it a tad easier for sharing
> (although OHM overpass instance is not working atm).
>
> A couple of other things to note regarding the GB1900 data:
>
>
>- Many current footpaths will be marked as Bridle Roads (B.R.). It
>would be useful to add these names to the available data.
>- footpaths and bridle roads often fall well short of their current
>entry points because the current right of way will have followed farm
>tracks and service roads, which in many cases have disappeared.
>
> Returning to use of rowmaps I have a recent geojson file of missing paths
> in the North Midlands (Staffs, Derbys, Notts, Leics & Rutland) up on
> github: https://github.com/SK53/osm-prow-stats. I intend to add other
> areas as time permits. Unfortunately I've never got my comparison process
> to work on PostGIS so I still use QGIS which is a little unwieldy for
> automation. I process rowmaps data into a fairly standard form in PostGIS
> before making the comparisons. This <https://flic.kr/p/25DgebX>is a heat
> map of missing footpaths in the East Midlands area as of Autumn 2017, I
> compare length of missing paths with total length in a tetrad (2km grid
> square). It readily shows hotspots of missing paths. This was done to
> identify suitable places for our 2018 New Year footpath mapping. The
> National Forest area in SE Derbyshire still has a lot of outstanding
> mapping to do: it's not too bad as walking country either.
>
> Jerry
>
>
>
>
> On 10 May 2018 at 11:34, Nick Whitelegg <nick.whitel...@solent.ac.uk>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> I might be potentially interested in developing something with this data,
>> partly because I already run a site (freemap) which shows OSM maps for
>> walkers and stores them in a PostGIS database - so it should be an easy
>> process to filter out the data to find those points which are not close to
>> an OSM highway. It would also be easy for me to adapt my existing code to
>> visualise these "FP" points. Presumably they are just points with no
>> indication of direction of the path? An "FP" label presumably has
>> orientation so something could possibly be deduced about its course at that
>> point if orientation was available too.
>>
>>
>> I also already visualise the data so visualising the missing ROWs would
>> be easily done too.
>>
>>
>> It would be nice to develop features to find nearby locations where there
>> are lots of these missing paths, e.g. if I am in Southampton, find the
>> nearest village with 10, 20 (or whatever) missing paths within a 5-mile
>> radius.
>>
>>
>> Would be nice to have an app too so you can find these footpaths while
>> you're actually out.
>>
>>
>>
>> So potentially interested in this, yes. I don't want to commit 100% but
>> would be nice to have the data.
>>
>>
>> Nick
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> *From:* Richard Fairhurst <rich...@systemed.net>
>> *Sent:* 10 May 2018 09:07:49
>> *To:* talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
>> *Subject:* Re: [Talk-GB] Footpaths - search for the missing ones
>>
>> Rob Nickerson wrote:
>> > Basically we have point data of historic footpaths (some 300k points)
>> and
>> > I think it would be amazing to compare this to OSM to s

Re: [Talk-GB] Footpaths - search for the missing ones

[SK53]

I just checked on the Vision of Britain site: the core data is currently
released under CC-BY-NC. I presume OSM-UK have a waiver from these terms.

Undoubtedly there will be rights of way which have effectively fallen in to
abeyance. I noted one the other day which was on NPE maps, but no longer
visible on the ground nor on modern OS maps, nor in the data available from
rowmaps. Broadly speaking such paths fall outside the ambit of OSM, but
finding such things is very valuable.

Note that we have other sources as well. As a quick experiment I spent 15
minutes quickly tracing paths marked on NPE maps for SE Notts and managed
just over 200 using JOSM. This is of course what I should have done many
years ago rather than adding them to OSM (hindsight is a wonderful thing).
The geometry wont be very good, but can be refined using the 1:25 OOC maps.
Such data can be more useful than the raw names from GB1900, but could be
used in conjunction. Furthermore with suitable tagging this can be added to
OHM (I would suggest start_date=1900-01-01 with end_date=1950-12-31 unless
one knows path is still in use) which makes it a tad easier for sharing
(although OHM overpass instance is not working atm).

A couple of other things to note regarding the GB1900 data:


   - Many current footpaths will be marked as Bridle Roads (B.R.). It would
   be useful to add these names to the available data.
   - footpaths and bridle roads often fall well short of their current
   entry points because the current right of way will have followed farm
   tracks and service roads, which in many cases have disappeared.

Returning to use of rowmaps I have a recent geojson file of missing paths
in the North Midlands (Staffs, Derbys, Notts, Leics & Rutland) up on
github: https://github.com/SK53/osm-prow-stats. I intend to add other areas
as time permits. Unfortunately I've never got my comparison process to work
on PostGIS so I still use QGIS which is a little unwieldy for automation. I
process rowmaps data into a fairly standard form in PostGIS before making
the comparisons. This <https://flic.kr/p/25DgebX>is a heat map of missing
footpaths in the East Midlands area as of Autumn 2017, I compare length of
missing paths with total length in a tetrad (2km grid square). It readily
shows hotspots of missing paths. This was done to identify suitable places
for our 2018 New Year footpath mapping. The National Forest area in SE
Derbyshire still has a lot of outstanding mapping to do: it's not too bad
as walking country either.

Jerry




On 10 May 2018 at 11:34, Nick Whitelegg <nick.whitel...@solent.ac.uk> wrote:

>
> I might be potentially interested in developing something with this data,
> partly because I already run a site (freemap) which shows OSM maps for
> walkers and stores them in a PostGIS database - so it should be an easy
> process to filter out the data to find those points which are not close to
> an OSM highway. It would also be easy for me to adapt my existing code to
> visualise these "FP" points. Presumably they are just points with no
> indication of direction of the path? An "FP" label presumably has
> orientation so something could possibly be deduced about its course at that
> point if orientation was available too.
>
>
> I also already visualise the data so visualising the missing ROWs would be
> easily done too.
>
>
> It would be nice to develop features to find nearby locations where there
> are lots of these missing paths, e.g. if I am in Southampton, find the
> nearest village with 10, 20 (or whatever) missing paths within a 5-mile
> radius.
>
>
> Would be nice to have an app too so you can find these footpaths while
> you're actually out.
>
>
>
> So potentially interested in this, yes. I don't want to commit 100% but
> would be nice to have the data.
>
>
> Nick
>
>
>
> ------
> *From:* Richard Fairhurst <rich...@systemed.net>
> *Sent:* 10 May 2018 09:07:49
> *To:* talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Talk-GB] Footpaths - search for the missing ones
>
> Rob Nickerson wrote:
> > Basically we have point data of historic footpaths (some 300k points)
> and
> > I think it would be amazing to compare this to OSM to see if we can find
> > more footpaths to map.
>
> Very cool. Could you post the data somewhere?
>
> Richard
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/Great-Britain-f5372682.html
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Footpaths - search for the missing ones

[Nick Whitelegg]

I might be potentially interested in developing something with this data, 
partly because I already run a site (freemap) which shows OSM maps for walkers 
and stores them in a PostGIS database - so it should be an easy process to 
filter out the data to find those points which are not close to an OSM highway. 
It would also be easy for me to adapt my existing code to visualise these "FP" 
points. Presumably they are just points with no indication of direction of the 
path? An "FP" label presumably has orientation so something could possibly be 
deduced about its course at that point if orientation was available too.


I also already visualise the data so visualising the missing ROWs would be 
easily done too.


It would be nice to develop features to find nearby locations where there are 
lots of these missing paths, e.g. if I am in Southampton, find the nearest 
village with 10, 20 (or whatever) missing paths within a 5-mile radius.


Would be nice to have an app too so you can find these footpaths while you're 
actually out.



So potentially interested in this, yes. I don't want to commit 100% but would 
be nice to have the data.


Nick




From: Richard Fairhurst <rich...@systemed.net>
Sent: 10 May 2018 09:07:49
To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Footpaths - search for the missing ones

Rob Nickerson wrote:
> Basically we have point data of historic footpaths (some 300k points) and
> I think it would be amazing to compare this to OSM to see if we can find
> more footpaths to map.

Very cool. Could you post the data somewhere?

Richard



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Re: [Talk-GB] Footpaths - search for the missing ones

[Richard Fairhurst]

Rob Nickerson wrote:
> Basically we have point data of historic footpaths (some 300k points) and 
> I think it would be amazing to compare this to OSM to see if we can find 
> more footpaths to map.

Very cool. Could you post the data somewhere?

Richard



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Re: [Talk-GB] Footpaths - search for the missing ones

[Rob Nickerson]

Hi Dave,

Two elements:

- This is GB wide. Prowmaps has a lot now but I think so areas are still
missing.
- Not all footpaths are registered and with a 2026 deadline the race is now
on to register old footpaths before they are lost forever.

Thanks,
*Rob*


On Wed, 9 May 2018 at 23:37, Dave F  wrote:

> Hi
>
> I'm probably missing something. As we have current data on prowmaps.co.uk,
> will using such old data have any value/accuracy?
>
> DaveF.
>
> On 09/05/2018 21:13, Rob Nickerson wrote:
>
> Hi
>
> Just posted a "challenge" to Loomio for anyone who is interested. It's a
> bit beyond me so thought I'd post it here.
>
> Basically we have point data of historic footpaths (some 300k points) and
> I think it would be amazing to compare this to OSM to see if we can find
> more footpaths to map. Obviously some will be long gone due to 100 years of
> urban sprawl, but I'm hopeful we can still find some missing paths.
>
> https://www.loomio.org/d/pviAOkGR/challenge-footpaths
>
> Thanks,
> *Rob*
>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Footpaths - search for the missing ones

[Dave F]

Hi

I'm probably missing something. As we have current data on 
prowmaps.co.uk, will using such old data have any value/accuracy?


DaveF.

On 09/05/2018 21:13, Rob Nickerson wrote:

Hi

Just posted a "challenge" to Loomio for anyone who is interested. It's 
a bit beyond me so thought I'd post it here.


Basically we have point data of historic footpaths (some 300k points) 
and I think it would be amazing to compare this to OSM to see if we 
can find more footpaths to map. Obviously some will be long gone due 
to 100 years of urban sprawl, but I'm hopeful we can still find some 
missing paths.


https://www.loomio.org/d/pviAOkGR/challenge-footpaths

Thanks,
*Rob*


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[Talk-GB] Footpaths - search for the missing ones

[Rob Nickerson]

Hi

Just posted a "challenge" to Loomio for anyone who is interested. It's a
bit beyond me so thought I'd post it here.

Basically we have point data of historic footpaths (some 300k points) and I
think it would be amazing to compare this to OSM to see if we can find more
footpaths to map. Obviously some will be long gone due to 100 years of
urban sprawl, but I'm hopeful we can still find some missing paths.

https://www.loomio.org/d/pviAOkGR/challenge-footpaths

Thanks,
*Rob*
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