Re: [Talk-us] dubious church node

[John F. Eldredge]

On 9/29/2017 9:59 PM, John F. Eldredge wrote:

On 9/29/2017 8:31 PM, Max Erickson wrote:

Yeah, a Google search for "Mill Creek Church nashville" has

http://freepages.history.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~nashvillearchives/millcreek.html 



as an early result. It says the church building has been dismantled
but mentions a cemetery, which still exists nearby the mislocated osm
node:

http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/53498031#map=16/36.1182/-86.7267


Max

___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us


That sounds like a reference to the original Mill Creek Baptist Church 
(there is a current-day church by that name, but it isn't descended 
from the earlier church). I am the person who mapped the Mill Creek 
Baptist Church Graveyard, and am a board member in a nonprofit 
organization, Friends of Mill Creek Baptist Church Graveyard, Inc., 
that maintains the graveyard. The Mill Creek Baptist Church was 
located within the graveyard property, a couple of miles away from 
where this node in question is located. It might possibly have been a 
different church of some other denomination.  Before removing it, I 
will post a question to a Facebook group that discusses local history, 
and see if anyone can tell me if there was ever a church there.



I have now learned more on a local-history Facebook group.  The location 
on Antioch Pike is the original location of the Mill Creek Baptist 
Church congregation that now meets on Wallace Road, about two miles 
away.  This congregation is not descended from the original Mill Creek 
Baptist Church, which was about two miles away in a different direction.


--
John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that.  Hate cannot drive out 
hate; only love can do that." -- Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.


---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus


___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] dubious church node

[Max Erickson]

There's a fair chance that a GNIS location is off by a couple miles. A
little bit more information from GNIS is available by putting the ID
into https://geonames.usgs.gov/pls/gnispublic/

It lists "Mill Creek Baptist Church" as a variant name.

From time to time I come across a GNIS entry that is off by dozens of
miles. I figure these must be typos during the location entry or
something like that, as many of them are located well. In this case I
would assume they only knew the church was in Nashville near Mill
Creek.


Max

___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] dubious church node

[Kevin Kenny]

On Fri, Sep 29, 2017 at 9:33 PM, Mark Bradley 
wrote:

>
> In the course of my mapping in the American Midwest, I have come across
> several small country churches of GNIS origin that no longer exist.  Often
> there will be a nearby cemetery, but the church facility is gone.  I simply
> delete the node.  In one case I know of, the church building was converted
> into a home, so I remapped it accordingly.
>

Of course, if the cemetery is there on the ground, then it should be
mapped. But deleting the node for a demolished church is entirely
appropriate. For a church converted to a private home, consider:

building=detached historic:amenity=place_of_worship historic:name=* etc.

if the building still resembles a church.
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] dubious church node

[Kevin Kenny]

On Fri, Sep 29, 2017 at 8:18 PM, Ed Hillsman  wrote:

> In my mapping in Albuquerque, I have come across a number of GNIS nodes
> tagged as churches or schools, in built-up areas, that I am unable to find
> on the ground anywhere near the coordinates. I’ve researched a few of them
> and found that they did exist at one time or another but have been
> demolished or incorporated into newer facilities. So I’ve added a note to
> these that they are “historic” but that I can’t pin down their location.
> Otherwise, I’ve left them alone, figuring someone with more knowledge of
> local history can figure out where they were located.
>

No knowledge of local history needed. If something isn't there on the
ground any more, then it shouldn't be on the map.

I feel free to delete GNIS stuff for features that no longer exist. There
are cases where I've instead done things like

building=detatched historic:amenity=school

for an old schoolhouse converted to a private home.

Another point is that if you have the outline for something that GNIS shows
as a node, please conflate! I've done that with a lot of buildings and
parks locally - just copy-and-paste the GNIS tags from the node to the
polygon and then delete the node.
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] dubious church node

[John F. Eldredge]

On 9/29/2017 8:31 PM, Max Erickson wrote:

Yeah, a Google search for "Mill Creek Church nashville" has

http://freepages.history.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~nashvillearchives/millcreek.html

as an early result. It says the church building has been dismantled
but mentions a cemetery, which still exists nearby the mislocated osm
node:

http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/53498031#map=16/36.1182/-86.7267


Max

___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us


That sounds like a reference to the original Mill Creek Baptist Church 
(there is a current-day church by that name, but it isn't descended from 
the earlier church). I am the person who mapped the Mill Creek Baptist 
Church Graveyard, and am a board member in a nonprofit organization, 
Friends of Mill Creek Baptist Church Graveyard, Inc., that maintains the 
graveyard. The Mill Creek Baptist Church was located within the 
graveyard property, a couple of miles away from where this node in 
question is located. It might possibly have been a different church of 
some other denomination.  Before removing it, I will post a question to 
a Facebook group that discusses local history, and see if anyone can 
tell me if there was ever a church there.



--
John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that.  Hate cannot drive out 
hate; only love can do that." -- Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.


---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus


___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] dubious church node

[Mark Bradley]

> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2017 18:26:49 -0500
> From: "John F. Eldredge" 
> To: OpenStreetMap Talk-US Mailing List 
> Subject: [Talk-us] dubious church node
> Message-ID: 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
> 
> OSM Item 356845407 is a node supposedly marking the location of a church named
> "Mill Creek Church", at coordinates 36.0972810, -86.7027754
> . The node 
> history
> shows two changesets making edits to the node, but no changeset for the 
> creation of
> the node. It has these tags:
> 
> amenity
>   place_of_worship
>  US>
> 
> ele 145
> gnis:county_id037
> gnis:created  05/19/1980
> gnis:feature_id
> 
>   1306749
> gnis:state_id 47
> name   Mill
> Creek Church
> religion 
>   christian
> 
> 
> I became curious about this, as aerial photos in Google Earth do not show a 
> church
> there. I drove to these coordinates, and determined that they are for a 
> loading dock
> on the back of an industrial warehouse.
> There are no signs indicating that any congregation meets there; the warehouse
> appears to be in active commercial use. Should I remove this node? -- John F. 
> Eldredge
> -- j...@jfeldredge.com "Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do 
> that.
> Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." -- Dr. Martin Luther 
> King, Jr.


In the course of my mapping in the American Midwest, I have come across several 
small country churches of GNIS origin that no longer exist.  Often there will 
be a nearby cemetery, but the church facility is gone.  I simply delete the 
node.  In one case I know of, the church building was converted into a home, so 
I remapped it accordingly.

Mark


___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] dubious church node

[Max Erickson]

Yeah, a Google search for "Mill Creek Church nashville" has

http://freepages.history.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~nashvillearchives/millcreek.html

as an early result. It says the church building has been dismantled
but mentions a cemetery, which still exists nearby the mislocated osm
node:

http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/53498031#map=16/36.1182/-86.7267


Max

___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] dubious church node

[Ed Hillsman]

In my mapping in Albuquerque, I have come across a number of GNIS nodes tagged 
as churches or schools, in built-up areas, that I am unable to find on the 
ground anywhere near the coordinates. I’ve researched a few of them and found 
that they did exist at one time or another but have been demolished or 
incorporated into newer facilities. So I’ve added a note to these that they are 
“historic” but that I can’t pin down their location. Otherwise, I’ve left them 
alone, figuring someone with more knowledge of local history can figure out 
where they were located.

Ed Hillsman


> On Sep 29, 2017, at 5:26 PM, John F. Eldredge  wrote:
> 
> OSM Item 356845407 is a node supposedly marking the location of a church 
> named "Mill Creek Church", at coordinates 36.0972810, -86.7027754 
> . The node 
> history shows two changesets making edits to the node, but no changeset for 
> the creation of the node. It has these tags:
> 
> amenity
>   place_of_worship 
> 
>  
> ele 145
> gnis:county_id037
> gnis:created  05/19/1980
> gnis:feature_id 
>   
> 1306749
> gnis:state_id 47
> name   Mill 
> Creek Church
> religion   
> christian 
> 
> 
> I became curious about this, as aerial photos in Google Earth do not show a 
> church there. I drove to these coordinates, and determined that they are for 
> a loading dock on the back of an industrial warehouse. There are no signs 
> indicating that any congregation meets there; the warehouse appears to be in 
> active commercial use. Should I remove this node? -- John F. Eldredge -- 
> j...@jfeldredge.com "Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do 
> that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." -- Dr. Martin 
> Luther King, Jr.
> 
> 
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> 
> 
> ___
> Talk-us mailing list
> Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us


___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] dubious church node

[Dave Swarthout]

Glad you mentioned that GNIS import, Ian.

This isn't a pressing issue but I've been doing considerable mapping in
Alaska and encounter GNIS features constantly. Many of them are nodes and
refer to mines, usually abandoned mines, and contain tagging that JOSM
complains about, for example, using landuse=quarry on a node. Sometimes I
delete that tag and add man_made=mineshaft or similar tagging but it's
often not clear if the node is in the proper location. The newer,
high-resolution imagery will often suggest a more likely spot for the node,
and sometimes I'll move the node there, but usually it isn't obvious. There
are also duplicate nodes, that is, mines having the same name but in a
slightly different position and carrying a different GNIS reference number.

Can you provide some guidance about the accuracy of the positions, the
duplication, and perhaps weigh in on possible tagging scenarios?

Thanks,
Dave



On Sat, Sep 30, 2017 at 6:43 AM, Martijn van Exel  wrote:

> If you are interested in cleaning up some of the GNIS imported features in
> a more structured manner, we can create a MapRoulette challenge. In fact,
> there is one already that we can model more of them after. Give it a try:
> http://maproulette.org/map/2774
> Martijn
>
> On Sep 29, 2017, at 5:33 PM, Ian Dees  wrote:
>
> The history of the node shows that I created it 8 years ago:
>
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/356845407/history
>
> The gnis tags indicate that it probably came in from my (somewhat
> misguided) GNIS import back then. If there's no recent information to
> corroborate the node then feel free to delete it.
>
> On Sep 29, 2017 18:28, "John F. Eldredge"  wrote:
>
>> OSM Item 356845407 is a node supposedly marking the location of a church
>> named "Mill Creek Church", at coordinates 36.0972810, -86.7027754 <
>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/36.0972810/-86.7027754>. The node
>> history shows two changesets making edits to the node, but no changeset for
>> the creation of the node. It has these tags:
>>
>> amenity
>> place_of_worship > /wiki/Tag:amenity=place%20of%20worship?uselang=en-US>
>> ele   145
>> gnis:county_id  037
>> gnis:created05/19/1980
>> gnis:feature_id > /wiki/Key:gnis:feature%20id?uselang=en-US>1306749
>> gnis:state_id   47
>> name 
>> Mill Creek Church
>> religion 
>>   christian > /wiki/Tag:religion=christian?uselang=en-US>
>>
>> I became curious about this, as aerial photos in Google Earth do not show
>> a church there. I drove to these coordinates, and determined that they are
>> for a loading dock on the back of an industrial warehouse. There are no
>> signs indicating that any congregation meets there; the warehouse appears
>> to be in active commercial use. Should I remove this node? -- John F.
>> Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com "Darkness cannot drive out darkness;
>> only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that."
>> -- Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
>>
>>
>> ---
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Talk-us mailing list
>> Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>>
> ___
> Talk-us mailing list
> Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>
>
>
> ___
> Talk-us mailing list
> Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>
>


-- 
Dave Swarthout
Homer, Alaska
Chiang Mai, Thailand
Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] dubious church node

[Martijn van Exel]

If you are interested in cleaning up some of the GNIS imported features in a 
more structured manner, we can create a MapRoulette challenge. In fact, there 
is one already that we can model more of them after. Give it a try: 
http://maproulette.org/map/2774 
Martijn

> On Sep 29, 2017, at 5:33 PM, Ian Dees  wrote:
> 
> The history of the node shows that I created it 8 years ago:
> 
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/356845407/history 
> 
> 
> The gnis tags indicate that it probably came in from my (somewhat misguided) 
> GNIS import back then. If there's no recent information to corroborate the 
> node then feel free to delete it. 
> 
> On Sep 29, 2017 18:28, "John F. Eldredge"  > wrote:
> OSM Item 356845407 is a node supposedly marking the location of a church 
> named "Mill Creek Church", at coordinates 36.0972810, -86.7027754 
>  >. The node 
> history shows two changesets making edits to the node, but no changeset for 
> the creation of the node. It has these tags:
> 
> amenity
> place_of_worship 
>   
> >
>  
> ele  >  145
> gnis:county_id  037
> gnis:created05/19/1980
> gnis:feature_id 
>  > 
>1306749
> gnis:state_id   47
> name  >Mill 
> Creek Church
> religion  >
> christian 
>  >
> 
> I became curious about this, as aerial photos in Google Earth do not show a 
> church there. I drove to these coordinates, and determined that they are for 
> a loading dock on the back of an industrial warehouse. There are no signs 
> indicating that any congregation meets there; the warehouse appears to be in 
> active commercial use. Should I remove this node? -- John F. Eldredge -- 
> j...@jfeldredge.com  "Darkness cannot drive out 
> darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can 
> do that." -- Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
> 
> 
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus 
> 
> 
> ___
> Talk-us mailing list
> Talk-us@openstreetmap.org 
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us 
> 
> ___
> Talk-us mailing list
> Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] dubious church node

[Ian Dees]

The history of the node shows that I created it 8 years ago:

http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/356845407/history

The gnis tags indicate that it probably came in from my (somewhat
misguided) GNIS import back then. If there's no recent information to
corroborate the node then feel free to delete it.

On Sep 29, 2017 18:28, "John F. Eldredge"  wrote:

> OSM Item 356845407 is a node supposedly marking the location of a church
> named "Mill Creek Church", at coordinates 36.0972810, -86.7027754 <
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/36.0972810/-86.7027754>. The node
> history shows two changesets making edits to the node, but no changeset for
> the creation of the node. It has these tags:
>
> amenity
> place_of_worship  /wiki/Tag:amenity=place%20of%20worship?uselang=en-US>
> ele   145
> gnis:county_id  037
> gnis:created05/19/1980
> gnis:feature_id  uselang=en-US>1306749
> gnis:state_id   47
> name 
> Mill Creek Church
> religion 
>   christian  /wiki/Tag:religion=christian?uselang=en-US>
>
> I became curious about this, as aerial photos in Google Earth do not show
> a church there. I drove to these coordinates, and determined that they are
> for a loading dock on the back of an industrial warehouse. There are no
> signs indicating that any congregation meets there; the warehouse appears
> to be in active commercial use. Should I remove this node? -- John F.
> Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com "Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only
> light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." --
> Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
>
> ___
> Talk-us mailing list
> Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

[Talk-us] dubious church node

[John F. Eldredge]

OSM Item 356845407 is a node supposedly marking the location of a church 
named "Mill Creek Church", at coordinates 36.0972810, -86.7027754 
. The node 
history shows two changesets making edits to the node, but no changeset 
for the creation of the node. It has these tags:


amenity
	place_of_worship 
 


ele 145
gnis:county_id  037
gnis:created05/19/1980
gnis:feature_id 
 
	1306749

gnis:state_id   47
name  	Mill 
Creek Church
religion  
	christian 



I became curious about this, as aerial photos in Google Earth do not 
show a church there. I drove to these coordinates, and determined that 
they are for a loading dock on the back of an industrial warehouse. 
There are no signs indicating that any congregation meets there; the 
warehouse appears to be in active commercial use. Should I remove this 
node? -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com "Darkness cannot drive 
out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only 
love can do that." -- Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.



---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus


___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us