Re: [Tango-L] Lead and follow

2008-10-12 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
--- On Sun, 10/12/08, Tom Stermitz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Leading another person well is a very deep experience, like a martial arts. > Doing it yourself is extremely enlightening. > > That's the main benefit. There are a number of other > reasons. For example > - The follower learns te

Re: [Tango-L] Lead and follow

2008-10-10 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
--- On Fri, 10/10/08, Mario <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I don't get it...why is the guy always the > 'heavy'? > Are men always the 'stupid' one? Always who > 'needs improvement'? > Always too thick to 'understand' that they should > learn to dance in the woman's shoes, too? > This just sound

Re: [Tango-L] Lead and follow

2008-10-10 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
--- On Thu, 10/9/08, Lois Donnay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > How do you get leaders to work on following? Maybe tricking them is the way to go. Perhaps having the men do a combination that has them doing variations on the molinete as leaders. Or perhaps they are the ones doing the backward o

Re: [Tango-L] Tango in the Spring - festival report

2008-10-09 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
--- On Wed, 10/8/08, Myk Dowling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > To be honest, if it was just social dancing, I'd > be less likely to attend. > > Can I ask why? The price of gas has made traveling a lot less attractive, so we don't even go to DC anymore just to dance socially, either. But if

Re: [Tango-L] Tango in the Spring - festival report

2008-10-07 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
To Myk Dowling's question, the Ann Arbor tango group initially started May Madness as just social dancing and a BBQ, but workshops were eventually added on. This is an event that people will drive from at least 4 hours out, so perhaps they figured that adding workshops will make it more worthw

Re: [Tango-L] Social rejection

2008-09-30 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
--- On Mon, 9/29/08, Nina Pesochinsky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The important thing to remember is that we do not always know > what might trigger the other person. You're right, Nina, and although I appreciate your sensitivity toward others, I do not espouse taking responsibility for anoth

Re: [Tango-L] Lead an invitation that can be ignored or faught

2008-09-28 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
--- On Wed, 9/24/08, Jack Dylan wrote: "Wow, some of you guys are tough. It seems that Sean will not only not dance with women who are not good dancers but with women who agree to dance with men who are not good dancers." Hi Jack, I don't mean to be tough, punative, or to prevent other guys f

Re: [Tango-L] Tergiversar = to distort, twist

2008-09-26 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
--- On Fri, 9/26/08, David <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >From there, we had some discussion on what an > invitation is. At one point I was thinking that some might > be happier if the terms Leader and Follower were changed to > Inviter and Decider (as some appear to have strong > opposition t

Re: [Tango-L] Tergiversar = to distort, twist

2008-09-25 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
Nina, I always enjoy your posts, but please remember that you're free to use your delete key. --- On Thu, 9/25/08, David Thorn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I don't know how you know my regular partner's > skill level. > I mentioned in a prior post that I can lead with > clarity(?), and she w

Re: [Tango-L] Tergiversar = to distort, twist

2008-09-25 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
--- On Thu, 9/25/08, David Thorn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Spose that she sees that the floor behind me is clear (we DO NOT run into people or even threaten to!!!) and wants to play a little. She might > over-rotate, stepping into me, and compelling my receiving > step to actually be counter

[Tango-L] The balancing act

2008-09-25 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
Some of the recent discussion has in some ways suggested that men ought to pander to women. Puh-lease... I’m going on record of saying that it is okay for men to be "demanding" of women in the same way that women are "demanding" of men. The latter is more prevalent than the former. In fact,

Re: [Tango-L] Lead an invitation that can be ignored or faught

2008-09-24 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
--- On Tue, 9/23/08, Alexis Cousein <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Whether "resist" is an appropriate word is a matter of semantics. And I > disagree that it's totally unkosher for her to "force room" or "take over", > at least if you understand the context (i.e. don't take the words > as if they

Re: [Tango-L] Lead an invitation that can be ignored or faught

2008-09-23 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
--- On Tue, 9/23/08, Anne wrote: "- but the resistance is more often the ONLY response to a poor lead...the only physical means to let the leader know he is inviting a poor lead that is impossible to follow..." Sean here. 1. Hi Anne, would you reconsider that position? I think "ONLY" is a limi

Re: [Tango-L] Lead an invitation that can be ignored or faught

2008-09-23 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
--- On Tue, 9/23/08, Alexis Cousein <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > But given a lead is an invitation, she can certainly > *resist* a lead, i.e. change the timing. She can even take over the lead > momentarily (which is no problem with me, but bruises the ego of some other > leaders) . Given that t

Re: [Tango-L] "El hombre marca y la mujer sigue"

2008-09-17 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
--- On Wed, 9/17/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (Sean: does it grant me wisdom and remove intelligence? ; ) Hi Adriana, I don't think the 2 are related. So it should be possible to gain wisdom over the course of ones life, without losing any intelligence. ; ) Perhaps I am using the terms too sim

Re: [Tango-L] Lead an invitation that can be ignored or fought

2008-09-17 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
--- On Tue, 9/16/08, Mario <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >I dare say that, in North America, who leads and who > follows will soon have to be negotiated...hence, the > confusion. Certainly expecting a woman to follow everything > you lead, without negotiation first, would be terribly > demandin

Re: [Tango-L] Lead an invitation that can be ignored or fought

2008-09-17 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
Sean here. If you were to search through the archives, you would find that I once thought like Mario does. With only 4 or 5 years experience, I was barely a tango beginner... Mario, I know you are excited and enthusiastic about your new hobby, but please, aquire a decade or 2 of experience befo

Re: [Tango-L] How to initiate lean

2008-09-13 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
While suspension is one way to signal the woman not to step forward, I prefer a technique in which the man steps back but leaves the his chest more-or-less where it was so that the woman feels his support. Essentially, he gives her his weight so that they have a shared axis. If the woman feels

[Tango-L] That arm thing

2008-09-11 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
Hi all, Trini, here. Since no woman has yet responded on this subject, I'll give my two cents worth. Personally, I dislike having my arm being bounced up and down in milongas or tango. It's tiring, it's uncomfortable, it distracts from the dance. I'm not some kind of wind-up toy. There may

Re: [Tango-L] Video and Criticism

2008-09-11 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
Hola Sergio, Sean again. I appreciate the efforts you have made for more than a decade to preserve the civility of this list, and I have a great deal of respect for the opinions you express here. But I must respectfully disagree with you regarding the criticism of videos presented to the list.

Re: [Tango-L] Milonga-Candombera, Canyenguero etc.

2008-09-10 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
Sean Here, Your criticism is spot on Huck. But how to defend your point? How would someone who has never experienced sublimation understand what is missing when they "groove"? IMHO, you have a better chance of explaining color to a blind man. Sean PATangoS - Pittsburgh Argentine Tango Society

Re: [Tango-L] Volcada (instructional video)

2008-09-05 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
Jean-Pierre, Thanks for sharing your video, however, it looks to me as if your partner allows her back to collapse during the carpa instead of maintaining a strong core. I think your video needs more information on that aspect and on what you mean by "support" so that the women are protected.

Re: [Tango-L] Feedback Requested on Free Tango Classes & Milongas

2008-09-04 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
How about a fee that covers the entire semester instead of just an event? So if they pay for a milonga, they are part of the club for the rest of the semester? Maybe 2 different levels of club participation based on what they can afford. If they see themselves as part of a club, rather than j

Re: [Tango-L] some DJ questions (previously Melina?s_DJing_Primer)

2008-08-19 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
Hi Victor, I agree with Andreas' comments. If you're just starting out, I'd suggest sticking with the formula of sandwiching two weaker pieces between the two strongest pieces. Also, watch that the tempo goes consistently from slower to faster or faster to slower. The latter is done in the c

Re: [Tango-L] Those vulgar "belly bumpers"

2008-08-08 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
Your post is insightful, Larry. The video also takes place in a large hall with plenty of room. In a more crowded room, Puppy might dance quite differently, without the space between couples. Geraldine's parents (who influenced Geraldine) are from Villa Urquiza, I think. Anyone know where Pu

Re: [Tango-L] Social Tango + Puppy Castello on "style"

2008-08-07 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
--- On Wed, 8/6/08, Nina Pesochinsky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > You can read the archives of the tango-l. There is a story > in detail about how Susana Miller invented the term > "milonguero" when she began teaching in the early 1990s. The reason that > Puppy and others didn't say that they

Re: [Tango-L] Social Tango

2008-08-06 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
--- On Wed, 8/6/08, Dubravko Kakarigi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The way I understand what Trini is talking about is that > every dancer eventually (the sooner the better) finds his or > her own body which then, to a large extent, forms the basis > for his or her own style -- unique in time and

Re: [Tango-L] Social Tango

2008-08-06 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
--- On Tue, 8/5/08, Joe Grohens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > So, let's say that my way of dancing can be classified > according to a named type. > > What will you base it on? > > - Instructional pedigree? > - Dance features that suggest a family resemblance? > - The dance circles I associate with

Re: [Tango-L] Social Tango

2008-08-05 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
Joe, While I appreciate many of your points in the first part of your post, I have a differing opinion on the latter half. You may not be thinking that you dance a style, but in reality you do dance a style, so it's fair for people to ask or to classify what you do. Although dance styles are

Re: [Tango-L] Leading with arm and hands & teaching

2008-08-01 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
Since I can only post 1 more time today, I'll have to kill 2 birds with 1 stone: On Teaching: My experience mirrors that of Lois and my preferred teaching style starts beginners off in close-embrace, even though I used to teach in open-embrace. However, there are too many factors in the teachi

Re: [Tango-L] Leading with hands

2008-08-01 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
Let's be more specific. It's not the use of the hands that's the problem. It's the TIMING. It's when the man is impatient and doesn't respect my timing that I feel that he's pushing or pulling me, even if he is trying not to use his hands. Imagine a hoola-hoop being placed around the woman,

Re: [Tango-L] new video

2008-07-30 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
I think a lot of the dance is missing because you don't see the feet, where most of the action is. Most of the video is of the upper body. We also don't see how the woman ornaments the dance. For all we know, he might have been giving her time to play musically, which might give it more of a

Re: [Tango-L] Nuevo lead and follow and repressed teaching

2008-07-29 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
--- On Mon, 7/28/08, steve pastor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: steve pastor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Nuevo lead and follow and repressed teaching > To: "Tango-L" > Date: Monday, July 28, 2008, 7:24 PM > "My point is that when women have the bodywork and > technique, then

Re: [Tango-L] Nuevo lead and follow and repressed teaching

2008-07-28 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
de Pittsburgh --- On Mon, 7/28/08, Bruce Stephens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: Bruce Stephens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Nuevo lead and follow and repressed teaching > To: "Tango-L" > Date: Monday, July 28, 2008, 1:15 PM > "Trini y

Re: [Tango-L] Nuevo lead and follow and repressed teaching

2008-07-28 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
--- On Mon, 7/28/08, Jack Dylan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I know exactly what you're talking about and maybe > I'm too cynical but I don't think the guys who dance with women who don't > take classes are looking for feedback on their tango. I suspect their motives > lie elsewhere. o_O Oh, n

Re: [Tango-L] Nuevo lead and follow and repressed teaching

2008-07-27 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
--- On Sun, 7/27/08, Jack Dylan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: Jack Dylan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Nuevo lead and follow and repressed teaching > To: "Tango-L" > Date: Sunday, July 27, 2008, 2:28 PM > Trini, > Very true. When a lady is tipped into a Vocada, she needs > to

Re: [Tango-L] Nuevo lead and follow and repressed teaching

2008-07-27 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
>From the woman's perspective, I agree with David. One of the reasons women >have trouble with volcadas and colgadas is a lack of a good core. Having a >good core is something most women have to work at moreso than men. I used to think like Jack - that the woman needed to know the figure. But

Re: [Tango-L] How do yoou know it is tango

2008-07-23 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
--- On Tue, 7/22/08, Jack Dylan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Pupi Castello was correct and I think everyone who learns > tango discovers this for himself. > Which I suspect is why many people enjoy Nuevo. No need > to worry about that pesky walk :-) > Jack Well, I enjoy Nuevo because it's jus

Re: [Tango-L] Dancing socially to Piazzolla

2008-07-23 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
> But I think that a problem with a lot of today's tango > groups is that they don't have any idea what it means to play for > dancing. I think the problem of musicians not having an idea of what it is like to play for dancers is less and less of an issue every year. I have not really encounte

Re: [Tango-L] Posing in tango

2008-06-09 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
--- On Mon, 6/9/08, Deby Novitz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: Deby Novitz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: [Tango-L] Posing in tango > To: tango-l@mit.edu, "Mario" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: Monday, June 9, 2008, 2:17 PM > Let's see if this post makes the list. I have been > censored on and

Re: [Tango-L] Tips for Followers?

2008-05-30 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
--- "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Before I went I scanned the last couple of years of > TANGO-L archives for pointers on following, since I went > to learn how to follow. I found enough on leading to > fill a doctoral dissertation but almost nothing on > following - unless you

Re: [Tango-L] Ladies Leading

2008-05-06 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
--- Dubravko Kakarigi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: So, I suppose the bottom > line for me is that tango dance is about beauty and ways > to discover, create, and share beauty. That's a nice way of looking at it. Aside from dancing with my husband, the tandas I look forward to the most are the on

Re: [Tango-L] Ladies Leading

2008-05-06 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
So if tango is supposed to be about the emotional connection which can only be felt between partners, can somebody tell me why people are looking for videos to measure this quality? The man-woman thing can also be taken too far in these discussions. I mean, that's like saying that every man wants

Re: [Tango-L] community - need insight

2008-05-05 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
Hi Jackie, If I were organizer A, I'd do one heck of a job promoting my instructors for the workshop. But I also wouldn't go overboard and give people the feeling that their asking to choose loyalties (it doesn't do anyone any good if the attendees don't feel good about their choices). Not every

Re: [Tango-L] Qualifying Tango Instructors.

2008-05-01 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
--- Floyd Baker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > As for the actual judging? .. Groups comprised of people who are *friendly* to the particular type or style of Tango that's in the applicant's demo cd's. Have folks paid attention to how a student introduces a teacher or how a teacher introduces/

Re: [Tango-L] Communities

2008-04-30 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
--- Tom Stermitz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > People do all kinds of wierd, anxious, even self-destructive things when they don't trust their own competence. Really, if you are all that good, than you are going to succeed, even if "they" get in your way. I've always thought that many of the issu

Re: [Tango-L] Weight of words

2008-04-29 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
Floyd, Trini, here. I understand where you're coming from. We've swallowed a lot of losses ourselves when we first started our group. And I don't think anyone will truly know how much work an organizer does, except another organizer. You should be quite proud of the fact that you've created en

Re: [Tango-L] Weight of words

2008-04-28 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
--- Floyd Baker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I spent nearly ten years in a Tango wasteland studying what was behind it all... Without (for the most part) being able to dance it myself. But that did not stop the understand of it. I concentrated on the origins and concepts. How and why it came abou

[Tango-L] Business practices (was Speak up if you are uncomfortable - policies)

2008-04-27 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
--- "Chris, UK" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Trini wrote: > > In a lot of small communities, tango gets started > through people pooling their resources to form non-profits. Officers are often elected as a legal requirement to share a balance of power. That is how things are often done in the St

Re: [Tango-L] weight change

2008-04-27 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
Somewhere along the line, the point of my original post was lost, or maybe I never made it. So here it is, as plain and succinct as I can state it: Goal: The man changes weight without changing the woman's weight. Method 1: The man hides his weight change. (Impossible if the woman is competent.)

[Tango-L] Community building

2008-04-27 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
--- "Chris, UK" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > That is nonsense. A good leader needs only the girl to > stay on his chest. Sean here. 99% of what is written on this list is nonsense. Now I remember why I quit writing. But Chris did have some good observations about communities. As he pointed out

Re: [Tango-L] "Hiding" weight changes

2008-04-26 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
--- robin tara <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Yesterday I was assisting Reuben Aybar, here in Buenos Aires, and we taught a man to "change weight" without his partner feeling it, in about 5 minutes. The words "weight change" is misleading though. What he learned was how to change feet without his part

Re: [Tango-L] gender imbalance

2008-04-26 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
Sean here, with one man's perspective: --- Astrid wrote: "so on a bad day, the women in reality actually outnumber the danceable men by 8 or 10:1." Come on Astrid, it's not fair and highly provacative to compare the total number of women to the number of "danceable" men. In my experience, if you

[Tango-L] "Hiding" weight changes

2008-04-26 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
--- Keith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I've always believed that the man should change weight so that the lady doesn't even feel it. If she does feel it, she should follow it unless the man prevents that in some way, eg. 'suspension'. --- Hi Keith, Sean here. Personally, I would be amazed by any m

Re: [Tango-L] Speak up if you are uncomfortable - policies

2008-04-25 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
Chris, I think we have a different idea about community. You are also confusing a common business structure of an enterprise with the idea of community. In a lot of small communities, tango gets started through people pooling their resources to form non-profits. Officers are often elected as a

Re: [Tango-L] Kinisthetic sense - reply to Ron

2008-04-21 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
--- Tango Society of Central Illinois <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Each dancer needs to be comfortable with their movements. > Different anatomical characteristics, including injury, will make a 'one size fits all' approach inapplicable. Dancers who are made to feel uncomfortable in their bodies

Re: [Tango-L] Speak up if you are uncomfortable - policies

2008-04-20 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
--- "Chris, UK" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > if one is to continue to be a community leader, then > one must be willing to make decisions, take responsibility, and lead. ... you either have the trust of your community or you don't. > > One has to wonder as to the unique factors of third world

Re: [Tango-L] Speak up if you are uncomfortable - policies

2008-04-18 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
Hi folks, Now that I have more time, I'd thought I'd share my policy for dealing with this sensitive issue. Perhaps it will help others who need to deal with people exhibiting undesirable behavior. The bottom line for me is this: - Does someone's repeated actions create an unhealthy learning env

Re: [Tango-L] Surplus Tanguera - Not (reply to Skip's 1st)

2008-04-17 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
--- Jake Spatz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: . > > What's puzzling me is why do the women put up with this > behavior? Do they like the attention, and don't find it > rude, or are they too polite, or timid, to speak up if > they don't like it? Or what? > > > I've asked a few women about this in th

Re: [Tango-L] Speak up if you're uncomfortable

2008-04-11 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
--- Darlene Robertson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Sometimes tango dancers overstep their bounds... > sometimes it's exacerbated because the situation involves > an INSTRUCTOR, which damages the reputation of the entire > community. Darlene, While I completely understand where you're coming

Re: [Tango-L] snarky comments on Atlanta demo

2008-04-10 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
--- Keith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > ... I was talking about students being inspired and, for that, 'fine dancing' just won't do. What is the purpose of a demonstration at a Tango Festival, if not to inspire the > participants? I've put finger on what bothered me about the video. And it wasn

Re: [Tango-L] snarky comments on Atlanta demo

2008-04-09 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
--- Joe Grohens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Re: Trini on the "close embrace" movement. > > - Is the technique used by these couples really what > promoters mean > when they say "close embrace"? What is meant then by > "open embrace"? In my mind, close-embrace means no separation between the

Re: [Tango-L] Atlanta Tango Festival Video

2008-04-09 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
--- Keith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: demonstrations - other than to send everyone > to sleep :-). I'm not saying they > should be dancing choreographed show routines but at > least they should be of a high level > of excellence and difficulty to motivate and inspire > their students and others

Re: [Tango-L] on open-embrace teaching (was something on inventing steps)

2008-04-05 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
--- Mario <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Trini, >The last part of your email/post; > "I know they'll be folks on their no-pattern, > just-dancing > blah blah blah kick, but I just figure their tango is as > limited as their thought processes. I'd rather not see > that happen with you." >

Re: [Tango-L] on open-embrace teaching (was something on inventing steps)

2008-04-05 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
--- Mario <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > the last class I took in December was billed as a class > to learn; floor navigation, musicality and connectivityit cost me $100 and the teacher's idea of musicality was to call out the steps during a song and everyone perform them basic 8, ocho cortad

Re: [Tango-L] The subject that never dies.

2008-04-04 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
--- "Chris, UK" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > That attention finds typically the complete novice > hereabouts doesn't make > the cross. This is no problem - she and I make whatever > steps do come to us. That's fine, but don't just don't call it the cross when it isn't. Otherwise, it's disrepec

Re: [Tango-L] The subject that never dies.

2008-04-03 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
Chris, next time, pay attention to what a completely novice woman actually does and you'll see for yourself. Personally, I think it's better to learn from real life experiences than assumptions. Oh, and don't say a word to her, just lead her. Trini de Pittsburgh --- "Chris, UK" <[EMAIL PROTECT

Re: [Tango-L] On similes and such like...

2008-04-02 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
--- Floyd Baker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > One complains if it's said leaders 'free' them... and > one complains if it's said leaders 'restrict' them. Where's the logic...??We need to get over attitudes I think. Sounds to me as if it's about using words correctly in an appropriate cont

Re: [Tango-L] The subject that never dies.

2008-04-02 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
--- Keith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > IMO, the first thing every lady need to learn is how to > make a connection with the man and how to follow. But is that enough? Well it is if the lady is satisfied to just make the steps and make the 'moves'. On the other hand, > if she wants to dance in a

[Tango-L] On Buffalo

2008-03-31 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
Since there have been some comments about the Buffalo tango scene, I thought I'd offer my perspective as an outside observer. I just got back from teaching there and met quite a few of the tango community. I found Buffalo to be a young and promising community and I met a couple of good organizers

Re: [Tango-L] ..where did the balance go?

2008-03-28 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
Hi Mario, One of the differences in milonga is that the rhythm is constantly telling the woman to move. In fact, one could say that the woman is always prepared to move in milonga at every beat. So it's not that she's more balanced in milonga as it is that she's always prepared to move. It soun

Re: [Tango-L] Toe First or Heel First?

2008-03-28 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
Yes, I agree completely with you, Martin. I find that not using the knee is the most common fault of people who try to learn toe-first. And there's more than just the knee. There's also the lowering of the hip, which is discussed in Steve's articles as pelvic tilt (great articles, Steve!). If y

Re: [Tango-L] the Contra Body movements on YouTube

2008-03-22 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
Hi Mario, If you've found these videos helpful to you, that's great. Personally, I thought he tended to move as a block and did not spiral his spine enough to show good contrabody. Perhaps it's just the way the camera shot it. Not being a big YouTube viewer, I'm sorry I couldn't find anything c

Re: [Tango-L] Sigs... Was: Finnish Tandas

2008-03-22 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
Personally, I've found Barbra's sig to be warm and informative. Tango needs more people like that. Trini de Pittsburgh P.S. Anyone tried promoting tango on Facebook or MySpace, yet? If so, how's it working out? --- Floyd Baker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Another point can be made. The sig

Re: [Tango-L] There is only tango...

2008-03-21 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
But Keith, there has been a teacher from the States in Hong Kong for years! So don't lump all U.S. teachers together. Trini de Pittsburgh --- Keith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Ron, > > I've only danced Tango in Buenos Aires and Hong Kong but > we have had > many foreign visitors to our milo

Re: [Tango-L] followers expressiveness

2008-03-21 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
Hi Jackie, That's something we've been trying to encourage here. One barrier to expressiveness is not knowing the music. I've noticed around here that generally, women do not tend to study the music as much as the men. Around here, at least, it's the men who work harder at knowing the music. P

Re: [Tango-L] space in close embrace

2008-03-13 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
--- "Chris, UK" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > she doesn't extend the leg from the hip. she starts > under the rib cage. > > Girls, unless you too have had your hip joints surgically > raised by 20cm... > > ...keep in mind that region is employed equally by the > standing leg, > giving you gro

Re: [Tango-L] bad Nuevo and the future

2008-03-01 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
--- Heather Whitehead <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The source of Nuevo's inferiority is that it is a > movement based Movement. It is motivated by the biomechanic possibilities. Sorry, but salon tango or any other tango has also been motivated by biomechanic possibilities. I don't think that t

Re: [Tango-L] Foxtrot to Tango, how do I do it?

2008-02-28 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Hello Mario, > I never heard of Robert Hauk before I read your posts. So > I checked him out > on YouTube. What do you find attractive in his dancing? Videos don't do justice to Alicia Pons, either. I think there are some people who just appear better in person t

Re: [Tango-L] women as leader

2008-02-28 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
Keith: I can see your point about women not dancing the man's role the same way as a man, and perhaps that's a limitation Dyane needs to know. However, she stated that she wanted to learn tango as a leader because she saw it as an opportunity to improve her dancing. Anything wrong with that? Sh

Re: [Tango-L] women as leader

2008-02-27 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
Hello Dyane, There could be several reasons why you're meeting resistance. Others might be homophobic or insecure about their own tango, but there's also the possibility that they may think you still have a lot to work as a follower before you can tackle the difficulty of leading. Here, if women

Re: [Tango-L] Shared Pivots - Prerequisites

2008-02-25 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
--- Tango For Her <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Mario asked about learning shared pivots. > > I advise that a prerequisite to leading shared pivots > is to learn and become confortable with various drags > and sandwiches. > > Any other suggestions? I'd suggest enrosques, calesitas, boleos, col

Re: [Tango-L] What's the trick??

2008-02-25 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
--- Michael Figart II <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: My lead is to show my partner the nature, the length, and the direction of the step. As she gathers all this > information, her job is to interpret it, and do her > very best to step exactly WITH me, not to step ahead > of my step, but to help move

Re: [Tango-L] No dancing before the music

2008-02-20 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
--- Anton Stanley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >From my experience, having not learnt to love it, they > then proceed to look for music they do like, to which they can dance Tango. And it seems more and more non Tango music lovers, are dancing Tango to non Tango music. >From my experience, this

Re: [Tango-L] No dancing before the music

2008-02-20 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
--- "Chris, UK" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: The tide of the music reaches the lucky ones > before the harbour > walls grow too high. So empowered, they start to learn to > dance. Wow, Chris, you posted something that I actually agree with and like. "Before the harbour walls grow too high". For

Re: [Tango-L] No dancing before the music

2008-02-19 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
Hello Janis, Out of genuine curiosity, did you listen to tango music for a year before you began dancing? If I think about those I know who have done very well in tango, I honestly don't think that they would wait for a year before hitting the dance floor. They're much too accomplished to let a

Re: [Tango-L] Breaking the 'paso basico.'

2008-02-13 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
--- Keith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Why do Americans have this big problem with the 8CB? Could it be because of the way Americans learn Tango? > > Keith, HK The short answer is "yes". Tom's post gives the long answer. I even know of a well-known Argentine teacher who worked with an excellent

Re: [Tango-L] Breaking the 'paso basico.'

2008-02-12 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
--- "Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > So how can the 8CB be taught successfully? I focused on > using steps 3-8 and used the other steps as accessories. Oops! I meant focusing on steps 3-5 and using steps 1-2 and 6-8 as accessories. Trini

Re: [Tango-L] Breaking the 'paso basico.'

2008-02-12 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
Before I taught close-embrace, I taught tango using the 8CB and produced successful leaders. So I’d say it’s the bad or inexperienced teachers that give the 8CB a bad name. But I also have to agree with Keith that one basically has to make a decision to overcome a habit and practice it over and o

Re: [Tango-L] Let's discuss WALKING

2008-02-11 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
> On Mon Feb 11 1:36 , Mario sent: > > > I would like to start a thread that discusses walking > and all of its many variations > > and challenges ... Such a thread could take forever because they can be so many details! And controversy over teaching versus stylistic issues. I agree with

Re: [Tango-L] demo advice needed

2008-02-10 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
Hola listeros, Thanks everyone for the really great advice. It’s been something I’ve wanted to ask for awhile but was dreading generating a lot of negative posts instead. Someone also sent me a private email giving some great advice about movement of the couple. You’d basically pick one part

[Tango-L] demo advice needed

2008-02-08 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
Hola everyone! If you’re an anti-performance person, please hit your delete key. So I'm wondering if folks might have some tips regarding demos or performances. Our community has gotten a bunch of demo requests lately, particularly among the college students for their universities or college tal

Re: [Tango-L] Funniest Tango Video

2008-02-07 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
Videos can hide the truth in both directions. I've seen videos where the person comes across much better than they actually are. The best way to get information is to talk with people and do the homework. This is what the smart consumer should be doing. --- "Chris, UK" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrot

Re: [Tango-L] How the Tango-L List is Moderated

2008-02-06 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
Shahrukh, I, among many others I'm sure, appreciate all you do in keeping this list going. As an instructor, I encourage my students to subscribe to Tango-L. However, in the past, I've also had to qualify it by telling them "there's a lot of junk emails, but there are a few gems, as well." I ho

Re: [Tango-L] Igor Polk is off the list and Nino Bien

2008-02-02 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
I think Igor's action reflects more poorly on him than it does the moderator. If Igor believed in the quality of his post, then there should be no problem of it getting through. If not, then perhaps he could learn something from it. I've noticed in this age of instant communication/gratification

Re: [Tango-L] How to NOT have to use her body... ?

2008-01-30 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
--- Mario <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I would like to ask if there is any exercise that > > a lead can perform alone that would help develop > > balance and axis to avoid the above problem? Hello Mario, I find that balance and axis are largely influenced by grounding. Grounding can be l

Re: [Tango-L] metin video

2008-01-27 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
Keith: During his first visit here, Pulpo demo'd his trademark moves (not the two-foot walking thing in the video, though) with an intermediate dancer who had never danced/studied with him before. She looked great. Pulpo has such good technique and understanding of mechanics, I'm sure the worksho

Re: [Tango-L] more de-construction/connection

2008-01-26 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
--- Igor Polk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I think you had "Wow" connection with Cacho Dante not > because you was impressed with his fame, or he felt in love with you for that dance. But because he was so skilled in dancing and connection, that it offest all > your flaws. And you felt that "Wow"

Re: [Tango-L] metin video

2008-01-26 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
--- Mario <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Why do women put up with this..are they all masochists ?? > ...and then she smiles and laughs incredulously?? duh > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8jgnvrTxl4&feature=related Mario, The move Metin is demonstrating does look like fun when done correctly.

Re: [Tango-L] more de-construction/connection

2008-01-24 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
--- Mario <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Did you notice the woman lead a quick turn herself?- > near to the end of the video.., I didn't see her do anything that wasn't lead. Can you pinpoint the minutes/seconds when you think she backleads? Good dancers have a number of tools with which to lea

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