Re: [time-nuts] GPS and Rubidium frequency standards and noise question (new...

2012-06-04 Thread Jerry Mulchin
Tim, Can you describe your test setup used to measure the Phase Noise Plots you show in the links provided. Are you using the 8566B to measure the Phase Noise directly, or are you using a Phase Noise test set to make the measurements? Thanks Jerry At 08:33 PM 6/4/2012, you wrote: >On 3/06/2012

Re: [time-nuts] GPS through windows

2012-06-04 Thread lists
The low-E coatings are known to attenuate WIFI. WIFI is probably a worse case than GPS, but the availability of the gear makes experimenting easy. I think they are sputtered metal either on the glass or on a thin film applied to the glass. Southwall Technology in Palo Alto pioneered or at least

Re: [time-nuts] Antenna question about RHCP/LHCP I'm sure a time-nutcan answer

2012-06-04 Thread Jim Lux
On 6/4/12 10:44 PM, Chris Albertson wrote: On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 10:18 PM, Hal Murray wrote: What is the significance of the pointy tops of the long skinny antennas? Guessing. Terminates the end of the conductor to prevent a discontinuity and reflection more likely it's for structural

Re: [time-nuts] GPS through windows

2012-06-04 Thread Jim Lux
On 6/4/12 10:24 PM, Hal Murray wrote: Does window glass have significant attenuation at GPS L1? What if it's a big window on a modern green office building and has some sort of coating/content to reduce IR transmission? Google found an (expensive) paper from IEEE where the abstract said: At

Re: [time-nuts] Antenna question about RHCP/LHCP I'm sure a time-nutcan answer

2012-06-04 Thread Chris Albertson
On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 10:18 PM, Hal Murray wrote: > > What is the significance of the pointy tops of the long skinny antennas? > Guessing. Terminates the end of the conductor to prevent a discontinuity and reflection How about the collars at the base of them? > Another guess: They kill multi

Re: [time-nuts] Antenna question about RHCP/LHCP I'm sure a time-nutcan answer

2012-06-04 Thread David J Taylor
Slightly off-topic, the first time I was aware of polarisation error was during the very first trans-Atlantic TV tests. On the first night, signals were fine in France (who had a copy of the US antenna), but poor in the UK who had designed and built their own antenna). UK changed polarisation

Re: [time-nuts] GPS through windows

2012-06-04 Thread Chris Albertson
Part of the problem of using a window would remain even if the glass where removed. This is the antenna can not "see" the entire sky from a window. You can do "ok" if the window faces South (assume you are in the Northern Hemisphere) With a good timing GPS receiver you only need to see a very sm

[time-nuts] GPS through windows

2012-06-04 Thread Hal Murray
Does window glass have significant attenuation at GPS L1? What if it's a big window on a modern green office building and has some sort of coating/content to reduce IR transmission? Google found an (expensive) paper from IEEE where the abstract said: At average, about 30 dB attenuation is obs

Re: [time-nuts] Antenna question about RHCP/LHCP I'm sure a time-nutcan answer

2012-06-04 Thread Hal Murray
t...@leapsecond.com said: > http://www.ausairpower.net/Block-IIR-M-SV-1S.jpg What is the significance of the pointy tops of the long skinny antennas? How about the collars at the base of them? -- These are my opinions. I hate spam. ___ time-nu

Re: [time-nuts] Antenna question about RHCP/LHCP I'm sure a time-nutcan answer

2012-06-04 Thread Magnus Danielson
On 05/06/12 04:51, Dave Martindale wrote: Well, they could be consistent. Most of those photos show only two sizes of helix-type antennas. The larger diameter (probably lower frequency) are quadrifilar helix designs, and they are uniformly "left hand thread" helixes. (I assume that everyone ag

Re: [time-nuts] LightSquared in the news again

2012-06-04 Thread d . seiter
A law firm with a technology department? -Dave - Original Message - From: "Michael Blazer" To: time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Monday, June 4, 2012 7:44:26 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] LightSquared in the news again It's not a technology company if it has more lawyers than engineers. M

Re: [time-nuts] Antenna question about RHCP/LHCP I'm sure a time-nutcan answer

2012-06-04 Thread Dave Martindale
Well, they could be consistent. Most of those photos show only two sizes of helix-type antennas. The larger diameter (probably lower frequency) are quadrifilar helix designs, and they are uniformly "left hand thread" helixes. (I assume that everyone agrees on what a left-hand thread looks like,

Re: [time-nuts] LightSquared in the news again

2012-06-04 Thread Michael Blazer
It's not a technology company if it has more lawyers than engineers. Mike On 6/4/2012 7:33 PM, Eric Williams wrote: Typical of technology companies that have more lawyers on staff than engineers. On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 5:09 PM, Tom Knox wrote: Lightsquared is like a cockroach every time you

Re: [time-nuts] Antenna question about RHCP/LHCP I'm sure a time-nut can answer

2012-06-04 Thread Chuck Harris
Not quite. "The definition of right-hand circular polarization, as standardized by the IRE... is as follows: For an observer looking in the direction of propagation, the rotation of the electric-field vector in a transverse plane is clockwise." - Jasik, "Antenna Engineering Handbook", First Edit

Re: [time-nuts] Antenna question about RHCP/LHCP I'm sure a time-nutcan answer

2012-06-04 Thread Max Robinson
This is a subject I have some familiarity with. A helix antenna which is right hand for receive is also right hand for transmit. Think of it this way. If you have a bolt with a nut on it and you turn the nut to the right it will move along the bolt away from you. If you turn the bolt around

Re: [time-nuts] LightSquared in the news again

2012-06-04 Thread paul swed
Or like a Burmese python. They come back and strangle everything. Then eat them. On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 8:33 PM, Eric Williams wrote: > Typical of technology companies that have more lawyers on staff than > engineers. > > On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 5:09 PM, Tom Knox wrote: > > > > > Lightsquared is

Re: [time-nuts] LightSquared in the news again

2012-06-04 Thread Eric Williams
Typical of technology companies that have more lawyers on staff than engineers. On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 5:09 PM, Tom Knox wrote: > > Lightsquared is like a cockroach every time you think it is dead it shows > up again. > > Thomas Knox > > 1-303-554-0307 > > > Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2012 19:25:22 -0400

Re: [time-nuts] Antenna question about RHCP/LHCP I'm sure a time-nutcan answer

2012-06-04 Thread Tom Van Baak
David, One of these two photos is correct (odd isn't it)... http://www.ausairpower.net/Block-IIR-M-SV-1S.jpg http://www.ausairpower.net/Block-IIR-M-SV-2S.jpg Maybe these break the tie: http://www.spacemankind.com/images/ms/20090817-lockheed-gps-iir-lr.jpg https://share.sandia.gov/news/resources/r

Re: [time-nuts] Antenna question about RHCP/LHCP I'm sure a time-nut can answer

2012-06-04 Thread Dave Martindale
I don't think that's correct. A right-hand spiral (however you define right-hand) remains right-handed if you rotate the whole object in space so the centre axis of the spiral points in the opposite direction. A right-handed spiral is converted to a left-handed one only by reflecting it in a mirr

Re: [time-nuts] LightSquared in the news again

2012-06-04 Thread Tom Knox
Lightsquared is like a cockroach every time you think it is dead it shows up again. Thomas Knox 1-303-554-0307 > Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2012 19:25:22 -0400 > To: time-nuts@febo.com > From: charles_steinm...@lavabit.com > Subject: [time-nuts] LightSquared in the news again > > From today's communic

Re: [time-nuts] Antenna question about RHCP/LHCP I'm sure a time-nut can answer

2012-06-04 Thread Magnus Danielson
On 05/06/12 00:30, Dr. David Kirkby wrote: This is not exactly a time related question, but I'm sure the subject must be of interest to time-nuts using GPS. If one transmits from an antenna such as a helical one, RHCP, can the same antenna be used for reception, or does the helix need to be woun

[time-nuts] LightSquared in the news again

2012-06-04 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
From today's communications news (fair use): LightSquared stressed its intention to deploy a nationwide 4G wireless broadband network, during a meeting with Angela Giancarlo, chief of staff to FCC Commissioner Robert McDowell. The commission has some legal and policy responses it can take "to

[time-nuts] Antenna question about RHCP/LHCP I'm sure a time-nut can answer

2012-06-04 Thread Dr. David Kirkby
This is not exactly a time related question, but I'm sure the subject must be of interest to time-nuts using GPS. If one transmits from an antenna such as a helical one, RHCP, can the same antenna be used for reception, or does the helix need to be wound the other way? If you google this topi

Re: [time-nuts] WTB: Busted Tek TM500 Counters

2012-06-04 Thread Jeffrey Shank
Hi, I have (4) DC503 for parts, all have good aluminum front panels one has a good plastic frame around the front panel. I am not sure about the operating condition but would check for you this evening. Make me an offer. Shipping would be from zip code 17404 PA Jeff -Original Message-

[time-nuts] WTB: Busted Tek TM500 Counters

2012-06-04 Thread J. Forster
Hi, If anybody has any busted Tek counters sitting somewhere, I'm looking for the following: DC503- NOT a DC503A- with a good aluminum front panel. All else can be trash. DC509- With all good LED displays (3x DL883A). All else can be NG. If you've got either described above, please email off

Re: [time-nuts] GPS and Rubidium frequency standards and noise question (newbie).

2012-06-04 Thread cfo
On Sun, 03 Jun 2012 18:16:15 -0400, Bob Camp wrote: > Hi > > As long as it shows "rev E" or "rev D" it's likely a later version unit. > The date code on the OCXO is the best indicator, but even that's not > 100%. As long as it's one made after about 2002 you will have a good > one. > Search on E

Re: [time-nuts] ANN: UK MSF 60 kHz interruption, 2012 June 14

2012-06-04 Thread paul swed
As noted above the propagation can make quite a mess of things. When wwvb launched way back there was a HP journal showing that in NY city you could establish something like 1 X 10-7th as I recall. I have seen all the propagation twists and turns. I suppose if you were 300-400 miles from the transm

Re: [time-nuts] ANN: UK MSF 60 kHz interruption, 2012 June 14

2012-06-04 Thread mike cook
Le 4 juin 2012 à 05:43, David I. Emery a écrit : > On Sun, Jun 03, 2012 at 09:20:59AM -0700, J. Forster wrote: >> Is there any indication the carriers of WWVB and MSF are locked together? >> >> -John >> >> = > > Given it's only 60 KHz and certainly somewhere north of part