Re: [time-nuts] +/- TI button on 5370B

2013-07-06 Thread Magnus Danielson
Charles, On 07/07/2013 12:30 AM, Charles P. Steinmetz wrote: But what happens if, over a day, your DUT 1PPS wanders ahead and/or beyond the REF 1PPS? This is common with GPS 1PPS boards or with too-accurate house 1PPS references or when comparing poor quartz with a GPSDO. I generated the "AR

Re: [time-nuts] +/- TI button on 5370B

2013-07-06 Thread Magnus Danielson
On 07/06/2013 11:02 PM, Tom Van Baak wrote: Or have I misunderstood what you were saying? But what happens if, over a day, your DUT 1PPS wanders ahead and/or beyond the REF 1PPS? This is common with GPS 1PPS boards or with too-accurate house 1PPS references or when comparing poor quartz with

Re: [time-nuts] +/- TI button on 5370B

2013-07-06 Thread Magnus Danielson
Hi Azelio, On 07/06/2013 10:22 PM, Azelio Boriani wrote: Magnus, you are right, I forgot to mention that without a time-stamping counter it is better to offset the PPSes. With a time stamping counter more cases can be treated such as a free oscillator. Agreed. Many of the issues can be handle

Re: [time-nuts] +/- TI button on 5370B

2013-07-06 Thread Magnus Danielson
On 07/06/2013 08:53 PM, Charles P. Steinmetz wrote: Magnus wrote: For +/- TI mode, using a separate ARM does not help either, since either of the channels suffice as trigger, and the relative timing is resolve dynamically by the counter. For most time, the dead-time will be hidden, but for long

Re: [time-nuts] +/- TI button on 5370B

2013-07-06 Thread Tom Van Baak
> Or have I misunderstood what you were saying? But what happens if, over a day, your DUT 1PPS wanders ahead and/or beyond the REF 1PPS? This is common with GPS 1PPS boards or with too-accurate house 1PPS references or when comparing poor quartz with a GPSDO. One symptom is that all your TI num

Re: [time-nuts] +/- TI button on 5370B

2013-07-06 Thread Azelio Boriani
Magnus, you are right, I forgot to mention that without a time-stamping counter it is better to offset the PPSes. With a time stamping counter more cases can be treated such as a free oscillator. On Sat, Jul 6, 2013 at 8:53 PM, Charles P. Steinmetz wrote: > Magnus wrote: > >> For +/- TI mode, usi

Re: [time-nuts] +/- TI button on 5370B

2013-07-06 Thread Magnus Danielson
Hi Azelio, On 07/06/2013 05:05 PM, Azelio Boriani wrote: Not only: consider that most time interval counters have a minimum measurable interval (Racal 2351 is 2ns) and slowly crossing PPSes can be a problem to measure when they are about to cross. In my opinion it is always better to displace th

Re: [time-nuts] +/- TI button on 5370B

2013-07-06 Thread Azelio Boriani
Not only: consider that most time interval counters have a minimum measurable interval (Racal 2351 is 2ns) and slowly crossing PPSes can be a problem to measure when they are about to cross. In my opinion it is always better to displace the PPSes, easily done when using GPSDOs and by using stable d

Re: [time-nuts] +/- TI button on 5370B

2013-07-06 Thread Magnus Danielson
Hi Charles, This triggered some thoughts. :) On 07/06/2013 06:28 AM, Charles P. Steinmetz wrote: So, for proper operation in +/- TI mode, use external arming to remove the ambiguity when the trigger events cross from + to - and back, and make sure you have adjusted the triggering properly for a

Re: [time-nuts] +/- TI button on 5370B

2013-06-12 Thread Azelio Boriani
Not only HP counters. I have never seen a TI counter that outputs negative values. I use the cable delay or user delay feature of GPSes to delay one PPS to the other so that the result is always positive. I have seen that only oscilloscopes can handle negative time interval values. Maybe that the W

Re: [time-nuts] +/- TI button on 5370B

2013-06-12 Thread Bob Camp
Hi Another simple "solution" - If you are using a GPSDO as a PPS source, use the cable delay to offset the pps you are using as a reference by a microsecond. That's worked on every GPSDO I've tried it on. No it really doesn't solve the problem, it just covers it up. Post processing the dat

Re: [time-nuts] +/- TI button on 5370B

2013-06-11 Thread Said Jackson
Jim, Really annoying feature of HP counters. If you slowly drift from a positive period to a negative one, it will indicate negative numbers for a while. Then almost sudden it will do the jump to 0.9 seconds. I found that adding a phase delay (long cable) helps keep the numbers positiv

[time-nuts] +/- TI button on 5370B

2013-06-11 Thread Jim Palfreyman
Folks, I'm struggling to understand this button and how it reports intervals. It's supposed to show negative when the Stop is before the Start. When I connect up two clocks sending out 1PPS and say the one connected to Stop is ahead then sometimes I'd get -123.45 ns (say) and sometimes it flips t