Re: [time-nuts] Power Supply Noise Affects Thunderbolt 1 PPS

2012-02-28 Thread gary
I hate to be argumentative, but you can't be low drop out and use an emitter follower. Draw the circuit and convince yourself. You would need a high side driver scheme to drive the base/gate, and that require some sort of boost converter. It can be done on switchmode chips, but not in a linear

Re: [time-nuts] Power Supply Noise Affects Thunderbolt 1 PPS

2012-02-28 Thread David
The Linear Technology LT3070 (150mV @ 5A) , LT3071, LT1580 , and LT1581 (700 mV @ 10A) are examples: http://www.linear.com/product/LT1580 For comparison: http://www.linear.com/product/LT1584 The LT1580 (0.8V @ 7A) has the same topology as the LT1584 (1.5V @ 7A) except everything but the pass

Re: [time-nuts] Power Supply Noise Affects Thunderbolt 1 PPS

2012-02-27 Thread Attila Kinali
On Sat, 18 Feb 2012 18:59:21 -0800 Eric Lemmon wb6...@verizon.net wrote: I hooked up a linear triple-output bench supply to run the Thunderbolt, and now the 8040C locked up perfectly on the 1 PPS signal. Since I don't want to tie up one of my bench power supplies to run the Thunderbolt, I

Re: [time-nuts] Power Supply Noise Affects Thunderbolt 1 PPS

2012-02-27 Thread gary
On 2/27/2012 12:48 AM, Attila Kinali wrote: If you are really time-nutty, you can let the DC/DC converters produce a voltage about 1V above what you need and use low noise LDOs (ie not the 78xx or LM317 Co) to produce the voltages for the thunderbolt. This should give you a 60-80dB damping

Re: [time-nuts] Power Supply Noise Affects Thunderbolt 1 PPS

2012-02-27 Thread Steve
Having designed LDO chips, people expect them to perform miracles well beyond reality. If you have a PNP pass and you are sitting near dropout, you get control loops that are an ugly combination of a path to keep the PNP from getting saturated plus one to control the voltage. I never

Re: [time-nuts] Power Supply Noise Affects Thunderbolt 1 PPS

2012-02-27 Thread Steve
Having designed LDO chips, people expect them to perform miracles well beyond reality. If you have a PNP pass and you are sitting near dropout, you get control loops that are an ugly combination of a path to keep the PNP from getting saturated plus one to control the voltage. I never

Re: [time-nuts] Power Supply Noise Affects Thunderbolt 1 PPS

2012-02-27 Thread Attila Kinali
On Mon, 27 Feb 2012 01:29:11 -0800 gary li...@lazygranch.com wrote: On 2/27/2012 12:48 AM, Attila Kinali wrote: If you are really time-nutty, you can let the DC/DC converters produce a voltage about 1V above what you need and use low noise LDOs (ie not the 78xx or LM317 Co) to produce

Re: [time-nuts] Power Supply Noise Affects Thunderbolt 1 PPS

2012-02-27 Thread lists
-To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Power Supply Noise Affects Thunderbolt 1 PPS Having designed LDO chips, people expect them to perform miracles well beyond reality. If you have a PNP pass and you are sitting near

Re: [time-nuts] Power Supply Noise Affects Thunderbolt 1 PPS

2012-02-27 Thread lists
: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2012 11:23:22 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurementtime-nuts@febo.com Reply-To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Power Supply Noise Affects Thunderbolt 1 PPS On Mon

Re: [time-nuts] Power Supply Noise Affects Thunderbolt 1 PPS

2012-02-27 Thread gary
-To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Power Supply Noise Affects Thunderbolt 1 PPS Having designed LDO chips, people expect them to perform miracles well beyond reality. If you have a PNP pass and you are sitting near dropout, you get

Re: [time-nuts] Power Supply Noise Affects Thunderbolt 1 PPS

2012-02-27 Thread Eric Lemmon
...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Attila Kinali Sent: Monday, February 27, 2012 12:48 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Power Supply Noise Affects Thunderbolt 1 PPS On Sat, 18 Feb 2012 18:59:21 -0800 Eric Lemmon wb6...@verizon.net wrote: I hooked up a linear

Re: [time-nuts] Power Supply Noise Affects Thunderbolt 1 PPS

2012-02-27 Thread ed breya
The PNP bipolar and P-channel MOSFET architectures do provide the best low-dropout performance, but as I understand, do not provide the best HF line rejection. Looking at the overall circuit - a high gain, band-limited amplifier driving a P pass device puts it in a common-base (or -gate) mode,

Re: [time-nuts] Power Supply Noise Affects Thunderbolt 1 PPS

2012-02-27 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
Ed wrote: So, for best HF noise performance where the input noise may be large, it's best to use a follower or shunt regulator topology, despite the lower efficiency - unless efficiency is more important. To put it more bluntly, the last time I looked (it has been a while, so there may be

Re: [time-nuts] Power Supply Noise Affects Thunderbolt 1 PPS

2012-02-27 Thread gary
Well this is the granddaddy with 3V of dropout. Not much rejection at high frequency, but the design is old. Modern LDOs are better, especially with P-fet pass device. http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/lm317-n.pdf On 2/27/2012 9:13 PM, Charles P. Steinmetz wrote: Ed wrote: So, for best HF

[time-nuts] Power Supply Noise Affects Thunderbolt 1 PPS

2012-02-18 Thread Eric Lemmon
I recently acquired a Symmetricom 8040C Rubidium Standard, hoping to use one of my Thunderbolt GPSDOs to further refine its 10 MHz output. To my surprise, connecting the 1 PPS output to the 8040C did nothing- the 1 PPS SYNC indicator stayed dark. I hooked up my other Thunderbolt and got the