Hal Murray wrote:
>> What do you mean by "diplexer"?
>>
>
> It's one of those magic RF/Microwave boxes.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diplexor
>
>
>
No, in this context it usually means a circuit that terminates the mixer
port in 50 ohms for RF frequencies whilst maintaining a different
> What do you mean by "diplexer"?
It's one of those magic RF/Microwave boxes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diplexor
--
These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's. I hate spam.
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To unsubs
Pete,
At 4:58 AM + 12/27/08, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote:
>
>Message: 2
>Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2008 19:10:47 -0700
>From: "Pete"
>Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Sub Pico Second Phase logger
>To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"
>
Pete
Another very useful thing to do is to measure the output noise spectrum
at the of mixer port both with capacitive termination and with a diplexer.
You can do this with your PC sound card system (even the motherboard
one) and a low noise preamp.
If you want a simple low noise preamp circuit I
Pete
Pete wrote:
> Joe,
>
> I have been following this thread from the start & learned a lot from it.
>
> Thanks to you and Bruce for the insights.
>
> I thought I would take a look at a simple, passive approach, just to
> see what happens. I also limited my attention to stable 5 or 10 MHz
> sourc
Joe,
I have been following this thread from the start & learned a lot from it.
Thanks to you and Bruce for the insights.
I thought I would take a look at a simple, passive approach, just to
see what happens. I also limited my attention to stable 5 or 10 MHz
sources & observation windows of <100s
Bruce,
At 10:16 PM + 12/23/08, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote:
>
>Message: 1
>Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 08:47:21 +1300
>From: Bruce Griffiths
>Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Sub Pico Second Phase logger
>To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
At 5:05 PM + 12/23/08, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote:
>Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 16:10:29 +
>From: Mark Sims
>Subject: [time-nuts] Sub Pico Second Phase logger
>To:
>Message-ID:
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
>
>
>Since when has
Joe
Joe Gwinn wrote:
> Bruce,
>
> At 11:43 PM + 12/22/08, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote:
>
>> Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 12:01:40 +1300
>> From: Bruce Griffiths
>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Sub Pico Second Phase logger
>> To: Discussion of pr
Since when has prior art or obviousness kept the US Patent Orifice from issuing
a patent? ;-)
-
I just read 5,267,182. It appears to anticipate Sotiriadis in every
aspect, so it may be a *long* time before Sotiriadis's patent is
issued.
Bruce,
At 11:43 PM + 12/22/08, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote:
>
>Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 12:01:40 +1300
>From: Bruce Griffiths
>Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Sub Pico Second Phase logger
>To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
>
>
>[snip]
&g
Joe
Joe Gwinn wrote:
> Bruce,
>
> At 9:08 PM + 12/22/08, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote:
>
>> Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 10:08:35 +1300
>> From: Bruce Griffiths
>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Sub Pico Second Phase logger
>> To: Discussion of pr
At 11:19 +1300 22-12-2008, Bruce Griffiths wrote:
>Ulrich has built a circuit that takes a sampling frequency input derived
>from a 10MHz GPSDO output and produces an S/PDIF output for this
>application.
Most common S/PDIF receiver chips have >100ps jitter. Lower jitter
implementations are availa
Bruce,
At 9:08 PM + 12/22/08, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote:
>
>Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 10:08:35 +1300
>From: Bruce Griffiths
>Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Sub Pico Second Phase logger
>To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
>
>
>Joe
>Joe
Joe
Joe Gwinn wrote:
> At 2:01 AM + 12/22/08, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote:
>
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 11:19:06 +1300
>> From: Bruce Griffiths
>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Sub Pico Second Phase logger
>> To: Discussion of pr
At 2:01 AM + 12/22/08, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote:
>
>Message: 4
>Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 11:19:06 +1300
>From: Bruce Griffiths
>Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Sub Pico Second Phase logger
>To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
>
>
>Joe
>
Ulrich,
At 7:57 AM + 12/22/08, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote:
>
>Message: 7
>Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 08:56:55 +0100
>From: "Ulrich Bangert"
>Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Sub Pico Second Phase logger
>To: "'Discussion of precise time and frequency m
ement'
> Betreff: Re: [time-nuts] Sub Pico Second Phase logger
>
>
> Joe and Bruce,
>
> > Ulrich has built a circuit that takes a sampling frequency
> > input derived from a 10MHz GPSDO output and produces an
> > S/PDIF output for this application. Its cer
time-nuts-boun...@febo.com
> [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] Im Auftrag von Bruce Griffiths
> Gesendet: Sonntag, 21. Dezember 2008 23:19
> An: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> Betreff: Re: [time-nuts] Sub Pico Second Phase logger
>
>
> Joe
>
>
> Yes. Basically, every digital chip in this scheme requires a
> computer of some kind. What I've seen used is a small CPLD to do the
> initial parameter loads, and then to run the show.
If you prefer software to hardware, both Microchip (PIC) and Atmel (AVR) make
microprocessors that are ava
Joe
Joe Gwinn wrote:
> Bruce,
>
> At 9:50 PM + 12/19/08, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote:
>
>> Message: 7
>> Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 10:38:26 +1300
>> From: Bruce Griffiths
>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Sub Pico Second Phase logger
>> To: Discussion
Joe
Joe Gwinn wrote:
> Bruce,
>
> At 9:50 PM + 12/19/08, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote:
>
>> Message: 8
>> Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 10:50:46 +1300
>> From: Bruce Griffiths
>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Sub Pico Second Phase logger
>> To: Discussion
Bruce,
At 9:50 PM + 12/19/08, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote:
>
>Message: 8
>Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 10:50:46 +1300
>From: Bruce Griffiths
>Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Sub Pico Second Phase logger
>To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
>
>
Bruce,
At 9:50 PM + 12/19/08, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote:
>
>Message: 7
>Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 10:38:26 +1300
>From: Bruce Griffiths
>Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Sub Pico Second Phase logger
>To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
>
>
Joe
Joe Gwinn wrote:
> Bruce,
>
> At 3:54 AM + 12/19/08, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote:
>
>> Message: 6
>> Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 16:54:12 +1300
>> From: Bruce Griffiths
>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Sub Pico Second Phase logger
>> To: Discussion
Joe
Joe Gwinn wrote:
> Bruce,
>
> At 3:54 AM + 12/19/08, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote:
>
>> Message: 5
>> Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 16:51:55 +1300
>> From: Bruce Griffiths
>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Sub Pico Second Phase logger
>> To: Discussion
Bruce,
At 3:54 AM + 12/19/08, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote:
>
>Message: 6
>Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 16:54:12 +1300
>From: Bruce Griffiths
>Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Sub Pico Second Phase logger
>To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
>
&g
Bruce,
At 3:54 AM + 12/19/08, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote:
>
>Message: 5
>Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 16:51:55 +1300
>From: Bruce Griffiths
>Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Sub Pico Second Phase logger
>To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
>
>
On Friday 19 December 2008 02:46, Joe Gwinn wrote:
> > >> 10Hz resolution whilst avoiding phase truncation spurs is
> > >> impractical
> >>> with a DDS chip by itself.
> >>> Depending on the DDS and its clock frequency, the frequency
> >>> spacing of phase truncation spur free outputs may be as
Joe
Joe Gwinn wrote:
> This is from home. I'll not be at work until next year.
>
> At 11:48 PM + 12/18/08, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote:
>
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 12:17:33 +1300
>> From: Bruce Griffiths
>> Subject: Re: [time
Joe
Joe Gwinn wrote:
> At 11:48 PM + 12/18/08, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote:
>
>> Message: 5
>> Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 12:48:27 +1300
>> From: Bruce Griffiths
>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Sub Pico Second Phase logger
>> To: Discussion of pr
At 11:48 PM + 12/18/08, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote:
>
>Message: 5
>Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 12:48:27 +1300
>From: Bruce Griffiths
>Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Sub Pico Second Phase logger
>To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
>
>Me
This is from home. I'll not be at work until next year.
At 11:48 PM + 12/18/08, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote:
>Message: 4
>Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 12:17:33 +1300
>From: Bruce Griffiths
>Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Sub Pico Second Phase logger
>To: Discussion of precis
Joe
Joseph M Gwinn wrote:
> Bruce,
>
>
> time-nuts-boun...@febo.com wrote on 12/17/2008 06:26:00 PM:
>
> [snip]
>
>>>
>>>
[BG] It isn't necessary to use a pair of mixers and an offset source
> to
>
characterise the sound card, driving both sound card inputs fr
Joe
Joseph M Gwinn wrote:
> Bruce,
>
> time-nuts-boun...@febo.com wrote on 12/17/2008 03:43:16 PM:
>
>
>> Joe
>>
>> Joseph M Gwinn wrote:
>>
>>> Bruce,
>>>
>>>
>>> time-nuts-boun...@febo.com wrote on 12/16/2008 10:21:55 PM:
>>>
>>>
> [snip]
>
[BG] Obtaining suitable mixers f
Bruce,
time-nuts-boun...@febo.com wrote on 12/17/2008 06:26:00 PM:
[snip]
> >
> >
> >
> >> [BG] It isn't necessary to use a pair of mixers and an offset source
to
> >> characterise the sound card, driving both sound card inputs from the
> >> same audio source should suffice.
> >>
> >
> > [JG]
Bruce,
time-nuts-boun...@febo.com wrote on 12/17/2008 03:43:16 PM:
> Joe
>
> Joseph M Gwinn wrote:
> > Bruce,
> >
> >
> > time-nuts-boun...@febo.com wrote on 12/16/2008 10:21:55 PM:
> >
[snip]
> >
> >> [BG] Obtaining suitable mixers for 5MHz and 10MHz input frequencies
or even
> >> 100MHz is
Joseph M Gwinn wrote:
> Bruce,
>
>
> time-nuts-boun...@febo.com wrote on 12/16/2008 09:05:55 PM:
>
>
>> Joseph M Gwinn wrote:
>>
>>> Bruce,
>>>
>>>
>>> time-nuts-boun...@febo.com wrote on 12/15/2008 05:31:27 PM:
>>>
>>>
>>>
Joseph M Gwinn wrote:
> Bruce,
>
Bruce,
time-nuts-boun...@febo.com wrote on 12/16/2008 09:05:55 PM:
> Joseph M Gwinn wrote:
> > Bruce,
> >
> >
> > time-nuts-boun...@febo.com wrote on 12/15/2008 05:31:27 PM:
> >
> >
> >> Joseph M Gwinn wrote:
> >>
> >>> Bruce,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> time-nuts-boun...@febo.com wrote on 12/15/2008 04
Joe
Joseph M Gwinn wrote:
> Bruce,
>
>
> time-nuts-boun...@febo.com wrote on 12/16/2008 10:21:55 PM:
>
>
>> Joe
>>
>> Joseph M Gwinn wrote:
>>
>>> Bruce,
>>>
>>>
> [snip]
>
> Bruce wrote:
>
A CB stage probably isn't optimum for the mixer preamp so that lower
value ca
Bruce,
time-nuts-boun...@febo.com wrote on 12/16/2008 10:21:55 PM:
> Joe
>
> Joseph M Gwinn wrote:
> > Bruce,
> >
[snip]
> >
Bruce wrote:
> >>
> >> A CB stage probably isn't optimum for the mixer preamp so that lower
> >> value caps can be used provided that they effectively short the
> >> am
Joe
Joseph M Gwinn wrote:
> Bruce,
>
>
> time-nuts-boun...@febo.com wrote on 12/16/2008 08:43:29 PM:
>
>
>> Joe
>>
>> Joseph M Gwinn wrote:
>>
>>> Bruce,
>>>
>>>
>>> time-nuts-boun...@febo.com wrote on 12/15/2008 06:42:59 PM:
>>>
>>>
> [snip]
>
>
However the p
Bruce,
time-nuts-boun...@febo.com wrote on 12/16/2008 08:43:29 PM:
> Joe
>
> Joseph M Gwinn wrote:
> > Bruce,
> >
> >
> > time-nuts-boun...@febo.com wrote on 12/15/2008 06:42:59 PM:
> >
[snip]
> >>>
> >>>
> >> However the proposed remedy has little or no effect on the errors
caused
> >> by su
Joseph M Gwinn wrote:
> Bruce,
>
>
> time-nuts-boun...@febo.com wrote on 12/15/2008 05:31:27 PM:
>
>
>> Joseph M Gwinn wrote:
>>
>>> Bruce,
>>>
>>>
>>> time-nuts-boun...@febo.com wrote on 12/15/2008 04:34:34 PM:
>>>
>>>
> [snip]
>
I need to build a noise source to check the a
Joe
Joseph M Gwinn wrote:
> Bruce,
>
>
> time-nuts-boun...@febo.com wrote on 12/15/2008 06:42:59 PM:
>
>
>> Joe
>> Joseph M Gwinn wrote:
>>
>>> Bruce,
>>>
>>>
>>> time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [Bruce] wrote on 12/15/2008 04:56:26 PM:
>>>
>>>
>
>
>>> [snip]
>>>
>>>
Bruce,
time-nuts-boun...@febo.com wrote on 12/15/2008 05:31:27 PM:
> Joseph M Gwinn wrote:
> > Bruce,
> >
> >
> > time-nuts-boun...@febo.com wrote on 12/15/2008 04:34:34 PM:
> >
[snip]
> >
> >> I need to build a noise source to check the absolute level.
> >> Will use the amplified Johnson noise
Bruce,
time-nuts-boun...@febo.com wrote on 12/15/2008 06:42:59 PM:
> Joe
> Joseph M Gwinn wrote:
> > Bruce,
> >
> >
> > time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [Bruce] wrote on 12/15/2008 04:56:26 PM:
> >
> > [snip]
> >
> >
> >
> >> The only configuration for which it makes any sense i
Joe
Joseph M Gwinn wrote:
> Bruce,
>
>
> time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [Bruce] wrote on 12/15/2008 04:56:26 PM:
>
>
>> Joe
>>
>> Joseph M Gwinn wrote:
>>
>>> Bruce,
>>>
>>>
>>> time-nuts-boun...@febo.com wrote on 12/11/2008 07:44:01 PM:
>>>
>>>
>>>
> [snip]
>
>>>
Using a
Bruce,
time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [Bruce] wrote on 12/15/2008 04:56:26 PM:
> Joe
>
> Joseph M Gwinn wrote:
> > Bruce,
> >
> >
> > time-nuts-boun...@febo.com wrote on 12/11/2008 07:44:01 PM:
> >
> >
[snip]
> >
> >
> >> Using a passive splitter for the LO drives will gain at least another
> >>
Joseph M Gwinn wrote:
> Bruce,
>
>
> time-nuts-boun...@febo.com wrote on 12/15/2008 04:34:34 PM:
>
>
>> Joseph M Gwinn wrote:
>>
>>> Bruce,
>>>
>>>
>>> time-nuts-boun...@febo.com wrote on 12/11/2008 08:36:47 PM:
>>>
>>>
>>>
Joe
Attached is noise spectrum (1kHz and belo
Bruce,
time-nuts-boun...@febo.com wrote on 12/15/2008 04:34:34 PM:
> Joseph M Gwinn wrote:
> > Bruce,
> >
> >
> > time-nuts-boun...@febo.com wrote on 12/11/2008 08:36:47 PM:
> >
> >
> >> Joe
> >>
> >> Attached is noise spectrum (1kHz and below) of AP192 with nothing
> >> connected to inputs.
>
Joe
Joseph M Gwinn wrote:
> Bruce,
>
>
> time-nuts-boun...@febo.com wrote on 12/11/2008 07:44:01 PM:
>
>
>> Joe
>>
>> Isolation from mixer RF to LO port may be too low when the mixer input
>> frequencies are different.
>> Injection locking can then occur all too easily (just ask Ulrich about
>>
Joseph M Gwinn wrote:
> Bruce,
>
>
> time-nuts-boun...@febo.com wrote on 12/11/2008 08:36:47 PM:
>
>
>> Joe
>>
>> Attached is noise spectrum (1kHz and below) of AP192 with nothing
>> connected to inputs.
>> Sampling rate 96KSPS.
>> Frequency bin equivalent noise bandwidth ~ 3Hz.
>> Noise has sim
Bruce,
time-nuts-boun...@febo.com wrote on 12/11/2008 07:44:01 PM:
> Joe
>
> Isolation from mixer RF to LO port may be too low when the mixer input
> frequencies are different.
> Injection locking can then occur all too easily (just ask Ulrich about
> this) when the mixer RF ports are driven by
Bruce,
time-nuts-boun...@febo.com wrote on 12/11/2008 08:36:47 PM:
> Joe
>
> Attached is noise spectrum (1kHz and below) of AP192 with nothing
> connected to inputs.
> Sampling rate 96KSPS.
> Frequency bin equivalent noise bandwidth ~ 3Hz.
> Noise has similar spectrum to flicker noise with a no
Joe
Attached is noise spectrum (1kHz and below) of AP192 with nothing
connected to inputs.
Sampling rate 96KSPS.
Frequency bin equivalent noise bandwidth ~ 3Hz.
Noise has similar spectrum to flicker noise with a noise corner of
around 300Hz or so.
Bruce
<>
Joe
Isolation from mixer RF to LO port may be too low when the mixer input
frequencies are different.
Injection locking can then occur all too easily (just ask Ulrich about
this) when the mixer RF ports are driven by 2 separate OCXOs.
Detailed in line post follows:
Bruce
Joseph M Gwinn wrote:
>
> > > The Symmetricom 5120A does something very clever to alleviate this
> > > problem. Explained in US patent 7,227,346 and "Direct-Digital
> Phase-Noise
> > > Measurement"; J. Grove, J. Hein, J. Retta, P. Schweiger, W. Solbrig,
> and
> > > S.R. Stein; 2004 IEEE International Ultrasonics, Ferroe
Bruce,
time-nuts-boun...@febo.com wrote on 12/10/2008 08:38:13 PM:
> Joe
> Joseph M Gwinn wrote:
> > Bruce,
> >
> >
> >> Reflecting the sum frequency back into the mixer is actually
necessary
> >> to reduce the noise at the IF port.
> >> I believe that one of Agilent's simulation application n
Brooke
The NIST papers concerned were about using mixers as phase detectors:
http://tf.nist.gov/timefreq/general/pdf/112.pdf
http://tf.nist.gov/timefreq/general/pdf/971.pdf
As is all too often the case with some NIST papers the operating conditions for
which the stated phase detection charact
Hi Bruce:
A general comments on mixers.
Since they are very nonlinear devices the output consists of signals at:
+/-m * RF +/-n * LO.
The output will change if the termination on any of the ports at any of those
frequencies is changed. How much it changes depends on how strong that signal
is.
Joe
I suspect that the phase detector characteristics stated in the NIST
papers only apply when the mixer RF port is saturated.
This is evident from the Kurtz application note:
http://www.wj.com/archive/documents/Tech_Notes_Archived/Mixers_phase_detectors.pdf
which indicates (Figure 14 and Figu
It appears that both Microsoft and Ebay have taken to hiring illiterate
preschoolers for programmers... and fired their quality control/testing staff.
Hotmail has apparently forbidden the use use either CR or LF in any of their
messages. And Ebay's latest changes have made most of their listi
2008/12/11 Mark Sims <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> With enough hot air you can... now if I can only get Billly G and Microslosh
> to insert CR LF into a Hotmail message...> You can blow out a candle but you
> can't blow out a fire...
Does this qualify as top-posting or some new form of posting, perh
With enough hot air you can... now if I can only get Billly G and Microslosh
to insert CR LF into a Hotmail message...> You can blow out a candle but you
can't blow out a fire...
_
Send e-mail faster without improving your typing
mber 10, 2008 9:27 PM
> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Sub Pico Second Phase logger (Posting Style)
>
> Let's have a top-posting versus bottom-posting fight!
>
> But we're too late, it's already been done:
>
>
Joe
A screen shot indicating the AP192 sound card noise level with nothing
connected to the inputs is attached.
Reference level is full scale (4Vrms).
Aside from the few discrete spurs which differ between both channels the
region from 1 - 10kHz is fairly quiet.
Technical Notes:
FFT bin equivalen
: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Joseph M Gwinn
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 9:27 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Sub Pico Second Phase logger (Posting Style)
Let's have a top-posting versus bottom-posting
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
12/10/2008 09:06 PM
Please respond to
Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
To
"'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'"
cc
Subject
Re: [time-nuts] Sub Pico Second Phase logger
I am now
:38 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Sub Pico Second Phase logger
Joe
Joseph M Gwinn wrote:
> Bruce,
>
>
>> Reflecting the sum frequency back into the mixer is actually
necessary
>> to reduce the noise at the IF port.
>
Joseph M Gwinn wrote:
> Bruce,
>
>
>
> The low frequency noise of the components used in their unoptimised
> slope amplifiers is significantly smaller than that of a sound card.
>
>
> Who is "their"? But I would hazard that people designing for operation at
> 1 Hz chose components with low fli
Joe
Joseph M Gwinn wrote:
> Bruce,
>
>
>> Reflecting the sum frequency back into the mixer is actually necessary
>> to reduce the noise at the IF port.
>> I believe that one of Agilent's simulation application notes mentions
>> this effect but I don't recall the actual application note number.
>
Bruce,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 12/10/2008 07:58:49 PM:
> Joseph M Gwinn wrote:
> > Bruce,
> >
> >
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 12/10/2008 04:46:50 PM:
> >
> >
> >> Joe
> >>
> >> Another limitation on using too low a beat frequency is imposed by
the
> >> increasing equivalent input noise s
Joseph M Gwinn wrote:
> Bruce,
>
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 12/10/2008 04:46:50 PM:
>
>
>> Joe
>>
>> Another limitation on using too low a beat frequency is imposed by the
>> increasing equivalent input noise spectral density of the sound card as
>> the frequency decreases.
>>
>
> Yes,
Bruce,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 12/10/2008 04:46:50 PM:
> Joe
>
> Another limitation on using too low a beat frequency is imposed by the
> increasing equivalent input noise spectral density of the sound card as
> the frequency decreases.
Yes, although people made good use of 1 Hz in DMTD ins
Bruce,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 12/09/2008 09:20:08 PM:
> Joe
>
> Joseph M Gwinn wrote:
> > Bruce,
> >
> >> A PCB mount mixer package is also preferable as its then much easier
to
> >> use a capacitive IF port termination (for lower noise) in conjunction
> >> with series resistors at the RF
Joe
Another limitation on using too low a beat frequency is imposed by the
increasing equivalent input noise spectral density of the sound card as
the frequency decreases.
Bruce
___
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Joe
Joseph M Gwinn wrote:
> Bruce,
>
>>> By the way, despite the circuit diagram in the datasheet, the
>>> corresponding phase-detector module MPD-1 can be wired to have the IF
>>> output ground isolated from the common RF, LO and case ground. A
>>> little work with an ohmmeter will tell th
Bruce,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 12/09/2008 07:55:50 PM:
> Joseph M Gwinn wrote:
> > Bruce,
> >
> >
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 12/09/2008 07:10:55 PM:
> >
> >
> >> Paper with capacitive IF port termination data:
> >>
> >> http://tf.nist.gov/timefreq/general/pdf/112.pdf
> >>
> >
> > This o
Bruce,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 12/09/2008 06:24:22 PM:
> Joseph M Gwinn wrote:
> > Bruce
> >
> >
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 12/08/2008 07:12:22 PM:
> >
> >
[snip]
> >
> >
> >>> Many mixers have IF response down to DC.
> >>>
> >>>
> >> Oops, I meant "single diode type double balanced mi
Joseph M Gwinn wrote:
> Bruce,
>
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 12/09/2008 07:10:55 PM:
>
>
>> Paper with capacitive IF port termination data:
>>
>> http://tf.nist.gov/timefreq/general/pdf/112.pdf
>>
>
> This one is new to me, and interesting. More later, when I've read it.
>
>
>
>> Pha
Bruce,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 12/09/2008 07:10:55 PM:
> Paper with capacitive IF port termination data:
>
> http://tf.nist.gov/timefreq/general/pdf/112.pdf
This one is new to me, and interesting. More later, when I've read it.
> Phase detector sensitivity to distortion:
>
> http://tf.n
Paper with capacitive IF port termination data:
http://tf.nist.gov/timefreq/general/pdf/112.pdf
Phase detector sensitivity to distortion:
http://tf.nist.gov/timefreq/general/pdf/1437.pdf
Bruce
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To uns
Joseph M Gwinn wrote:
> Bruce
>
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 12/08/2008 07:12:22 PM:
>
>
>> Joseph M Gwinn wrote:
>>
>>> Bruce,
>>>
>>>
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 12/08/2008 05:53:08 PM:
>>>
>>>
>>>
Joseph M Gwinn wrote:
> People used passive mixers
Bruce
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 12/08/2008 07:12:22 PM:
> Joseph M Gwinn wrote:
> > Bruce,
> >
> >
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 12/08/2008 05:53:08 PM:
> >
> >
> >> Joseph M Gwinn wrote:
> >>
> >>> People used passive mixers driving electromechanical stripchart
recorders
> >>> to compare
Joseph M Gwinn wrote:
> Bruce,
>
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 12/08/2008 05:53:08 PM:
>
>
>> Joseph M Gwinn wrote:
>>
>>> People used passive mixers driving electromechanical stripchart
>>>
> recorders
>
>>> to compare high-stability oscillators in the good old days.
>>>
>>> O
Bruce,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 12/08/2008 05:53:08 PM:
> Joseph M Gwinn wrote:
> > People used passive mixers driving electromechanical stripchart
recorders
> > to compare high-stability oscillators in the good old days.
> >
> > One assumes that there is a purely analog approach to measurem
Joseph M Gwinn wrote:
> People used passive mixers driving electromechanical stripchart recorders
> to compare high-stability oscillators in the good old days.
>
> One assumes that there is a purely analog approach to measurement of
> picosecond changes in delay at 10 MHz using a single oscillato
People used passive mixers driving electromechanical stripchart recorders
to compare high-stability oscillators in the good old days.
One assumes that there is a purely analog approach to measurement of
picosecond changes in delay at 10 MHz using a single oscillator, but I
have not seen any met
WarrenS wrote:
> Bruce
>
> Thanks, for pointing out my FF mistake. I do know that at this level of
> resolution
> you can not have two edges that are close together in the same AIR Space,
> let alone the same IC without some interaction.I would not put them on the
> same PCB or PS
> when checki
Bruce
Thanks, for pointing out my FF mistake. I do know that at this level of
resolution
you can not have two edges that are close together in the same AIR Space,
let alone the same IC without some interaction.I would not put them on the same
PCB or PS
when checking what the best possible reso
Warren
>> Another potential issue is crosstalk between flipflops in the same
>> package, in particular between the 2 clock signals.
>> Such effects will not be evident when using a single clock source to
>> evaluate the system noise.
>> Using fully differential logic such as ECL will reduce such co
> Warren
>
> Another potential issue is crosstalk between flipflops in the same
> package, in particular between the 2 clock signals.
> Such effects will not be evident when using a single clock source to
> evaluate the system noise.
> Using fully differential logic such as ECL will reduce such
WarrenS wrote:
> Bruce
>
> asked)
> Doesn't this phase detector, like all digital phase detectors, have
> significant non linearity at the ends of its range?
> In the case of an XOR gate phase detector this is caused by the finite
> slew rate of the gate output.
>
> Thanks for all the ideas and I
Warren
> Bruce
>
> asked)
> Doesn't this phase detector, like all digital phase detectors, have
> significant non linearity at the ends of its range?
> In the case of an XOR gate phase detector this is caused by the finite
> slew rate of the gate output.
>
> Thanks for all the ideas and Informati
se detector's
output always stays at zero. The differential detector can reduce phase
detector errors
by many orders of magnitude.
WarrenS
*
Bruce Griffiths bruce.griffiths at xtra.co.nz
Fri Dec 5 05:09:53 UTC 2008
a.. Previous message: [time-nuts] Sub Pico
WarrenS wrote:
> Building a Sub Pico Second phase detector.
>
> I was inspired to build this project yesterday after downloading and trying
> Ulrich Bangert's 'DF6JB's Plotter 2008-10-10' program with its unbelievable
> flexible user Interface capabilities.
> http://www.ulrich-bangert.de/htm
Building a Sub Pico Second phase detector.
I was inspired to build this project yesterday after downloading and trying
Ulrich Bangert's 'DF6JB's Plotter 2008-10-10' program with its unbelievable
flexible user Interface capabilities.
http://www.ulrich-bangert.de/html/downloads.html
What I n
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