On 24 May Stephen Black wrote re the passage on Fechner in Ernest Jones's
biography on Freud [snip]:
What Jones said, in expanded form was this:
He did not commit himself on the question of whether unconscious
processes could be psychical, but of their importance otherwise he was
convinced. that
As the hunt for the originator of the Freud iceberg quote gathers ever
more momentum, I jumped forward to some of the 37,000 Google pages for
Sigmund Freud + iceberg. No luck, but I found the following, which shows
that you don't have to be a professor of psychology at Harvard to be
historically
OK!This iceberg thread has been on for too long.Could this be
construed as an indication of OCD perseveration in some tipsters? My
therapy for this
is Thought stopping and do it now.
Michael Sylvester,PhD
Daytona Beach,Florida
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Hi all:
I have been working on the iceberg problem and have realized there is a
second issue involved. I spent the last couple of days with the working
hypothesis that some other psychoanalyst used the iceberg metaphor and
that it got attributed to Freud because, as Allen Esterson pointed
Dear Tipsters,
I reproduce (far) below the recent posting by Michael Donnelly and two last
week by Jon Mueller and Alan Esterson.
I think it is clear now that we have not found the term iceberg in Freud, but
I would like to draw attention again to the point made by Jon and Alan that
Freud did
The search for historical
"firsts" almost always ends up like this. The line between a "true"
original instance and a "near-miss" precursor becomes finer and finer
until it seems to vanish completely. Then one starts erecting fairly
aribtrary "signposts" in order to rule out the instances one
I know we have some intro text book writers that at least lurk this
list. Anyone want to jump in on their impression of the discussion;
its importance to teaching.
I guess this is a really fun exercise for us but in the big picture of
things how important is it that students know if Freud
Chris:
Thanks for the words of wisdom. I think my
own motivation here comes from the urban legend aspects of this story.
Here I think we are working in much the same way as the folks at Snopes, or
that Gould did as he chased down the source of the Eohippus is about the
size of fox
Annette Taylor, Ph. D. wrote:
Does it matter if we present the quote and/or the lovely images
summarized on the blog link, knowing that a few years from now they
will only remember the gist--that Freud talked about the mind as
largely submerged and out of conscious awareness?
It is
Mike D noted:
So in a way, I'm not sure that we're approaching this less as a problem of historiography, and more as a problem of scholarship. I want to know where and when this idea crept into common knowledge, if it did in fact come from Freud, and if it did not, if we can at least make a
Dear Tipsters,
I agree with Chris that this issue matters for, ahem, low level teaching and
disagree with Michael S. that the thread is worn.
In an introductory level course, it is appropriate to teach good scholarship
whenever the opportunity arises. The iceberg case provides such an
Ken Steele writes:
Further, and I would like Allen Esterson to comment, the iceberg
analogy seems unlike most of the analogies I have seen in the
literature. Most of the analogies I have seen suggest movement, forces
in conflict, or animate beings in conflict. The iceberg analogy is
literally a
Ken Steele writes:
Further, and I would like Allen Esterson to comment, the iceberg
analogy seems unlike most of the analogies I have seen in the
literature. Most of the analogies I have seen suggest movement, forces
in conflict, or animate beings in conflict. The iceberg analogy is
literally
That is true and is not limited to Encarta. Virtually all uses of the
iceberg analogy in Intro Psych texts have a detailed overlay of the
iceberg's fault lines between id, ego and superego. I can't think of a
single representation I have seen that does not include those concepts.
Rick
Dr. Rick
Hi all,It appears that I'm the only one who thought it important, but yesterday I pointed out that, in 1912, G. S. Hall made the following statement:"To Fechner the soul was not unlike an iceberg which is eight-ninths under the water's surface or threshold out in a denser and darker medium..." (p.
Jeffry Ricker wrote:
So again, does anyone have Hall's book? I thought I had it, but it
turned out that I have Hall's 1923 book (Life Confessions of a
Psychologist).
One interesting side-issue that we are running into is the lack of
primary sources that are available online. Google is
Ken Steele wrote:
This aside is to point out the importance of projects like Chris
Green's PsychClassics site http://psychclassics.yorku.ca/ where
one can find such original material. Google can find you a link to
that site but it is Chris that is putting in the expertise and sweat
to
On May 25, 2006, at 4:47 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:No problem. I'll request it through our friendly interlibrary loan service. All it takes is patience. It's hard to be patient when so much is at stake!! I now know how Eisenhower felt on June 6, 1944!I would have requested it through our
If anyone's interested, there's an excellent review of the history of the
evolution-creation wars in U.S. courts and classrooms available in the
current new England Journal of Medicine. Uncharacteristically, it's free.
It's at:
http://content.nejm.org/cgi/reprint/354/21/2277.pdf
(No, it
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