- Forwarded message from Naslund, Steve snasl...@medline.com -
From: Naslund, Steve snasl...@medline.com
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2012 16:44:47 -0600
To: na...@nanog.org
Subject: RE: [tor-talk] William was raided for running a Tor exit node. Please
help if you can.
A lot of guys have the
Hi!
On Fri, Nov 30, 2012 at 2:09 PM, Naslund, Steve snasl...@medline.com wrote:
Remember, they did not raid the Tor exit node. They raided the home of
the guy running the Tor exit node. Way different.
I can probably explain that. We were running a Tor exit node in
Slovenia (neighboring
Hi!
On Sat, Dec 1, 2012 at 12:29 AM, Mitar mmi...@gmail.com wrote:
It might be that in this case of a guy from Austria he didn't know
that it raid is for Tor node but he thought that it might be for
something else and just later on discovered that. Or that they simply
didn't listen to or
OK, I get it. I think my BS detector is set to high today. I am just
really suspicious that this guy that runs an large ISP can't at least
wait until there are charges before all the uproar. I think if the cops
came and seized my home PCs right now I would probably give them the
time to look at
I might be reading this the wrong way but it looked to me like the cops
raided his home and the Tor server is hosted off site with an ISP. That
is what is bugging me so much. The cops raided his house, not the
location of the server. If they had tracked the server by its IP it
would have led to
- Original Message -
From: Barry Shein
Sent: 12/01/12 12:48 AM
To: Joakim Aronius
Subject: Re: [tor-talk] William was raided for running a Tor exit node. Please
help if you can.
On November 30, 2012 at 08:18 joa...@aronius.se (Joakim Aronius) wrote: I
am all for being anonymous on
If he is claiming that the traffic to the forum came through the Tor
node, that IP would lead them to the hosting company of the Tor node.
Not his residence. If they had an IP that led to his home, that would
have to mean that the traffic did not come from his Tor node at the ISP.
I suppose you
PROCEDURE FOR SEIZURE OF COMPUTERS AND RELATED DEVICES
This search warrant covers and controls the procedure for searching: (1)
electronic or computer devices, related equipment or media which has been
authorized to be seized pursuant to this warrant on the basis that it is
contraband or a
Not only that, but the list of people who proclaimed their innocence only
to be proven guilty is very long. I can't vouch for countries outside of
the USA, but here at least we don't get subpoenas on a whim. They are
usually part of a very long drawn-out investigation, and they usually are
On 11/30/12 5:15 PM, Naslund, Steve wrote:
Well, in that case I am really worried that the cops might charge
me with a crime. They took my computers and are looking at them. I did
not do anything wrong but just in case they decide to charge me with a
crime, please send me some money.
As
On 1/12/2012 10:49 AM, Naslund, Steve wrote:
If he is claiming that the traffic to the forum came through the Tor
node, that IP would lead them to the hosting company of the Tor node.
Not his residence. If they had an IP that led to his home, that would
have to mean that the traffic did not
As much as I'm not sure I want to add to this, and while I recognize that this
is not the USA, do recall that in my own country of the USA, where the right to
justice is explicit in the constitution, it is routinely ignored by judges who
say that they run courts of law, not of justice. I'll
The BBC has an article about a similar issue on a Tor exit node in Austria:
Austrian police raid privacy network over child porn
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-20554788
##
Austrian police have seized servers that were part of a global anonymous
browsing system, after images showing child
Example of an actual warrant:
https://www.eff.org/sites/default/files/filenode/inresearchBC/EXHIBIT-A.pdf
Please also keep in mind, if it's relevant, that *no warrant* is required for
data that is stored by a third-party. Data on a server, TOR or otherwise,
would by definition be data
The BBC has an article about a similar issue on a Tor exit node in Austria:
Austrian police raid privacy network over child porn
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-20554788
actually it is not a similar case but the case of William W. that
BBC reported. Though with some mistakes: the servers
On Sat, 01 Dec 2012 16:00:00 +0100
Fabio Pietrosanti (naif) li...@infosecurity.ch wrote:
This would probably be something *very valuable* for any Tor Exit Node
maintainer if Tor software would provide such kind of facility to
facilitate:
- understanding of a third party
- drive the
On Fri, 30 Nov 2012 20:42:45 -0600
Joe Btfsplk joebtfs...@gmx.com wrote:
[Load of US-centred rubbish]
Seriously, you need to realise that most of the world is not the
States, and things work differently over here. Some parts of Europe are
safer than others, and some (including UK) are
On 12/1/2012 10:10 AM, Jean-Francois Mezei wrote:
If Tor servers are just glorified routers then they could be considered
more as transit providers and not responsible for content transiting
through them.
However, if a transit service goes out of its way to hide the identity
of the sender of a
On 12/1/2012 1:28 PM, Anne P. Mitchell, Esq. wrote:
Please also keep in mind, if it's relevant, that *no warrant* is required for
data that is stored by a third-party. Data on a server, TOR or otherwise,
would by definition be data that is stored by a third party. Which means that
if there
On 12/1/2012 4:22 PM, Julian Yon wrote:
On Fri, 30 Nov 2012 20:42:45 -0600
Joe Btfsplk joebtfs...@gmx.com wrote:
How much is 10,000 EU anyway - $100 USD?
I knew I shouldn't have written that - too many people don't get satire
/ comedic sarcasm.
___
- Forwarded message from Jay Ashworth j...@baylink.com -
From: Jay Ashworth j...@baylink.com
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2012 14:42:11 -0500 (EST)
To: NANOG na...@nanog.org
Subject: Re: William was raided for running a Tor exit node. Please help if
you can.
X-Mailer: Zimbra 6.0.9_GA_2686
- Forwarded message from Jay Ashworth j...@baylink.com -
From: Jay Ashworth j...@baylink.com
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2012 14:44:16 -0500 (EST)
To: NANOG na...@nanog.org
Subject: Re: William was raided for running a Tor exit node. Please help if
you can.
X-Mailer: Zimbra 6.0.9_GA_2686
- Forwarded message from George Herbert george.herb...@gmail.com -
From: George Herbert george.herb...@gmail.com
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2012 11:50:57 -0800
To: Tom Beecher tbeec...@localnet.com, NANOG na...@nanog.org
Subject: Re: William was raided for running a Tor exit node. Please help if
- Forwarded message from Tom Beecher tbeec...@localnet.com -
From: Tom Beecher tbeec...@localnet.com
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2012 14:58:25 -0500
To: George Herbert george.herb...@gmail.com
Cc: NANOG na...@nanog.org
Subject: Re: William was raided for running a Tor exit node. Please help if
- Forwarded message from Naslund, Steve snasl...@medline.com -
From: Naslund, Steve snasl...@medline.com
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2012 14:00:50 -0600
To: NANOG na...@nanog.org
Subject: RE: William was raided for running a Tor exit node. Please help if
you can.
I think service providers
- Forwarded message from George Herbert george.herb...@gmail.com -
From: George Herbert george.herb...@gmail.com
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2012 12:06:28 -0800
To: Tom Beecher tbeec...@localnet.com
Cc: NANOG na...@nanog.org
Subject: Re: William was raided for running a Tor exit node. Please help
- Forwarded message from Naslund, Steve snasl...@medline.com -
From: Naslund, Steve snasl...@medline.com
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2012 14:42:47 -0600
To: George Herbert george.herb...@gmail.com
Cc: NANOG na...@nanog.org
Subject: RE: William was raided for running a Tor exit node. Please help if
- Forwarded message from Naslund, Steve snasl...@medline.com -
From: Naslund, Steve snasl...@medline.com
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2012 14:59:18 -0600
To: George Herbert george.herb...@gmail.com
Cc: NANOG na...@nanog.org
Subject: RE: William was raided for running a Tor exit node. Please help if
- Forwarded message from George Herbert george.herb...@gmail.com -
From: George Herbert george.herb...@gmail.com
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2012 13:17:46 -0800
To: Naslund, Steve snasl...@medline.com
Cc: NANOG na...@nanog.org
Subject: Re: William was raided for running a Tor exit node. Please help
- Forwarded message from Julian Yon jul...@yon.org.uk -
From: Julian Yon jul...@yon.org.uk
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2012 21:08:51 +
To: tor-talk@lists.torproject.org
Subject: Re: [tor-talk] William was raided for running a Tor exit node.
Please help if you can.
X-Mailer: Claws Mail
On Fri, 30 Nov 2012 08:24:42 +, Eugen Leitl wrote:
...
On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 11:18 AM, Tom Beecher tbeec...@localnet.com wrote:
Assuming it's true, it was bound to happen. Running anything , TOR or
otherwise, that allows strangers to do whatever they want is just folly.
Such as, say,
- Forwarded message from Michael Froomkin - U.Miami School of Law
froom...@law.miami.edu -
From: Michael Froomkin - U.Miami School of Law froom...@law.miami.edu
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2012 18:07:48 -0500 (EST)
To: Naslund, Steve snasl...@medline.com
Cc: NANOG na...@nanog.org
Subject: RE:
- Forwarded message from Naslund, Steve snasl...@medline.com -
From: Naslund, Steve snasl...@medline.com
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2012 17:39:21 -0600
To: NANOG na...@nanog.org
Subject: RE: William was raided for running a Tor exit node. Please help if
you can.
You are correct about most
- Forwarded message from Michael Froomkin - U.Miami School of Law
froom...@law.miami.edu -
From: Michael Froomkin - U.Miami School of Law froom...@law.miami.edu
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2012 19:29:09 -0500 (EST)
To: Miles Fidelman mfidel...@meetinghouse.net
Cc: NANOG na...@nanog.org
Subject:
- Forwarded message from Michael Froomkin - U.Miami School of Law
froom...@law.miami.edu -
From: Michael Froomkin - U.Miami School of Law froom...@law.miami.edu
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2012 19:29:46 -0500 (EST)
To: Naslund, Steve snasl...@medline.com
Cc: NANOG na...@nanog.org
Subject: RE:
- Forwarded message from Kyle Creyts kyle.cre...@gmail.com -
From: Kyle Creyts kyle.cre...@gmail.com
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2012 17:40:25 -0800
To: Jim Mercer j...@reptiles.org
Cc: na...@nanog.org
Subject: Re: William was raided for running a Tor exit node. Please help if
you can.
On
- Forwarded message from Owen DeLong o...@delong.com -
From: Owen DeLong o...@delong.com
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2012 19:22:48 -0800
To: Tom Beecher tbeec...@localnet.com
Cc: NANOG na...@nanog.org
Subject: Re: William was raided for running a Tor exit node. Please help if
you can.
Just thought I'd Add my 2c here. Limiting my response Only regarding
home Wireless access in the US. I was involved in a case with just
this situation.
According to my lawyer there is no consensus on who is responsible for
wifi. Every State has different laws each one is just a vague.
In
Julian Yon jul...@yon.org.uk wrote:
This story has now hit Ars Technica:
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/11/tor-operator-charged-for-child-porn-transmitted-over-his-servers/
There doesn't seem to be any indication that he has been
charged with anything.
Usually raids happen to collect
iirc in the Netherlands you're not responsible for illegal actions
commited through your Wifi.
In fact if you're a household and illegal activities are made through
your own internet by one of the household members the state has to prove
wich member it was to prosecute. It is not possbile to
- Forwarded message from Rich Kulawiec r...@gsp.org -
From: Rich Kulawiec r...@gsp.org
Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2012 07:58:53 -0500
To: na...@nanog.org
Subject: Re: William was raided for running a Tor exit node. Please help if
you can.
User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14)
On Thu, Nov
On November 30, 2012 at 08:18 joa...@aronius.se (Joakim Aronius) wrote:
I am all for being anonymous on the net but I seriously believe that we
still need to enforce the law when it comes to serious felonies like child
pr0n, organized crime etc, we can't give them a free pass just by
-Original Message-
From: Rich Kulawiec [mailto:r...@gsp.org]
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2012 6:59 AM
To: na...@nanog.org
Subject: Re: William was raided for running a Tor exit node. Please
help if you can.
On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 08:04:02AM -0500, Chris quoted (William):
Yes, it
WAIT A SECOND HERE!?!?
I just read below that this guy runs a large ISP in Austria. I thought
his Tor node was hosted with an external provider. If he runs the ISP,
why would he not host his own server in house? I suppose there are
reasons but I can't think of one, especially if you feel so
On 11/30/2012 04:01 PM, Naslund, Steve wrote:
I am a little concerned that this guy keeps a safe deposit box with a burner
phone and cash around. Is he a CIA agent? :)
Anyone who DOESN'T have such things stashed away somewhere is, IMHO,
incredibly naive and taking on quite a large amount
As a network professional do I not have a duty to protect my companies
network from unauthorized access within my ability to do so? I think I
do. If you lost all of your credit card and identity data because I
left an open wifi hotspot on my network would you have a liability case?
I sure think
OK, there must be a lot more paranoid people out there than I thought
there were. I personally don't have a runaway kit stashed away. I
will get right on that. So when that mouth breather cop won't believe
you are innocent, your answer is to grab your stuff and go on the lamb
for awhile? I am
From: Jimmy Hess [mailto:mysi...@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2012 3:47 PM
To: William Herrin
Cc: NANOG list
Subject: Re: William was raided for running a Tor exit node. Please
help if you can.
On 11/29/12, William Herrin b...@herrin.us wrote:
If the computer at IP:port:timestamp
When is the last time you were arrested, or even in a legal situation
which required your attention as a defendant? It seems pretty straight
forward, but I can assure you this guy is getting very little sleep and
his heart is beating out of his chest. Granted this entire situation is
taking place
I didn't say anything about trying to run away. That probably won't
accomplish a whole lot in the long run. But when all of your bank
accounts and credit cards are frozen, and your house is a crime scene,
at least you have the means to rent a hotel room, contact
family/lawyers, etc.
And
Guess who has power over the networks and Internet. We do and power corrupts
us too. There are some bad guy ISPs and engineers out there too. Just because
you are running a Tor server to allow for privacy protection does not mean
you were never doing anything illegal through it. I know this
On 1/12/2012 9:02 AM, Naslund, Steve wrote:
OK, there must be a lot more paranoid people out there than I thought
there were. I personally don't have a runaway kit stashed away. I
will get right on that. So when that mouth breather cop won't believe
you are innocent, your answer is to grab
The cops don't have to present evidence until there is a court case.
Since this guy was not arrested, they have apparently not decided to
charge him yet.
You clearly do not understand the general procedure stated in European
crime laws. In most EU countries, the police cannot arrest you, after
On Fri, 2012-11-30 at 16:31 -0600, Naslund, Steve wrote:
Guess who has power over the networks and Internet. We do and power
corrupts us too. There are some bad guy ISPs and engineers out there
too. Just because you are running a Tor server to allow for privacy
protection does not mean you
I forgot - did someone say they keep cash extra phone in a safe
deposit box (pre paid or contract? Contract phone is no use in a police
crack down)?
If a deposit box, judge could freeze that too, so better hide it in
someone else's house. And what are they gonna say about that? I need
to
- Forwarded message from Chris cal...@gmail.com -
From: Chris cal...@gmail.com
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2012 08:04:02 -0500
To: NANOG list na...@nanog.org
Subject: William was raided for running a Tor exit node. Please help if you
can.
I'm not William and a friend pasted a link on IRC
Has anyone checked to see whether this is another scam? If not, send me some
too.
From: Eugen Leitl eu...@leitl.org
To: tor-talk@lists.torproject.org
Sent: Thu, November 29, 2012 7:59:12 AM
Subject: [tor-talk] William was raided for running a Tor exit node.
Hi,
I think it isn't scam, because William has contacted the
torservers.net team, too (in german, not asking for money, but for a
recommendation for a lawyer in .at).
Best regards
morphium
2012/11/29 David Carlson carlson...@sbcglobal.net:
Has anyone checked to see whether this is another
Just give us a few hours, we are working on some articles, proof, etc
David Carlson schrieb:
Has anyone checked to see whether this is another scam? If not, send me some
too.
From: Eugen Leitleu...@leitl.org
To: tor-talk@lists.torproject.org
Sent: Thu,
perhaps we can ask William for his exit node fingerprint or IP to verify?
I'd like to make a donation if I can confirm the message.
On Nov 29, 2012 6:40 AM, David Carlson carlson...@sbcglobal.net wrote:
Has anyone checked to see whether this is another scam? If not, send me
some
too.
On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 02:59:00PM +0100, eu...@leitl.org wrote 2.6K bytes in
75 lines about:
: Subject: William was raided for running a Tor exit node. Please help if you
: can.
Thanks for forwarding this Eugen. For the record, we have
- Forwarded message from Barry Shein b...@world.std.com -
From: Barry Shein b...@world.std.com
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2012 11:17:27 -0500
To: NANOG list na...@nanog.org
Subject: Re: William was raided for running a Tor exit node. Please help if
you can.
X-Mailer: VM 7.07 under Emacs
- Forwarded message from Emily Ozols win...@team-metro.net -
From: Emily Ozols win...@team-metro.net
Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2012 01:14:08 +1100
To: na...@nanog.org
Subject: Re: William was raided for running a Tor exit node. Please help if
you can.
Hi,
I gotta ask and I'm sure
- Forwarded message from Naslund, Steve snasl...@medline.com -
From: Naslund, Steve snasl...@medline.com
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2012 13:19:19 -0600
To: na...@nanog.org
Subject: RE: William was raided for running a Tor exit node. Please help if
you can.
I think the best analogy I would
William will be posting a statement soon which will explain everything
that's happened and give a detailed account of events, along with evidence
including pictures showing the aftermath of the raid in his apartment, as
well as copies of the warrant and inventory of seized items.
He runs a large
- Forwarded message from Scott Berkman sc...@sberkman.net -
From: Scott Berkman sc...@sberkman.net
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2012 14:34:33 -0500
To: 'Naslund, Steve' snasl...@medline.com, na...@nanog.org
Subject: RE: William was raided for running a Tor exit node. Please help if
you can.
- Forwarded message from elijah wright e...@stderr.org -
From: elijah wright e...@stderr.org
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2012 13:38:51 -0600
To: Eugen Leitl eu...@leitl.org
Cc: na...@nanog.org
Subject: Re: William was raided for running a Tor exit node. Please help if
you can.
We had a guy
Running an exit node from home DSL or Cable is bad idea. One must look
for a Tor friendly ISP and have balls made of steel!
--SiNA
On 11/29/2012 11:31 AM, Eugen Leitl wrote:
People will spend time and money securing their home wireless so their
neighbor can't steal their internet, but
I've been given the fingerprints for the tor nodes ran by William to help
verify the story.
ZhangPoland1 (id: FA48 6415 B86D 28CD 047D 10F7 6768 E4E8 8A18 2F71)
ZhangUkraine1 (id: FBFB C419 3459 C73D 001F 3303 8CCD 6EE8 CFEC 27F7)
ZhangDomination (id: 58FF 4431 2066 3861 23B2 8491 4028 DA60 3C14
On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 1:43 PM, SiNA Rabbani s...@redteam.io wrote:
Running an exit node from home DSL or Cable is bad idea. One must look
for a Tor friendly ISP and have balls made of steel!
--SiNA
That may be so in some jurisdictions, but not in all. If my memory services
me correct,
On Thu, 29 Nov 2012 11:43:03 -0800
SiNA Rabbani s...@redteam.io wrote:
Running an exit node from home DSL or Cable is bad idea. One must look
for a Tor friendly ISP and have balls made of steel!
That's not universally true. Here in the UK I'd say it's risky, which
is why I run with a fairly
You can find the full interview and more information at
http://raided4tor.cryto.net/
On 29 November 2012 22:44, Julian Yon jul...@yon.org.uk wrote:
This story has now hit Ars Technica:
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/11/tor-operator-charged-for-child-porn-transmitted-over-his-servers/
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