Re: letters that "complete the rectangle" in Indic scripts

2013-09-19 Thread Ilya Zakharevich
On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 02:35:52AM -0700, Stephan Stiller wrote: > It's occurring to me that the modern analogue to the quirky > grammarian completing the table for the sake of symmetry would be > the guy on the Unicode mailing list wanting to add characters to the > Standard merely to complete a p

Thai as Indic (was: letters that "complete the rectangle" in Indic scripts)

2013-09-19 Thread Richard Wordingham
On Thu, 19 Sep 2013 10:42:43 +0200 Philippe Verdy wrote: > So **within the UCS**, the Thai script is not an Indic script. There > was so many existing documents encoded like in TIS sctandards that > preserving the roundtrop compatibility was judged more essential than > adopting the logical Indic

RE: Code point vs. scalar value

2013-09-19 Thread Whistler, Ken
Stephan Stiller seems unconvinced by the various attempts to explain the situation. Perhaps an authoritative explanation of the textual history might assist. Stephan demands an answer: I want to know why the Glossary claims that surrogate code points are "[r]eserved for use by UTF-16". Reason

Re: Code point vs. scalar value

2013-09-19 Thread Philippe Verdy
2013/9/19 Asmus Freytag > The legacy difference was the existence of UCS-2 in parallel with UTF-16. > Correct. But UCS-2 is still not extinct, eve if it is no longer used for exchanging interoperable plain-text. UCS-2 remains widely used for storing arbitrary data in "strings", without any one o

Re: Code point vs. scalar value

2013-09-19 Thread Asmus Freytag
On 9/19/2013 6:32 AM, Hans Aberg wrote: On 18 Sep 2013, at 04:57, Stephan Stiller wrote: In what way does UTF-16 "use" surrogate code points? An encoding form is a mapping. Let's look at this mapping: • One inputs scalar values (not surrogate code points). • The encoding form

Re: Code point vs. scalar value

2013-09-19 Thread Hans Aberg
On 18 Sep 2013, at 04:57, Stephan Stiller wrote: > In what way does UTF-16 "use" surrogate code points? An encoding form is a > mapping. Let's look at this mapping: > • One inputs scalar values (not surrogate code points). > • The encoding form will output a short sequence of encodin

Re: letters that "complete the rectangle" in Indic scripts

2013-09-19 Thread Daode
Stephan Stiller wrote: |It's occurring to me that the modern analogue to the quirky grammarian |completing the table for the sake of symmetry would be the guy on the |Unicode mailing list wanting to add characters to the Standard merely to |complete a partial list :-) I'd love to take part

Re: letters that "complete the rectangle" in Indic scripts

2013-09-19 Thread Stephan Stiller
As far as I am aware, a proper 'null consonant' has only arisen when it actually represents a glottal stop. There's ㅇ in hangeul ("Hangul"; Korean). Hebrew ע was supposedly first pharyngeal [ʕ], though it's nowadays standardly a glottal stop [ʔ] or null ∅ (and you don't even need need a hiatus

Re: letters that "complete the rectangle" in Indic scripts

2013-09-19 Thread Philippe Verdy
2013/9/19 Richard Wordingham > On Wed, 18 Sep 2013 04:38:05 +0200 > Philippe Verdy wrote: > > > Don't know what you mean here really, but the Indic scripts work at a > > core syllabic C-V level, and in order to fit with real languages, it > > was effectively necessary to fill the holes by invent

Re: letters that "complete the rectangle" in Indic scripts

2013-09-19 Thread Richard Wordingham
On Wed, 18 Sep 2013 04:38:05 +0200 Philippe Verdy wrote: > Don't know what you mean here really, but the Indic scripts work at a > core syllabic C-V level, and in order to fit with real languages, it > was effectively necessary to fill the holes by inventing the implicit > concept of null consonn