Re: [TIC: Tongue in Cheek] Re: IDE oddities (was Re: Error Messages Are Evil)

Mark Wieder wrote: Richard- Thursday, May 15, 2014, 2:34:38 PM, you wrote: On another note, as I promised you last week I did ask Ben if RunRev planned on open-sourcing the On-Rev real-time debugger. He's not sure and will check with Kevin, but he did confirm my hunch that it requires specif

Re: [TIC: Tongue in Cheek] Re: IDE oddities (was Re: Error Messages Are Evil)

Richard- Thursday, May 15, 2014, 2:34:38 PM, you wrote: > On another note, as I promised you last week I did ask Ben if RunRev > planned on open-sourcing the On-Rev real-time debugger. He's not sure > and will check with Kevin, but he did confirm my hunch that it requires > specific sockets open

Re: IDE oddities (was Re: Error Messages Are Evil)

I've never seen any of those things either, but since so many others have, I wonder if there actually might be a problem with the interface. I'd like to be a fly on the wall and watch people use it. On May 16, 2014 5:44:20 PM CDT, Dave Kilroy wrote: >Devin I think you are correct - it's bug

Re: IDE oddities (was Re: Error Messages Are Evil)

Devin I think you are correct - it's buggy rather than an example of weird interface design and shouldn't appear on this list. And for those of you who have never been snagged by Menu Builder this thread gives examples of the kind of things it can do: http://forums.runrev.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1

Re: IDE oddities (was Re: Error Messages Are Evil)

Geometry Manager would be even more useful on mobile since MG doesn't support screen rotation any more. I don't know if Scott is thinking about adding that feature to tmC. I think the menu builder is flat-out weak. It isn't buggy for me, it just isn't very helpful. I guess it's good that I am

Re: IDE oddities (was Re: Error Messages Are Evil)

On May 16, 2014, at 11:14 AM, Charles E Buchwald wrote: > I don't use the Menu Builder much, but I use the Geometry Manager on a > regular basis, and I've found it to be reliable. > I only wish I could use it on mobile. Because I can't, I've written a lot of > my own geometry management scrip

Re: IDE oddities (was Re: Error Messages Are Evil)

I don't use the Menu Builder much, but I use the Geometry Manager on a regular basis, and I've found it to be reliable. I only wish I could use it on mobile. Because I can't, I've written a lot of my own geometry management scripts. In general, the better feature parity we have across all platfor

Re: IDE oddities (was Re: Error Messages Are Evil)

J. Landman Gay wrote: > I wonder if you're talking about the two versions of LiveCode that > had a bug. It chopped off half of every menu template script. > That's been fixed now. When discussing things that don't work it's VERY helpful to note the bug report number. If a bug hasn't yet been

Re: IDE oddities (was Re: Error Messages Are Evil)

I wonder if you're talking about the two versions of LiveCode that had a bug. It chopped off half of every menu template script. That's been fixed now. On May 16, 2014 11:16:46 AM CDT, Dave Kilroy wrote: >Hi Devin > >Sorry to be vague, didn't think I needed to say how unreliable it the >men

Re: IDE oddities (was Re: Error Messages Are Evil)

On May 16, 2014, at 10:16 AM, Dave Kilroy wrote: > Hi Devin > > Sorry to be vague, didn't think I needed to say how unreliable it the menu > tool is - it has bitten me in the past and plenty of others too. What > usually happens is that you set up your menus and then when you reopen the > stac

Re: IDE oddities (was Re: Error Messages Are Evil)

How so? I use menu builder as a quick way to block out menus and haven't had any trouble (except for the versions with a bug that got fixed.) It does need updating to include the new tag features though. Do you mean the interface isn't clear? On May 16, 2014 10:12:07 AM CDT, Dave Kilroy wr

Re: IDE oddities (was Re: Error Messages Are Evil)

Hi Devin Sorry to be vague, didn't think I needed to say how unreliable it the menu tool is - it has bitten me in the past and plenty of others too. What usually happens is that you set up your menus and then when you reopen the stack half of the entries will have vanished, or some will be disable

Re: IDE oddities (was Re: Error Messages Are Evil)

On May 16, 2014, at 9:12 AM, Dave Kilroy wrote: > I don't know whether the Menu Builder falls into the 'IDE oddity' category > but it sure it a liability! > Dave, Anything specific, or do you just find it confusing in general? Devin Devin Asay Office of Digital Humanities Brigham Young Univ

Re: IDE oddities (was Re: Error Messages Are Evil)

I don't know whether the Menu Builder falls into the 'IDE oddity' category but it sure it a liability! - "Some are born coders, some achieve coding, and some have coding thrust upon them." - William Shakespeare & Hugh Senior -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.27830

Re: IDE oddities (was Re: Error Messages Are Evil)

Let's see - on the DG, Hanson and I had a brief conversation, that was similar to what you were describing to the list, then you tossed FIX: into the mix, so I'm going to have to take a look at, and write a FIX: for DG's For OR/RO, all I can say is "whatever". Let's fix the name of RO so it doesn

Re: IDE oddities (was Re: Error Messages Are Evil)

You're right, the results aren't predictable, as you've seen, since object-level effects are modified when compounded by an effect applied to a containing group. Color sometimes plays factor too. But realistically, there aren't that many results that are useful. Generally, I've found the structur

Re: IDE oddities (was Re: Error Messages Are Evil)

Devin Asay wrote > [snip] > Yes, I agree that sometimes concepts are too complex to describe in a > short, neat label. But in the interface, perhaps the menu could show the > effect of the ink visually, or maybe there could be a help button that > would pop up a list explaining the inks in simple l

Re: IDE oddities (was Re: Error Messages Are Evil)

Yeah, I was aware of that, but never tried it. I’m afraid I’d get very confused. I should be brave. Also, I’m greedy and want both. I’ll try what you suggest and see if that is too greedy. Dar Dar Scott Consulting d...@swcp.com Helping LiveCode programers with Externals and Libraries On Ma

Re: Community Contributions (was IDE oddities (was Re: Error Messages Are Evil))

Thanks for your considered and thorough answer, Richard. As a footnote, I posted another little plugin I made. I've been working with HTML a lot, and the itch I've been scratching with it is having to switch between HTMLtext and styledText, and sometimes look up LC-legal HTML entities. The lcHT

Re: IDE oddities (was Re: Error Messages Are Evil)

On 5/15/14, 10:35 AM, Devin Asay wrote: The "locked" of the properties palette for each object is separate and persistent. From what I can see, cards and stacks selected from the app browser will open a locked inspector (anything in the left-hand pane.) Objects on a card (anything in the righ

Re: IDE oddities (was Re: Error Messages Are Evil)

On 5/15/14, 12:59 PM, Dar Scott wrote: It is awkward to move off the keyboard while editing a script to hover over a control in the Object Inspector waiting for it to take so I can see the name of the property. You can select go the the General pane in preferences, look for "Property labels ar

Re: Community Contributions (was IDE oddities (was Re: Error Messages Are Evil))

Charles E Buchwald wrote: > Mike, I did follow the whole "[Off] Cool Plugins thread". I was a > bit disappointed that it kind of petered out after several people > expressed an interest in helping. I wouldn't be too disappointed. Things ebb and flow; we all have many things to do. But two ver

Re: [TIC: Tongue in Cheek] IDE oddities (was Re: Error Messages Are Evil)

On 16 May 2014, at 8:34 am, Richard Gaskin wrote: > On another note, as I promised you last week I did ask Ben if RunRev planned > on open-sourcing the On-Rev real-time debugger. He's not sure and will check > with Kevin, but he did confirm my hunch that it requires specific sockets > open on

Re: [TIC: Tongue in Cheek] Re: IDE oddities (was Re: Error Messages Are Evil)

Well, always good to anticipate future-proofing. :) On another note, as I promised you last week I did ask Ben if RunRev planned on open-sourcing the On-Rev real-time debugger. He's not sure and will check with Kevin, but he did confirm my hunch that it requires specific sockets open on the s

Re: IDE oddities (was Re: Error Messages Are Evil)

Mike Kerner wrote: This is similar to a discussion I had earlier this week about fixing the issues I found in DataGrid. I think I missed something. Did you submit fixes with those? If you did, please add a "FIX:" prefix to the report titled so they can be flagged. However, what do we do

[TIC: Tongue in Cheek] Re: IDE oddities (was Re: Error Messages Are Evil)

On 15/05/2014 21:29, Richard Gaskin wrote: As an example of this workflow in action, we have a simple fix here: Since the code change is comprised of adding only five characters to a comparison string and can be easily seen in the Message Box,

Community Contributions (was IDE oddities (was Re: Error Messages Are Evil))

Mike, I did follow the whole "[Off] Cool Plugins thread". I was a bit disappointed that it kind of petered out after several people expressed an interest in helping. I did propose that the forum for plugins and extensions be split in two. My thought being that developing either is very different

Community Contributions (was IDE oddities (was Re: Error Messages Are Evil))

Mike, I did follow the whole "[Off] Cool Plugins thread". I was a bit disappointed that it kind of petered out after several people expressed an interest in helping. I did propose that the forum for plugins and extensions be split in two. My thought being that developing either is very different

Re: IDE oddities (was Re: Error Messages Are Evil)

This is similar to a discussion I had earlier this week about fixing the issues I found in DataGrid. However, what do we do about OnRev, especially if we are going to work on it as a group of sorts? On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 4:29 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Charles wrote: > > OK, so what do we ha

Re: IDE oddities (was Re: Error Messages Are Evil)

Charles wrote: > OK, so what do we have to do, as a community of users, to get > RevOnline working again? Fix it. :) My Community meeting this morning with Ben focused almost exclusively on RevOnline. It's true that LiveCode is inherently problematic to attempt to integrate into tools like

Re: IDE oddities (was Re: Error Messages Are Evil)

Look at the [Off] Cool Plugins thread. -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good."

Re: IDE oddities (was Re: Error Messages Are Evil)

Richard is heading up this effort. It is being discussed in another thread. Volunteers have been...volunteering. On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 2:40 PM, Charles E Buchwald wrote: > OK, so what do we have to do, as a community of users, to get RevOnline > working again? This seems like a good way to e

Re: IDE oddities (was Re: Error Messages Are Evil)

OK, so what do we have to do, as a community of users, to get RevOnline working again? This seems like a good way to encourage and coordinate community participation. Particularly so because we are talking about LC code, outside of the GitHub ecosystem, and outside of the IDE. And because it's b

Re: IDE oddities (was Re: Error Messages Are Evil)

+1 On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 1:59 PM, Dar Scott wrote: > This one might be just me. > > It is awkward to move off the keyboard while editing a script to hover > over a control in the Object Inspector waiting for it to take so I can see > the name of the property. > > On May 15, 2014, at 8:42 AM,

Re: IDE oddities (was Re: Error Messages Are Evil)

I’d call this one more than an oddity. This is a bug. It goes along with the one about how no window can be higher than the icon bar even if it is on a display placed high and the bar is not even on that display. Dar On May 15, 2014, at 9:23 AM, Mike Kerner wrote: > And another: > If you

Re: IDE oddities (was Re: Error Messages Are Evil)

Most of the LC-coded portions of LC are not part of GitHub. This also includes dataGrids, which have several issues I discovered earlier in the week. On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 12:07 PM, Devin Asay wrote: > > On May 15, 2014, at 9:57 AM, Charles E Buchwald > wrote: > > > Mike, this is the part t

Re: IDE oddities (was Re: Error Messages Are Evil)

Charles, I was not aware of your add-on. Your add-on, like numerous other add-ons, have not made it to the collective consciousness, yet. That's exactly why we're talking about taking the revOnline project broader and trying to get it organized and improved, so that it becomes a catalog of everyt

Re: IDE oddities (was Re: Error Messages Are Evil)

It's persistent between launches of LC. The case in question is dealing with the dataGrid, because there are issues with the DG, which I detailed in a bug report that I filed this week, in particular related to resizing a header. Because a DG is an amalgam of numerous LC objects, issues can quick

Re: IDE oddities (was Re: Error Messages Are Evil)

This one might be just me. It is awkward to move off the keyboard while editing a script to hover over a control in the Object Inspector waiting for it to take so I can see the name of the property. On May 15, 2014, at 8:42 AM, Devin Asay wrote: > Thanks for the responses folks. Keep them com

Re: IDE oddities (was Re: Error Messages Are Evil)

On 15/05/14 17:42, Devin Asay wrote: Thanks for the responses folks. Keep them coming, and I'll post a summary. Here's another one of mine: Names of blendLevel inks: Whaaa? What do those things even mean? Yes: a set of names that had some sort of connexion with the effects produced would ma

Re: IDE oddities (was Re: Error Messages Are Evil)

On May 15, 2014, at 10:00 AM, "J. Landman Gay" wrote: > There's a small view of two overlapping images at the bottom of the inspector > that shows what the ink will do. Well, I'll be d**ned. How many times have I looked at that, and it never registered until now. What a funny thing the hum

Re: IDE oddities (was Re: Error Messages Are Evil)

On May 15, 2014, at 9:57 AM, Charles E Buchwald wrote: > Mike, this is the part that I don't get about open source... yet. I guess we > don't have the community structures to handle it. > > I mean, I've made that (free) plugin to handle this specific problem. > "lcMover" moves stacks/windows

Re: IDE oddities (was Re: Error Messages Are Evil)

There's a small view of two overlapping images at the bottom of the inspector that shows what the ink will do. The names of the inks are the same as the ones that Photoshop and many other image processing programs use, so that's a tough call. Specialists might complain if they are changed.

Re: IDE oddities (was Re: Error Messages Are Evil)

Mike, this is the part that I don't get about open source... yet. I guess we don't have the community structures to handle it. I mean, I've made that (free) plugin to handle this specific problem. "lcMover" moves stacks/windows around, whether they are off-screen or not. I even added an option

Re: IDE oddities (was Re: Error Messages Are Evil)

On May 15, 2014, at 9:16 AM, Mike Kerner wrote: > Whoops! Wait, a second, here's another: > The "locked" of the properties palette for each object is separate and > persistent. This is really great when you are working with a component or > object that is installed by another developer, and w

Re: IDE oddities (was Re: Error Messages Are Evil)

Devin Asay wrote: Thanks for the responses folks. Keep them coming, and I'll post a summary. It may be helpful if you'd post your summary to the IDE Contributors Forum: Here's another one of mine: Names of blendLevel inks: Whaaa? What do those t

Re: IDE oddities (was Re: Error Messages Are Evil)

On May 15, 2014, at 9:12 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Devin Asay wrote: >> Thanks for the responses folks. Keep them coming, and I'll post a summary. > > It may be helpful if you'd post your summary to the IDE Contributors Forum: > > > >> Here's a

Re: IDE oddities (was Re: Error Messages Are Evil)

Whoops! Wait, a second, here's another: The "locked" of the properties palette for each object is separate and persistent. This is really great when you are working with a component or object that is installed by another developer, and want to look at two of the developer's objects side-by-side a

Re: IDE oddities (was Re: Error Messages Are Evil)

And another: If you have your lappie hooked to two monitors at work, and you use both monitors, and then you go home, guess what happens to windows, especially on a Mac, where you are using multiple workspaces? That's right, the windows, even the LC development windows, are off-screen somewhere at

Re: IDE oddities (was Re: Error Messages Are Evil)

Try resizing something, or using the alignment tools. I just ran into this, again, this week, when I was trying to fix a vertical line. The line is too short, so I changed the length. The line lengthened, UPWARD. So I then changed the top of the line, thinking that would help me except the bott

Re: IDE oddities (was Re: Error Messages Are Evil)

Thanks for the responses folks. Keep them coming, and I'll post a summary. Here's another one of mine: Names of blendLevel inks: Whaaa? What do those things even mean? Devin Devin Asay Office of Digital Humanities Brigham Young University ___ use-li

Re: IDE oddities (was Re: Error Messages Are Evil)

Devin- The contextual menu that pops up when you right-click on a control is different from the one that pops up when you right-click a stack, which is different from the one that pops up in the Application Browser, which is different from the one that pops up in the Project Browser. Drives. Me.

Re: IDE oddities (was Re: Error Messages Are Evil)

On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 10:47 AM, Dar Scott wrote: > No sleep. I was getting confused with grouping a group. It can be done, > but I don’t know how with the IDE. Group two things, and delete one. I've stumbled across *empty* groups hanging around in my stacks . . . -- Dr. Richard E. Hawki

Re: IDE oddities (was Re: Error Messages Are Evil)

On 5/14/14, 1:04 PM, Devin Asay wrote: I'd like to keep the focus of this thread on things in the LiveCode IDE that are odd, inconsistent, or confusing to the new user. I know there are a hundred things like that. Problem is, I'm so used to working around them that I can't think of what they a

Re: IDE oddities (was Re: Error Messages Are Evil)

On May 14, 2014, at 3:31 PM, Alejandro Tejada wrote: > Actually, new users wants that LiveCode IDE > looks and behave as their own favorite > software... > > So a Graphic Designer wants that Livecode looks > and behave like Photoshop, Ilustrator, Flash, etc. > > A MS Office needs that LiveCod

Re: IDE oddities (was Re: Error Messages Are Evil)

Actually, new users wants that LiveCode IDE looks and behave as their own favorite software... So a Graphic Designer wants that Livecode looks and behave like Photoshop, Ilustrator, Flash, etc. A MS Office needs that LiveCode adopt all the conventions of these products... The 3D artist wants...

Re: IDE oddities (was Re: Error Messages Are Evil)

On May 14, 2014, at 12:41 PM, Peter Haworth wrote: > One thing that confused the heck out of me at the start is how the menu bar > changes depending on whether a stack or the script editor is in front (this > is on OSX). > > When in the script editor, the menu bar shows File, Edit, Debug, Hand

Re: IDE oddities (was Re: Error Messages Are Evil)

One thing that confused the heck out of me at the start is how the menu bar changes depending on whether a stack or the script editor is in front (this is on OSX). When in the script editor, the menu bar shows File, Edit, Debug, Handler, Window, Help and the File menu has no entries to open a stac

Re: IDE oddities (was Re: Error Messages Are Evil)

On May 14, 2014, at 10:26 AM, Dar Scott wrote: > > On May 14, 2014, at 10:00 AM, Devin Asay wrote: >> Closely related: Why are lock size and lock location controlled by a single >> property? > > Good question. The good news is that it is now possible to group a single > object. Thanks f

Re: IDE oddities (was Re: Error Messages Are Evil)

Yeah, I goofed. No sleep. I was getting confused with grouping a group. It can be done, but I don’t know how with the IDE. Dar On May 14, 2014, at 11:35 AM, Richmond wrote: > On 14/05/14 19:26, Dar Scott wrote: >> On May 14, 2014, at 10:00 AM, Devin Asay wrote: >>> Closely related: Why a

Re: IDE oddities (was Re: Error Messages Are Evil)

On 14/05/14 19:26, Dar Scott wrote: On May 14, 2014, at 10:00 AM, Devin Asay wrote: Closely related: Why are lock size and lock location controlled by a single property? Good question. The good news is that it is now possible to group a single object. What? I grouped a single object with

Re: IDE oddities (was Re: Error Messages Are Evil)

On May 14, 2014, at 10:00 AM, Devin Asay wrote: > Closely related: Why are lock size and lock location controlled by a single > property? Good question. The good news is that it is now possible to group a single object. Dar Scott Libraries and Externals d...@swcp.com __

IDE oddities (was Re: Error Messages Are Evil)

On May 13, 2014, at 9:57 PM, Alejandro Tejada wrote: > Richard Gaskin wrote >> [snip] >> These are basic tasks we should expect to be done efficiently and >> without error. They require no celebration. Don't even mention them >> unless something goes wrong. Otherwise, as long as the compute