Re: Running a huge wicket site(1m + users)

2008-07-21 Thread Thomas Mäder
Sorry, but I just don't see the need for transparent failover in most cases. I don't believe many web applications have unsaved state over more than a few requests. So yes, you lost a server and you have to login again, but so what? It's not like it's going to happen very often to a single user. S

Re: Running a huge wicket site(1m + users)

2008-07-20 Thread Andras Hatvani
Hello, as of my experience there are two performance areas: - page/page part rendering performance - garbage collection and custom algorithms. - page delivery performance - caching. Regarding the former one: - custom algorithms: By these I mean all software pieces implemented on request of the c

Re: Running a huge wicket site(1m + users)

2008-07-20 Thread Michael Allan
> We are having the potential fun of running a site with around 1 million > users, and a lot more over time. What could be great optimizing points? Don't bother guessing. Attach a good profiler and discover where the bottlenecks *actually* are. Then fix them, one by one. (Afterwards, tell us w

Re: Running a huge wicket site(1m + users)

2008-07-19 Thread Ryan Sonnek
> > > Etc. There's a ton more questions to ask, but I'm sure you'll figure > that out in the context of your project :-) One of the most important > decisions you'll make is what parts of your application (maybe even > everything) you'll set up to be stateless and bookmarkable. Keep in > mind that

Re: Running a huge wicket site(1m + users)

2008-07-16 Thread Nino Saturnino Martinez Vazquez Wael
Thanks for your mail:) Eelco Hillenius wrote: We are having the potential fun of running a site with around 1 million users, and a lot more over time. What could be great optimizing points? Million users per week/ month/ year/ decade? ;-) We actually discussed this today:) Answer th

Re: Running a huge wicket site(1m + users)

2008-07-16 Thread Eelco Hillenius
> We are having the potential fun of running a site with around 1 million > users, and a lot more over time. What could be great optimizing points? Million users per week/ month/ year/ decade? ;-) Answer these questions for yourself: 1) On average, how many concurrent sessions will there be acti

Re: Running a huge wicket site(1m + users)

2008-07-16 Thread Gabor Szokoli
Hi, Everybody think happy thoughts, flowers, waterfalls, idle servers :-) On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 11:34 AM, Martijn Dashorst <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 10:33 AM, Daan van Etten <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> In my opinion it depends on your use case, but in high-load envi

Re: Running a huge wicket site(1m + users)

2008-07-16 Thread Daan van Etten
On 16 jul 2008, at 11:34, Martijn Dashorst wrote: On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 10:33 AM, Daan van Etten <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Can you elaborate a bit on your first statement? You need a lot of data-juggling for many clients, so I'd love to learn why it gives higher performance at the server

Re: Running a huge wicket site(1m + users)

2008-07-16 Thread Martijn Dashorst
On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 10:33 AM, Daan van Etten <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Can you elaborate a bit on your first statement? You need a lot of > data-juggling for many clients, so I'd love to learn why it gives higher > performance at the server. What is this data juggling you talk of? If you us

Re: Running a huge wicket site(1m + users)

2008-07-16 Thread Erik van Oosten
IMHO whether state at the client helps hugely depends on the amount of pages the user works with. If the user hardly ever leaves that one single page, keeping state on the client will help performance, provided the server does not need to keep a copy of (all) that state. The latter deviates

Re: Running a huge wicket site(1m + users)

2008-07-16 Thread Johan Compagner
For wicket keeping server state gives you more performance, except maybe the serialization penalty which is an overhead. But if you have enough memory for your clients (the expense to scale out) it is way faster If you use bookmarkable/stateless pages then everything has to be constructed on the

Re: Running a huge wicket site(1m + users)

2008-07-16 Thread Daan van Etten
Hi Martijn, On 16 jul 2008, at 10:19, Martijn Dashorst wrote: It is exactly the opposite: keeping state serverside increases performance. It makes it more expensive to scale out, but that is about it. Can you elaborate a bit on your first statement? You need a lot of data-juggling for many cl

Re: Running a huge wicket site(1m + users)

2008-07-16 Thread Martijn Dashorst
It is exactly the opposite: keeping state serverside increases performance. It makes it more expensive to scale out, but that is about it. Keeping state readily available at the server ensures you don't have to send it across the wire, or have to reconstruct it at the server. It consumes memory, a

Re: Running a huge wicket site(1m + users)

2008-07-16 Thread Daan van Etten
On 16 jul 2008, at 09:54, Nino Saturnino Martinez Vazquez Wael wrote: Daan van Etten wrote: On 16 jul 2008, at 04:49, Ryan Sonnek wrote: On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 8:54 AM, Nino Saturnino Martinez Vazquez Wael < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: We are having the potential fun of running a site with

Re: Running a huge wicket site(1m + users)

2008-07-16 Thread Nino Saturnino Martinez Vazquez Wael
Daan van Etten wrote: On 16 jul 2008, at 04:49, Ryan Sonnek wrote: On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 8:54 AM, Nino Saturnino Martinez Vazquez Wael < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: We are having the potential fun of running a site with around 1 million users, and a lot more over time. What could be great o

Re: Running a huge wicket site(1m + users)

2008-07-16 Thread Daan van Etten
On 16 jul 2008, at 04:49, Ryan Sonnek wrote: On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 8:54 AM, Nino Saturnino Martinez Vazquez Wael < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: We are having the potential fun of running a site with around 1 million users, and a lot more over time. What could be great optimizing points?

Re: Running a huge wicket site(1m + users)

2008-07-16 Thread Nino Saturnino Martinez Vazquez Wael
thanks for the pointers.. Ryan Sonnek wrote: On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 8:54 AM, Nino Saturnino Martinez Vazquez Wael < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi Guys We are having the potential fun of running a site with around 1 million users, and a lot more over time. What could be great optimizing poi

Re: Running a huge wicket site(1m + users)

2008-07-15 Thread Ryan Sonnek
On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 8:54 AM, Nino Saturnino Martinez Vazquez Wael < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Guys > > We are having the potential fun of running a site with around 1 million > users, and a lot more over time. What could be great optimizing points? > > We have looked at these things > >

Re: Running a huge wicket site(1m + users)

2008-07-15 Thread Nino Saturnino Martinez Vazquez Wael
The site is not public yet, as we are in beta testing currently. I'll be happy to give out links once we go public:) Cristi Manole wrote: Hello, Could you share with us the link to the website ? I don't think it's jayway.dk. So true:) And I was wondering what your DB is...? Are you using

Re: Running a huge wicket site(1m + users)

2008-07-15 Thread Cristi Manole
Hello, Could you share with us the link to the website ? I don't think it's jayway.dk. And I was wondering what your DB is...? Are you using Hibernate? I think everyone would appreciate you sharing all the information you can about the design, etc. Most of us are hoping to build a website just l

Re: Running a huge wicket site(1m + users)

2008-07-15 Thread Nino Saturnino Martinez Vazquez Wael
Yeah, will look into it.. And thanks! :) Erik van Oosten wrote: Nino Saturnino Martinez Vazquez Wael wrote: * Clustering(simple web server clustering with apache http/loadbalancer/tomcat) o Would Jetty be better? Terracotta? -- Erik van Oosten http://day-to-day-stuff

Re: Running a huge wicket site(1m + users)

2008-07-15 Thread Erik van Oosten
Nino Saturnino Martinez Vazquez Wael wrote: >* Clustering(simple web server clustering with apache > http/loadbalancer/tomcat) > o Would Jetty be better? Terracotta? -- Erik van Oosten http://day-to-day-stuff.blogspot.com/ -

Running a huge wicket site(1m + users)

2008-07-15 Thread Nino Saturnino Martinez Vazquez Wael
Hi Guys We are having the potential fun of running a site with around 1 million users, and a lot more over time. What could be great optimizing points? We have looked at these things * Detachable models (not sure if it makes anything run faster, just that it keeps the memory footprint