Re: [Vo]:Downwind Faster than the Wind (DWFTTW)

2010-09-22 Thread John Berry
Interesting effects from filming propellers: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9Px9EAhyss&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T055cp-JFUA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVwmtwZLG88&fe

Re: [Vo]:Downwind Faster than the Wind (DWFTTW)

2010-09-22 Thread John Fields
On Wed, 22 Sep 2010 13:12:27 -0400, you wrote: Sailboats vary enormously in terms of their favored point of sailing. I would guess that most sailboats do best with the wind on their beam (90 deg.) My boat is best on that point, and I can also sail into the wind to about 28 degrees without pinchin

Re: [Vo]:Downwind Faster than the Wind (DWFTTW)

2010-09-22 Thread Ron Wormus
Here is a pretty good description of how it works: Ron --On Wednesday, September 22, 2010 1:12 PM -0400 Lawrence de Bivort wrote: Sailboats vary enormously in terms of their favored point of sailing. I would gue

Re: [Vo]:Downwind Faster than the Wind (DWFTTW)

2010-09-22 Thread OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson
>From Lawry, ... > I wonder what race committees will say when a sailor shows > up with this rig. Thinking of John's explanation, though, > I suppose it will not work as there won't be any torque > transmission from the wheels to the prop. Paddle wheels! "My parrot can squawk out Steamboat Will

Re: [Vo]:Downwind Faster than the Wind (DWFTTW)

2010-09-22 Thread Lawrence de Bivort
Sailboats vary enormously in terms of their favored point of sailing. I would guess that most sailboats do best with the wind on their beam (90 deg.) My boat is best on that point, and I can also sail into the wind to about 28 degrees without pinching, which is exceptionally. Downwind is slow

Re: [Vo]:Downwind Faster than the Wind (DWFTTW)

2010-09-22 Thread OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson
>From John Fields, ... > Note that with the wind pushing the cart and the pitch of > the propeller as shown, the wind would, intuitively, be > forcing the propeller to rotate counter-clockwise as > viewed from the rear of the cart. > > However, such is not the case. > > What's really happening is

Re: [Vo]:Downwind Faster than the Wind (DWFTTW)

2010-09-22 Thread John Fields
On Wed, 22 Sep 2010 16:01:42 +0100, you wrote: >This must be a scam. As Jed said, at the point where the craft is going >downwind at the speed of the wind, the relative wind across the propeller >would be zero so it could not accelerate from this point on. If it did, the >force from the prop wo

Re: [Vo]:Downwind Faster than the Wind (DWFTTW)

2010-09-22 Thread Nick Palmer
This must be a scam. As Jed said, at the point where the craft is going downwind at the speed of the wind, the relative wind across the propeller would be zero so it could not accelerate from this point on. If it did, the force from the prop would reverse anyway. Even more obviously, if it can

Re: [Vo]:Downwind Faster than the Wind (DWFTTW)

2010-09-21 Thread Terry Blanton
On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 3:51 PM, Jones Beene wrote: > Maybe the Russians are using the technique on the this helicopter, which > seems to be getting a massive amount of lift with almost no blade speed ... > cough, cough. > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgvuQGY946g Personally, I liked the "tw

RE: [Vo]:Downwind Faster than the Wind (DWFTTW)

2010-09-21 Thread Jones Beene
Ah yes, it is the old mystery of capturing "apparent wind". Apparent wind is the wind that you "make yourself" i.e. you feel on your face as you move forward such as on a bicycle. True wind is the wind that is blowing naturally. There is a long-forgotten way it could be done today, with huge OU

Re: [Vo]:Downwind Faster than the Wind (DWFTTW)

2010-09-21 Thread Lawrence de Bivort
I think we can think of this in terms of three phases: 1. Start from a dead stop 2. Acceleration to a speed superior to that of the wind 3. Post acceleration performance 1. I am guessing that the contraption just starts moving forward because of the push of the wind on its vertical surface, e.g.

Re: [Vo]:Downwind Faster than the Wind (DWFTTW)

2010-09-21 Thread OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson
Quite baffling. I love the amount of conjecture this tiny little transportation device has spontaneously generated within the Vort Collective. Nice to see that the Vort juices haven't completely atrophied. Creative conjecture of this sort seems to have been kind of sparse lately! ;-) I still remain

Re: [Vo]:Downwind Faster than the Wind (DWFTTW)

2010-09-21 Thread jwinter
On 9/22/2010 1:26 AM, Jed Rothwell wrote: I do not see how this can work! They are going with the wind, so if they start to travel at the same speed as the wind, the propeller should stop turning. Maybe I am missing something. Yes what an interesting puzzle! But knowing that it can be done a

Re: [Vo]:Downwind Faster than the Wind (DWFTTW)

2010-09-21 Thread John Fields
On Tue, 21 Sep 2010 13:26:47 -0400, you wrote: >I do not see how this can work! They are going with the wind, so if >they start to travel at the same speed as the wind, the propeller >should stop turning. > >Maybe I am missing something. > >- Jed --- Notice from the pitch of the propeller and i

Re: [Vo]:Downwind Faster than the Wind (DWFTTW)

2010-09-21 Thread Lawrence de Bivort
I am guessing that the propeller propels a belt/chain which is geared into the wheels. Lawry On Sep 21, 2010, at 1:26 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote: > I do not see how this can work! They are going with the wind, so if they > start to travel at the same speed as the wind, the propeller should stop

RE: [Vo]:Downwind Faster than the Wind (DWFTTW)

2010-09-21 Thread Jones Beene
Wouldn't you know - they even have a url http://www.fasterthanthewind.org/ -Original Message- From: Jed Rothwell I do not see how this can work! They are going with the wind, so if they start to travel at the same speed as the wind, the propeller should stop turning. Maybe I am mis

Re: [Vo]:Downwind Faster than the Wind (DWFTTW)

2010-09-21 Thread Alexander Hollins
well, their own speed would let the prop spin as drag, but it would have to slow down eventually. On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 10:26 AM, Jed Rothwell wrote: > I do not see how this can work! They are going with the wind, so if they > start to travel at the same speed as the wind, the propeller should

Re: [Vo]:Downwind Faster than the Wind (DWFTTW)

2010-09-21 Thread Jed Rothwell
I do not see how this can work! They are going with the wind, so if they start to travel at the same speed as the wind, the propeller should stop turning. Maybe I am missing something. - Jed

[Vo]:Downwind Faster than the Wind (DWFTTW) (continued)

2010-09-20 Thread Esa Ruoho
also: http://www.fasterthanthewind.org/ internets provides: > > http://vimeo.com/10476453 > We built a wind powered vehicle designed to go *directly* downwind - faster > than the wind. This is the first run of our first outing. We intended these > first "attempts" only as shakeout runs. But we e

[Vo]:Downwind Faster than the Wind (DWFTTW)

2010-09-20 Thread Esa Ruoho
internets provides: http://vimeo.com/10476453 We built a wind powered vehicle designed to go *directly* downwind - faster than the wind. This is the first run of our first outing. We intended these first "attempts" only as shakeout runs. But we ended up doing better than our ultimate goal of twice