Re: [whatwg] contenteditable, and

2007-01-10 Thread Karl Dubost
Le 10 janv. 2007 à 22:01, Henri Sivonen a écrit : (in Japanese) a switch to katakana, Wouldn't a normal Japanese writer enter the text as katakana into the document content instead of requesting the UA to transform hiragana or even kanji to katakana? katakana is used to represent foreign

Re: [whatwg] contenteditable, and

2007-01-10 Thread Karl Dubost
Le 10 janv. 2007 à 18:40, fantasai a écrit : That depends, actually, on the language. Browsing the Chinese journal section of a university East Asian Library, I noticed that the Chinese journals didn't use normal/italics -- instead they switched the style of font between their equivalents of

Re: [whatwg] contenteditable, and

2007-01-10 Thread Simon Pieters
Hi, From: "Simon Pieters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Well... in that case needs to be defined as being equivalent to and equivalent to , and the ability to mark things as being important or as stress emphasis is lost. Actually, when I think about it, the ability to express such semantics *could*

Re: [whatwg] Hyphenation

2007-01-10 Thread Sander Tekelenburg
At 02:19 +0100 UTC, on 2007-01-11, Håkon Wium Lie wrote: > Also sprach Sander Tekelenburg: > > > FWIW, my feeling is that it would be best if there'd be a defined format >for > > hyphenation rules, and browsers would accept such description files [...] > > This format exists. It was pioneered by

Re: [whatwg] Hyphenation

2007-01-10 Thread Håkon Wium Lie
Also sprach Sander Tekelenburg: > FWIW, my feeling is that it would be best if there'd be a defined format for > hyphenation rules, and browsers would accept such description files as a > plug-in. This would allow each language's specialist to write their rules, > and share them, without putti

Re: [whatwg] Hyphenation

2007-01-10 Thread Sander Tekelenburg
At 20:22 +0200 UTC, on 2007-01-09, Henri Sivonen wrote: [...] > * Not knowing Dutch, the example makes me guess that the diaeresis > in Dutch has the same meaning as in French (indicate that vowels > don't form a diphthong). If this is the case, the interaction of the > diaeresis with hyphenati

Re: [whatwg] contenteditable, and

2007-01-10 Thread Matthew Paul Thomas
On Jan 11, 2007, at 2:17 AM, Henri Sivonen wrote: On Jan 10, 2007, at 13:26, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote: The message "please use and unless you really know what you're doing, and generate and unless your users really know what they're doing" is *not* well-known. What's the expected payo

Re: [whatwg] and

2007-01-10 Thread Sander Tekelenburg
At 14:42 +1300 UTC, on 2007-01-07, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote: > On Jan 7, 2007, at 7:13 AM, Sander Tekelenburg wrote: [...] >> It's still entirely unclear to me *why* the cite attribute needs a >> replacement. What is wrong with it? > > First, it's hard for UAs to present cite= in a way that is

Re: [whatwg] contenteditable, and

2007-01-10 Thread Nicholas Shanks
Having come in to this conversation half way, I'd like to give my opinions. In the following 'default style' means in the UAs style declarations for all documents of the language. There should be three emphasis elements: Increases emphatic semantics by one level. *No* default rendering s

Re: [whatwg] Hyphenation

2007-01-10 Thread James Graham
Kornel Lesinski wrote: On Tue, 09 Jan 2007 23:47:46 -, James Graham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: FWIW this all makes just as much sense with "dictionary" replaced by "stylesheet" (stylesheets need to be kept in sync as new elements, classes and ids are used rather than new words). Not enti

Re: [whatwg] Hyphenation

2007-01-10 Thread Kornel Lesinski
On Tue, 09 Jan 2007 23:47:46 -, James Graham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: FWIW this all makes just as much sense with "dictionary" replaced by "stylesheet" (stylesheets need to be kept in sync as new elements, classes and ids are used rather than new words). Not entirely. The layout and s

Re: [whatwg] contenteditable, and

2007-01-10 Thread Henri Sivonen
On Jan 10, 2007, at 13:26, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote: The message "please use and unless you really know what you're doing, and generate and unless your users really know what they're doing" is *not* well-known. What's the expected payoff if the message is made well-known? It has not y

Re: [whatwg] contenteditable, and

2007-01-10 Thread Henri Sivonen
On Jan 10, 2007, at 14:40, Simon Pieters wrote: From: Henri Sivonen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Two of the four implementations that the WHATWG cares about interoperate. Is it worthwhile to disrupt that situation—especially considering that changes to Trident are the hardest for the WHATWG to i

Re: [whatwg] contenteditable, and

2007-01-10 Thread Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
Henri Sivonen wrote: > Part of the overall "test" is that such UIs haven't been launched > with success in the last 14 years. Well the WYSIWIG paradigm has been dominant in user-space. But I have pointed to alternatives like Lyx and Mellel. Those seem to be successful at bringing semantic thoug

Re: [whatwg] contenteditable, and

2007-01-10 Thread Henri Sivonen
On Jan 10, 2007, at 11:40, fantasai wrote: That depends, actually, on the language. Browsing the Chinese journal section of a university East Asian Library, I noticed that the Chinese journals didn't use normal/italics -- instead they switched the style of font between their equivalents of se

Re: [whatwg] contenteditable, and

2007-01-10 Thread Simon Pieters
Hi, From: Henri Sivonen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Two of the four implementations that the WHATWG cares about interoperate. Is it worthwhile to disrupt that situation—especially considering that changes to Trident are the hardest for the WHATWG to induce? Does the interoperability matter much in

Re: [whatwg] contenteditable, and

2007-01-10 Thread mail
I've been reading this discussion and I do not get the point. It looks like we are discussing about the traditional bold button, but to my mind we should discuss about the logic behind that button. First of all I want to state that to my mind Alexey Feldgendler was absolutely right when he said: "W

Re: [whatwg] contenteditable, and

2007-01-10 Thread Matthew Paul Thomas
On Jan 10, 2007, at 9:31 PM, Henri Sivonen wrote: On Jan 9, 2007, at 23:29, Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis wrote: Henri Sivonen wrote: ... and are both primarily used to achieve bold rendering on the visual media. Regardless of which tags authors type or which tags their editor shortcuts produce, a

Re: [whatwg] contenteditable, and

2007-01-10 Thread fantasai
Henri Sivonen wrote: On Jan 9, 2007, at 23:29, Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis wrote: Henri Sivonen wrote: I think using span with a style attribute is a bad idea in this case. Italicizing a word or two in a paragraph is not incidental style that could easily be considered optional. Surely it /is/ an

Re: [whatwg] contenteditable, and

2007-01-10 Thread Henri Sivonen
On Jan 9, 2007, at 23:29, Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis wrote: Henri Sivonen wrote: My conclusion is that semantic markup has failed in this case. Semantic markup hasn't barely been tested in this case. For the most part, users have been force-fed broken markup by deceptive user interfaces. Sure.