Re: [whatwg] Dealing with UI redress vulnerabilities inherent tothe current web

2008-09-26 Thread Kristof Zelechovski
It seems the problem equally affects embedded objects can be loaded from a different origin as well. Chris _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robert O'Callahan Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 3:31 AM To: Michal Zalewski Cc: Maciej Stachowiak;

Re: [whatwg] Dealing with UI redress vulnerabilities inherent to the current web

2008-09-26 Thread Michal Zalewski
On Thu, 25 Sep 2008, Maciej Stachowiak wrote: I meant, corner of the container, rather than actual document rendered within. Then can't you work around the restriction by scrolling the contents inside the iframe and sizing it carefully? (One way to scroll an iframe to a desired position is

Re: [whatwg] Dealing with UI redress vulnerabilities inherent to the current web

2008-09-26 Thread Anne van Kesteren
On Thu, 25 Sep 2008 22:17:00 +0200, Collin Jackson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 6) New cookie attribute: The httpOnly cookie flag allows sites to put restrictions on how a cookie can be accessed. We could allow a new flag to be specified in the Set-Cookie header that is designed to prevent CSRF and

Re: [whatwg] Dealing with UI redress vulnerabilities inherent to the current web

2008-09-26 Thread Kristof Zelechovski
Prohibiting third-party embedded content would disable media embedded in blogs. Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Elliotte Harold Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 5:21 PM To: whatwg@lists.whatwg.org Subject: Re: [whatwg] Dealing with

Re: [whatwg] Dealing with UI redress vulnerabilities inherent to the current web

2008-09-26 Thread Elliotte Harold
Kristof Zelechovski wrote: Prohibiting third-party embedded content would disable media embedded in blogs. Absolutely false. The media simply needs to be served from the same host the blog itself is. This is how almost all the media in my blogs works today. What little content comes from a

Re: [whatwg] Dealing with UI redress vulnerabilities inherent to the current web

2008-09-26 Thread Michal Zalewski
On Fri, 26 Sep 2008, Maciej Stachowiak wrote: Maybe I didn't read very well, but I don't see how the clause for UI action optimizations would prevent what I described. Could you spell it out for me please? It seems to me that the embedded iframes for iGoogle gadgets (or similar) will indeed

Re: [whatwg] Dealing with UI redress vulnerabilities inherent to the current web

2008-09-26 Thread Elliotte Rusty Harold
Ozob the Great wrote: The bandwidth cost of hosting video makes this option unworkable for some blogs. And yet someone's hosting that bandwidth today. This need not involve any net increase in bandwidth. It would just involve a rejiggering of hosting models. -- Elliotte Rusty Harold

Re: [whatwg] Dealing with UI redress vulnerabilities inherent to the current web

2008-09-26 Thread Kristof Zelechovski
If a user in America watches a media stream hosted in America but embedded on a blog page hosted in Europe, the media stream would have to cross the ocean twice. This is not a trifle. Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Elliotte Rusty

Re: [whatwg] Dealing with UI redress vulnerabilities inherent to the current web

2008-09-26 Thread Elliotte Rusty Harold
Michal Zalewski wrote: I kinda assumed this suggestion was tongue-in-cheek, but if not - banning cross-domain IFRAMEs to fix one flaw, without providing viable methods for sandboxing untrusted same-origin content, would leave web developers with no tools to deal with quite a few classes of

Re: [whatwg] Dealing with UI redress vulnerabilities inherent to the current web

2008-09-26 Thread Robert O'Callahan
On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 9:19 AM, Elliotte Rusty Harold [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I do think we have an existence proof that security in this realm is possible. That's Java. Modulo some outright bugs in VMs (since repaired) the default Java applet security model has worked and worked well since

Re: [whatwg] Dealing with UI redress vulnerabilities inherent to the current web

2008-09-26 Thread Michal Zalewski
On Fri, 26 Sep 2008, Elliotte Rusty Harold wrote: It's tongue-in-cheek that I don't expect it to be adopted or seriously considered (this year). It's not tongue-in-cheek in that I very much wish it were adopted. That is, I think it's in the realm of the desirable, not the possible. Oh yup,

Re: [whatwg] Dealing with UI redress vulnerabilities inherent to the current web

2008-09-26 Thread Elliotte Rusty Harold
Robert O'Callahan wrote: On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 9:19 AM, Elliotte Rusty Harold [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I do think we have an existence proof that security in this realm is possible. That's Java. Modulo some outright bugs in VMs (since repaired) the

Re: [whatwg] Dealing with UI redress vulnerabilities inherent to the current web

2008-09-26 Thread Robert O'Callahan
On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 11:55 AM, Elliotte Rusty Harold [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As I said, it's an existence proof. Sun's inability to provide decent developer tools (unlike Adobe) doesn't reflect on the capability of the model. That has nothing to do with it. You're saying Java's

Re: [whatwg] WebSocket support in HTML5

2008-09-26 Thread Richard's Hotmail
Hi David, - Original Message - From: ddailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Richard's Hotmail [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 10:33 PM Subject: Re: [whatwg] WebSocket support in HTML5 Hi Richard, My apologies for getting involved in a topic I confess to

Re: [whatwg] WebSocket support in HTML5

2008-09-26 Thread Richard's Hotmail
Hi David, Sorry, forgot to mention a UDP Socket push technology demo, that I'd also like to be able to achieve with WebSockets rather than Java Applet Sockets. Please explain how the functionality employed in the following code could ever be achieved with the proposed WebSockets: -

Re: [whatwg] Dealing with UI redress vulnerabilities inherent tothe current web

2008-09-26 Thread Richard's Hotmail
Hi Rob, You're saying Java's security model is adequate for what people want to do on the Web. I say that is unproven since people are not using Java on the Web. *Why* they are not using Java on the Web is irrelevant. I certainly don't know what's on every web-page out there, but when it

Re: [whatwg] Dealing with UI redress vulnerabilities inherent tothe current web

2008-09-26 Thread Robert O'Callahan
On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 3:17 PM, Richard's Hotmail [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: https://jdk6.dev.java.net/plugin2/ http://weblogs.java.net/blog/joshy/archive/2008/05/java_doodle_cro.html We have a W3C spec for the latter called Access Controls, which is a good deal more secure than Java/Flash's

Re: [whatwg] Dealing with UI redress vulnerabilities inherent to the current web

2008-09-26 Thread Elliotte Harold
Robert O'Callahan wrote: You're saying Java's security model is adequate for what people want to do on the Web. I say that is unproven since people are not using Java on the Web. *Why* they are not using Java on the Web is irrelevant. Java's security model is absolutely adequate for what