Re: [whatwg] Bandwidth media queries

On Mon, 21 May 2012, Mounir Lamouri wrote: On 05/21/2012 04:34 PM, Boris Zbarsky wrote: On 5/21/12 10:09 AM, Mounir Lamouri wrote: On 05/20/2012 03:04 PM, Boris Zbarsky wrote: On 5/20/12 5:45 AM, Paul Irish wrote: Since no one mentioned it, I just wanted to make sure this thread is aware o

Re: [whatwg] Bandwidth media queries

On 05/21/2012 04:34 PM, Boris Zbarsky wrote: > On 5/21/12 10:09 AM, Mounir Lamouri wrote: >> On 05/20/2012 03:04 PM, Boris Zbarsky wrote: >>> On 5/20/12 5:45 AM, Paul Irish wrote: Since no one mentioned it, I just wanted to make sure this thread is aware of the Network Information AP

Re: [whatwg] Bandwidth media queries

On 05/21/2012 04:42 PM, James Graham wrote: > On 05/21/2012 04:34 PM, Boris Zbarsky wrote: >> If I'm reading the right code now, that looks like it returns a constant >> value for each connection type (e.g. if you're connected via Ethernet or >> Wifi it returns 20; if you're connected via EDGE it r

Re: [whatwg] Bandwidth media queries

On 05/21/2012 04:50 PM, Boris Zbarsky wrote: On 5/21/12 10:42 AM, James Graham wrote: Can you point me to the discussion of usecases that led to this design? Me personally, no. I wasn't involved in either the spec or the Gecko impl; I'm just reading the code Sorry; s/you/anyone/ (I also

Re: [whatwg] Bandwidth media queries

On 5/21/12 10:42 AM, James Graham wrote: Can you point me to the discussion of usecases that led to this design? Me personally, no. I wasn't involved in either the spec or the Gecko impl; I'm just reading the code -Boris

Re: [whatwg] Bandwidth media queries

On 05/21/2012 04:34 PM, Boris Zbarsky wrote: On 5/21/12 10:09 AM, Mounir Lamouri wrote: On 05/20/2012 03:04 PM, Boris Zbarsky wrote: On 5/20/12 5:45 AM, Paul Irish wrote: Since no one mentioned it, I just wanted to make sure this thread is aware of the Network Information API [1], which provid

Re: [whatwg] Bandwidth media queries

On 5/21/12 10:09 AM, Mounir Lamouri wrote: On 05/20/2012 03:04 PM, Boris Zbarsky wrote: On 5/20/12 5:45 AM, Paul Irish wrote: Since no one mentioned it, I just wanted to make sure this thread is aware of the Network Information API [1], which provides navigator.connection.bandwidth It's been r

Re: [whatwg] Bandwidth media queries

On 05/20/2012 03:04 PM, Boris Zbarsky wrote: > On 5/20/12 5:45 AM, Paul Irish wrote: >> Since no one mentioned it, I just wanted to make sure this thread is >> aware >> of the Network Information API [1], which provides >> navigator.connection.bandwidth >> >> It's been recently implemented (to some

Re: [whatwg] Bandwidth media queries

On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 9:48 PM, Matthew Wilcox wrote: > If you're a browser you are the software interpreting the instructions > of a given language: CSS in this case. In addition to the problem that it's actually hard for browsers to know what the current bandwidth is especially on mobile netwo

Re: [whatwg] Bandwidth media queries

On May 20, 2012, at 6:13 AM, Boris Zbarsky wrote: > On 5/20/12 9:04 AM, Boris Zbarsky wrote: >> On 5/20/12 5:45 AM, Paul Irish wrote: >>> Since no one mentioned it, I just wanted to make sure this thread is >>> aware >>> of the Network Information API [1], which provides >>> navigator.connection

Re: [whatwg] Bandwidth media queries

On Sun, 20 May 2012, Boris Zbarsky wrote: On 5/20/12 5:45 AM, Paul Irish wrote: Since no one mentioned it, I just wanted to make sure this thread is aware of the Network Information API [1], which provides navigator.connection.bandwidth It's been recently implemented (to some degree) in both M

Re: [whatwg] Bandwidth media queries

On 5/20/12 9:04 AM, Boris Zbarsky wrote: On 5/20/12 5:45 AM, Paul Irish wrote: Since no one mentioned it, I just wanted to make sure this thread is aware of the Network Information API [1], which provides navigator.connection.bandwidth It's been recently implemented (to some degree) in both Moz

Re: [whatwg] Bandwidth media queries

On 5/20/12 5:45 AM, Paul Irish wrote: Since no one mentioned it, I just wanted to make sure this thread is aware of the Network Information API [1], which provides navigator.connection.bandwidth It's been recently implemented (to some degree) in both Mozilla [2] and Webkit [3]. As far as I can

Re: [whatwg] Bandwidth media queries

Since no one mentioned it, I just wanted to make sure this thread is aware of the Network Information API [1], which provides navigator.connection.bandwidth It's been recently implemented (to some degree) in both Mozilla [2] and Webkit [3]. [1] http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/dap/raw-file/tip/network-api/i

Re: [whatwg] Bandwidth media queries

On 18 May 2012 11:17, Kornel Lesiński wrote: > I think we may be talking past each other, as I don't see how your answers > address the problems I'm trying to highlight. Indeed, I'm not debating your points - I accept that it isn't realistically achievable in HTML/CSS :) All the last comment wa

Re: [whatwg] Bandwidth media queries

I think we may be talking past each other, as I don't see how your answers address the problems I'm trying to highlight. It's not enough to say it's a hard problem. It's not going to solve itself. If you say media queries can be useful for bandwidth/quality use-cases, you need to actually spec

Re: [whatwg] Bandwidth media queries

Cheers for that feedback Andy - it is indeed a complicated issue with much more nuance than I think many people (myself included) would have expected. I still think there's a technical solution there, but as you say - it's making that solution reliable enough to be worth it. The problem really is "

Re: [whatwg] Bandwidth media queries

On Wed, 16 May 2012 19:48:04 +0100, Matthew Wilcox wrote: First off I know that a number of people say this is not possible. I am not wanting to argue this because I don't have the knowledge to argue it - but I do want to understand why, and currently I do not. Please also remember that I can

Re: [whatwg] Bandwidth media queries

Hi Matt, You really want to know what the throughput is rather than just the bandwidth and throughput is a bit of a PITA to work out in web conditions... Throughput is a mixture of available TCP connection time, bandwidth, latency and packet loss, etc. In theory you could measure it from the bro

Re: [whatwg] Bandwidth media queries

On Wed, 2012-05-16 at 20:09 +0100, Matthew Wilcox wrote: > Ok, so really it's an efficiency of authoring problem; before I just > didn't get how it'd be any different to a viewport width from the > perspective of an author. > > That said, when coupled with viewport responses... yeah, that could >

Re: [whatwg] Bandwidth media queries

On 16 May 2012 20:10, James Graham wrote: > On Wed, 16 May 2012, Matthew Wilcox wrote: > >> First off I know that a number of people say this is not possible. I >> am not wanting to argue this because I don't have the knowledge to >> argue it - but I do want to understand why, and currently I do n

Re: [whatwg] Bandwidth media queries

On Wed, 16 May 2012, Matthew Wilcox wrote: First off I know that a number of people say this is not possible. I am not wanting to argue this because I don't have the knowledge to argue it - but I do want to understand why, and currently I do not. Please also remember that I can only see this fro

Re: [whatwg] Bandwidth media queries

Ok, so really it's an efficiency of authoring problem; before I just didn't get how it'd be any different to a viewport width from the perspective of an author. That said, when coupled with viewport responses... yeah, that could get complicated to author. Essentially each bandwidth bracket would b

Re: [whatwg] Bandwidth media queries

It's not that bandwidth queries aren't possible, it's that they're not *useful* for the things you'd want to use them for, and they don't act like you'd want anyway. I explain much of the reasoning in - while the blog post purports to be about resolution negotia

[whatwg] Bandwidth media queries

First off I know that a number of people say this is not possible. I am not wanting to argue this because I don't have the knowledge to argue it - but I do want to understand why, and currently I do not. Please also remember that I can only see this from an authors perspective as I'm ignorant of th