Re: [whatwg] imgset responsive imgs proposition (Re: The src-N proposal)

2013-11-20 Thread Laurent Perez
I wasn't aware of the { content: replaced url(attr(src-big)); } syntax. This looks indeed better when you want to keep the sources in the img tag. @media (3dppx resolution = 2dppx), (min-width: 320px) { .artdirection { content: replaced url(attr(data-mobile-retina)) } } @media (min-width:

Re: [whatwg] imgset responsive imgs proposition (Re: The src-N proposal)

2013-11-20 Thread John Mellor
On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 11:22 PM, Maciej Stachowiak m...@apple.com wrote: I can't speak for all WebKit developers or even all with an interest in this, but my thoughts are as follows: Thanks for explaining your position Maciej. The src-n proposal with the following changes seems likely

Re: [whatwg] imgset responsive imgs proposition (Re: The src-N proposal)

2013-11-19 Thread Laurent Perez
Hi I was at the Paris RICG meetup in Paris, I understand the complexity of the responsive requirements. I'd like to propose the following pseudocode, building upon CSS4 range media queries. @media (3dppx resolution = 2dppx), (min-width: 320px) { .artdirection { background-image:url(high.png);

Re: [whatwg] imgset responsive imgs proposition (Re: The src-N proposal)

2013-11-19 Thread Maciej Stachowiak
On Nov 19, 2013, at 4:17 PM, Laurent Perez l.lauren...@gmail.com wrote: Hi I was at the Paris RICG meetup in Paris, I understand the complexity of the responsive requirements. I'd like to propose the following pseudocode, building upon CSS4 range media queries. @media (3dppx

Re: [whatwg] imgset responsive imgs proposition (Re: The src-N proposal)

2013-11-19 Thread Bruno Racineux
On 11/19/13 4:17 PM, Laurent Perez l.lauren...@gmail.com wrote: I'd like to propose the following pseudocode, building upon CSS4 range media queries. @media (3dppx resolution = 2dppx), (min-width: 320px) { .artdirection { background-image:url(high.png); background-position: center;

Re: [whatwg] imgset responsive imgs proposition (Re: The src-N proposal)

2013-11-18 Thread Tab Atkins Jr.
On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 3:11 PM, Maciej Stachowiak m...@apple.com wrote: It seems like the blockers to this syntax working as-is are: - For Safari and Chrome, url(attr()) doesn't work. This will never work; for legacy compat reasons, url() is not a function, but a syntax construct specially

Re: [whatwg] imgset responsive imgs proposition (Re: The src-N proposal)

2013-11-18 Thread Maciej Stachowiak
On Nov 18, 2013, at 9:05 AM, Tab Atkins Jr. jackalm...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 3:11 PM, Maciej Stachowiak m...@apple.com wrote: It seems like the blockers to this syntax working as-is are: - For Safari and Chrome, url(attr()) doesn't work. This will never work; for legacy

Re: [whatwg] imgset responsive imgs proposition (Re: The src-N proposal)

2013-11-18 Thread Tab Atkins Jr.
On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 1:35 PM, Maciej Stachowiak m...@apple.com wrote: I'm not enough of a CSS expert to understand the implications of that change. What would be the observable behavior changes that 'content: replaced' would produce? - For Firefox, the 'content' property doesn't work on

Re: [whatwg] imgset responsive imgs proposition (Re: The src-N proposal)

2013-11-18 Thread Maciej Stachowiak
On Nov 18, 2013, at 2:54 PM, Tab Atkins Jr. jackalm...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 1:35 PM, Maciej Stachowiak m...@apple.com wrote: I'm not enough of a CSS expert to understand the implications of that change. What would be the observable behavior changes that 'content:

Re: [whatwg] imgset responsive imgs proposition (Re: The src-N proposal)

2013-11-18 Thread Tab Atkins Jr.
On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 5:08 PM, Maciej Stachowiak m...@apple.com wrote: I see. It seems like it would be simpler to just define content on a real element to have the existing WK/Blink behavior without saying replaced. It is not obvious why ignoring the element size is a useful default

Re: [whatwg] imgset responsive imgs proposition (Re: The src-N proposal)

2013-11-17 Thread Maciej Stachowiak
On Nov 15, 2013, at 9:00 AM, Yoav Weiss y...@yoav.ws wrote: On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 4:20 PM, Adam Barth w...@adambarth.com wrote: My apologies. I thought Christian Biesinger addressed all these concerns with his proposal: On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 5:56 PM, Christian Biesinger

Re: [whatwg] imgset responsive imgs proposition (Re: The src-N proposal)

2013-11-17 Thread Maciej Stachowiak
On Nov 15, 2013, at 3:00 PM, Tab Atkins Jr. jackalm...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 12:39 PM, Adam Barth w...@adambarth.com wrote: Do you have an alternative proposal aside from src-N? Recall that src-N has been rejected by WebKit and therefore is no longer viable. Hey,

Re: [whatwg] imgset responsive imgs proposition (Re: The src-N proposal)

2013-11-16 Thread Markus Lanthaler
On Saturday, November 16, 2013 12:11 AM, Bruno Racineux On 11/15/13 2:50 PM, Tab Atkins Jr. jackalm...@gmail.com wrote: There is no compaction scheme that helps here. (Unless you're trying for one of the url-template ones, and we don't want to go there.) Why not? I'd like to hear the

Re: [whatwg] imgset responsive imgs proposition (Re: The src-N proposal)

2013-11-16 Thread Bruno Racineux
On 11/15/13 9:48 PM, matmarquis.com m...@matmarquis.com wrote: I¹d say the likelihood of a project not using a content image directory a step or two from root is roughly the same as the likelihood that I¹m hot-linking to images on someone else¹s website땧hich is to say ³very slim.² The ³real

Re: [whatwg] imgset responsive imgs proposition (Re: The src-N proposal)

2013-11-16 Thread matmarquis.com
On Nov 16, at 4:25 PM, Bruno Racineux wrote: On 11/15/13 9:48 PM, matmarquis.com m...@matmarquis.com wrote: I©öd say the likelihood of a project not using a content image directory a step or two from root is roughly the same as the likelihood that I©öm hot-linking to images on someone

Re: [whatwg] imgset responsive imgs proposition (Re: The src-N proposal)

2013-11-16 Thread Bruno Racineux
On 11/16/13 3:24 PM, matmarquis.com m...@matmarquis.com wrote: I started and have been running the Responsive Images Community Group for nearly three years now.I helped build BostonGlobe.com and the original ³prototype² script for responsive images, I¹m a maintainer on the Picturefill project,

Re: [whatwg] imgset responsive imgs proposition (Re: The src-N proposal)

2013-11-15 Thread Yoav Weiss
On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 7:31 PM, Maciej Stachowiak m...@apple.com wrote: Content authors can already do what is described above, and in fact often do. However, a div with a background-image property set is not the same as an img in practice. Here are a few differences: (1) There's no

Re: [whatwg] imgset responsive imgs proposition (Re: The src-N proposal)

2013-11-15 Thread Adam Barth
On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 1:55 AM, Yoav Weiss y...@yoav.ws wrote: On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 7:31 PM, Maciej Stachowiak m...@apple.com wrote: Content authors can already do what is described above, and in fact often do. However, a div with a background-image property set is not the same as an img

Re: [whatwg] imgset responsive imgs proposition (Re: The src-N proposal)

2013-11-15 Thread Yoav Weiss
On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 4:20 PM, Adam Barth w...@adambarth.com wrote: My apologies. I thought Christian Biesinger addressed all these concerns with his proposal: On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 5:56 PM, Christian Biesinger cbiesin...@google.com wrote: For a bit more presentation, and while we're

Re: [whatwg] imgset responsive imgs proposition (Re: The src-N proposal)

2013-11-15 Thread Adam Barth
On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 9:00 AM, Yoav Weiss y...@yoav.ws wrote: On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 4:20 PM, Adam Barth w...@adambarth.com wrote: My apologies. I thought Christian Biesinger addressed all these concerns with his proposal: On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 5:56 PM, Christian Biesinger

Re: [whatwg] imgset responsive imgs proposition (Re: The src-N proposal)

2013-11-15 Thread Shane Hudson
Could I just please clarify, since its been hard to follow the conversation, that having the style internal means that the prefetcher can still handle the images properly? Thanks, Shane On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 4:20 PM, Adam Barth w...@adambarth.com wrote: On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 1:55 AM, Yoav

Re: [whatwg] imgset responsive imgs proposition (Re: The src-N proposal)

2013-11-15 Thread John Mellor
On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 5:12 PM, Shane Hudson m...@shanehudson.net wrote: Could I just please clarify, since its been hard to follow the conversation, that having the style internal means that the prefetcher can still handle the images properly? Yes, *but* only if you use a limited subset of

Re: [whatwg] imgset responsive imgs proposition (Re: The src-N proposal)

2013-11-15 Thread matmarquis.com
On Nov 15, at 12:12 PM, Shane Hudson wrote: Could I just please clarify, since its been hard to follow the conversation, that having the style internal means that the prefetcher can still handle the images properly? Also, we seem to be operating under the assumption that requiring in-page CSS

Re: [whatwg] imgset responsive imgs proposition (Re: The src-N proposal)

2013-11-15 Thread Yoav Weiss
Any thoughts on my concerns with making inline CSS mandatory (especially from the CSP angle)? CSP 1.1 supports securing inline style and script with nonces and/or hashes. OK, since the latest proposals keep the URLs outside the style, modifying the content image can keep the same style,

Re: [whatwg] imgset responsive imgs proposition (Re: The src-N proposal)

2013-11-15 Thread matmarquis.com
On Nov 15, at 12:27 PM, Yoav Weiss wrote: Any thoughts on my concerns with making inline CSS mandatory (especially from the CSP angle)? CSP 1.1 supports securing inline style and script with nonces and/or hashes. OK, since the latest proposals keep the URLs outside the style,

Re: [whatwg] imgset responsive imgs proposition (Re: The src-N proposal)

2013-11-15 Thread Adam Barth
On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 10:25 AM, matmarquis.com m...@matmarquis.com wrote: On Nov 15, at 12:27 PM, Yoav Weiss wrote: Any thoughts on my concerns with making inline CSS mandatory (especially from the CSP angle)? CSP 1.1 supports securing inline style and script with nonces and/or hashes.

Re: [whatwg] imgset responsive imgs proposition (Re: The src-N proposal)

2013-11-15 Thread Tim Kadlec
To my knowledge the only implementor who flat-out refused to implement src-N was WebKit. There is interest from Mozilla and Blink, though it did sound like Blink was considering playing follow the leader. Take care, Tim Kadlec On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 12:25 PM, Adam Barth w...@adambarth.com

Re: [whatwg] imgset responsive imgs proposition (Re: The src-N proposal)

2013-11-15 Thread Adam Barth
On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 10:32 AM, Tim Kadlec t...@timkadlec.com wrote: To my knowledge the only implementor who flat-out refused to implement src-N was WebKit. There is interest from Mozilla and Blink, though it did sound like Blink was considering playing follow the leader. That's right.

Re: [whatwg] imgset responsive imgs proposition (Re: The src-N proposal)

2013-11-15 Thread Tab Atkins Jr.
On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 10:40 AM, Tab Atkins Jr. jackalm...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 9:50 AM, Adam Barth w...@adambarth.com wrote: We might even be able to make this work without inventing anything: style type=text/css @media (min-width: 480px) { .artdirected { width:

Re: [whatwg] imgset responsive imgs proposition (Re: The src-N proposal)

2013-11-15 Thread Adam Barth
On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 12:30 PM, Tab Atkins Jr. jackalm...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 10:40 AM, Tab Atkins Jr. jackalm...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 9:50 AM, Adam Barth w...@adambarth.com wrote: We might even be able to make this work without inventing anything:

Re: [whatwg] imgset responsive imgs proposition (Re: The src-N proposal)

2013-11-15 Thread Timothy Hatcher
On Nov 15, 2013, at 12:30 PM, Tab Atkins Jr. jackalm...@gmail.com wrote: Use-case 1: Variable density. src-N img src-1=foo.5 .5x, foo1 1x, foo2 2x, foo3 3x src=foo1 PreloaderCSS img src=foo1 id=foo style #foo { content: replaced image-set(foo.5 .5x, foo1 1x, foo2 2x, foo3 3x); }

Re: [whatwg] imgset responsive imgs proposition (Re: The src-N proposal)

2013-11-15 Thread Tab Atkins Jr.
On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 12:39 PM, Adam Barth w...@adambarth.com wrote: Do you have an alternative proposal aside from src-N? Recall that src-N has been rejected by WebKit and therefore is no longer viable. As far as I've been able to divine, Apple's position is do nothing, because srcset is

Re: [whatwg] imgset responsive imgs proposition (Re: The src-N proposal)

2013-11-15 Thread Tab Atkins Jr.
On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 1:05 PM, Timothy Hatcher timo...@apple.com wrote: On Nov 15, 2013, at 12:30 PM, Tab Atkins Jr. jackalm...@gmail.com wrote: Use-case 1: Variable density. src-N img src-1=foo.5 .5x, foo1 1x, foo2 2x, foo3 3x src=foo1 PreloaderCSS img src=foo1 id=foo style #foo {

Re: [whatwg] imgset responsive imgs proposition (Re: The src-N proposal)

2013-11-15 Thread Ian Hickson
On Fri, 15 Nov 2013, Tab Atkins Jr. wrote: These examples... do not look good. I presume you mean that they don't look good in the style case, but actually, I don't know if that's accurate. Don't forget that in many cases the page will have multiple such images. You have to duplicated the

Re: [whatwg] imgset responsive imgs proposition (Re: The src-N proposal)

2013-11-15 Thread Timothy Hatcher
On Nov 15, 2013, at 1:28 PM, Tab Atkins Jr. jackalm...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 1:05 PM, Timothy Hatcher timo...@apple.com wrote: On Nov 15, 2013, at 12:30 PM, Tab Atkins Jr. jackalm...@gmail.com wrote: Use-case 1: Variable density. src-N img src-1=foo.5 .5x, foo1 1x, foo2

Re: [whatwg] imgset responsive imgs proposition (Re: The src-N proposal)

2013-11-15 Thread Tab Atkins Jr.
On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 2:39 PM, Ian Hickson i...@hixie.ch wrote: On Fri, 15 Nov 2013, Tab Atkins Jr. wrote: These examples... do not look good. I presume you mean that they don't look good in the style case, but actually, I don't know if that's accurate. Don't forget that in many cases the

Re: [whatwg] imgset responsive imgs proposition (Re: The src-N proposal)

2013-11-15 Thread Bjoern Hoehrmann
* Tab Atkins Jr. wrote: On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 2:39 PM, Ian Hickson i...@hixie.ch wrote: On Fri, 15 Nov 2013, Tab Atkins Jr. wrote: These examples... do not look good. I presume you mean that they don't look good in the style case, but actually, I don't know if that's accurate. Don't forget

Re: [whatwg] imgset responsive imgs proposition (Re: The src-N proposal)

2013-11-15 Thread Tab Atkins Jr.
On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 2:49 PM, Bjoern Hoehrmann derhoe...@gmx.net wrote: * Tab Atkins Jr. wrote: On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 2:39 PM, Ian Hickson i...@hixie.ch wrote: On Fri, 15 Nov 2013, Tab Atkins Jr. wrote: These examples... do not look good. I presume you mean that they don't look good in

Re: [whatwg] imgset responsive imgs proposition (Re: The src-N proposal)

2013-11-15 Thread Tab Atkins Jr.
On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 2:39 PM, Timothy Hatcher timo...@apple.com wrote: On Nov 15, 2013, at 1:28 PM, Tab Atkins Jr. jackalm...@gmail.com wrote: You can s/src-1/srcset/ this example; the two are identical for this use-case. I was saying srcset would naturally better here instead of style in

Re: [whatwg] imgset responsive imgs proposition (Re: The src-N proposal)

2013-11-15 Thread Tab Atkins Jr.
On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 12:39 PM, Adam Barth w...@adambarth.com wrote: Do you have an alternative proposal aside from src-N? Recall that src-N has been rejected by WebKit and therefore is no longer viable. Hey, WebKit, what's your answer if we just take src-N and use a || separator to cram

Re: [whatwg] imgset responsive imgs proposition (Re: The src-N proposal)

2013-11-15 Thread Bruno Racineux
On 11/13/13 5:52 AM, John Mellor joh...@google.com wrote: style @media (max-width: 19.99em) { .artdirected { content: replaced image-set(128px; attr(srcs-smallicon)); } } @media (min-width: 20em) { .artdirected { content: replaced image-set(100% (30em) 50% (50em) 33%;

Re: [whatwg] imgset responsive imgs proposition (Re: The src-N proposal)

2013-11-15 Thread Bruno Racineux
On 11/15/13 2:50 PM, Tab Atkins Jr. jackalm...@gmail.com wrote: There is no compaction scheme that helps here. (Unless you're trying for one of the url-template ones, and we don't want to go there.) Why not? I'd like to hear the argument against what I am proposing. Either a regex or a

Re: [whatwg] imgset responsive imgs proposition (Re: The src-N proposal)

2013-11-15 Thread Tab Atkins Jr.
On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 3:02 PM, Bruno Racineux br...@hexanet.net wrote: On 11/15/13 1:28 PM, Tab Atkins Jr. jackalm...@gmail.com wrote: Why would you be using classes? Most images that you need to make responsive are one-off content images, like the big picture in

Re: [whatwg] imgset responsive imgs proposition (Re: The src-N proposal)

2013-11-15 Thread Timothy Hatcher
On Nov 15, 2013, at 3:23 PM, Tab Atkins Jr. jackalm...@gmail.com wrote: The simplest one isn't much worse, granted. It suffers from the put an id on it that makes working with label/input a minor chore, but otherwise is mostly just shifting things around. Sure you can use ids. But the idea

Re: [whatwg] imgset responsive imgs proposition (Re: The src-N proposal)

2013-11-15 Thread Tab Atkins Jr.
[whatever mail program you're using is doing quoting terribly, so I have to correct it afterwards] On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 3:42 PM, Timothy Hatcher timo...@apple.com wrote: On Nov 15, 2013, at 3:23 PM, Tab Atkins Jr. jackalm...@gmail.com wrote: Not really. PreloaderCSS gives you two choices,

Re: [whatwg] imgset responsive imgs proposition (Re: The src-N proposal)

2013-11-15 Thread Bruno Racineux
On 11/15/13 3:23 PM, Tab Atkins Jr. jackalm...@gmail.com wrote: I don't understand. You don't repeat any sources, you specify them once. There's just a batch of sources per image. Can't make this more compact. What I mean is that with src-N you will have to repeat the paths AND the full

Re: [whatwg] imgset responsive imgs proposition (Re: The src-N proposal)

2013-11-15 Thread Bruno Racineux
It does not require the preloader to have full css parser. It only has to parse @media and the new @imgset CSS subset language, using a similar syntax to @media. And I believe if offer an easy way to polyfill this. This isn't as terrible for polyfilling, since it's easier to spot things and

Re: [whatwg] imgset responsive imgs proposition (Re: The src-N proposal)

2013-11-13 Thread Silvia Pfeiffer
On 13 Nov 2013 11:33, Jirka Kosek ji...@kosek.cz wrote: On 13.11.2013 2:56, Christian Biesinger wrote: For a bit more presentation, and while we're inventing new syntax anyway, how about this: style @media (min-width: 480px) { .artdirected { content: replaced url(attr(src-small));

Re: [whatwg] imgset responsive imgs proposition (Re: The src-N proposal)

2013-11-13 Thread John Mellor
One-dimensional solutions like this look pretty but once you combine width and device-pixel-ratio (resolution) it quickly explodes and you get num_widths * num_dprs entries. Please read xanthir.com/b4Su0, at least the example at the bottom showing how srcset quickly gets impractical. If you want

Re: [whatwg] imgset responsive imgs proposition (Re: The src-N proposal)

2013-11-13 Thread D. Pitchford
On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 12:50 PM, Adam Barth w...@adambarth.com wrote: On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 9:22 AM, Markus Ernst derer...@gmx.ch wrote: Am 12.11.2013 17:48 schrieb Markus Lanthaler: On Tuesday, November 12, 2013 5:04 PM, Markus Ernst wrote: We could define some ways to list set of

Re: [whatwg] imgset responsive imgs proposition (Re: The src-N proposal)

2013-11-13 Thread Markus Ernst
Am 13.11.2013 14:52 schrieb John Mellor: style @media (max-width: 19.99em) { .artdirected { content: replaced image-set(128px; attr(srcs-smallicon)); } } @media (min-width: 20em) { .artdirected { content: replaced image-set(100% (30em) 50% (50em) 33%; attr(srcs-flexwidth)); } } /style

Re: [whatwg] imgset responsive imgs proposition (Re: The src-N proposal)

2013-11-13 Thread Jirka Kosek
On 13.11.2013 13:48, Silvia Pfeiffer wrote: img class=artdirected src=foo.jpg src-small=foo-small.jpg src-medium=foo-medium.jpg src-big=foo-big.jpg Do you expect that there will be just predefined set of src-* attributes or user can define as many of them as he/she wants and use arbitrary

Re: [whatwg] imgset responsive imgs proposition (Re: The src-N proposal)

2013-11-12 Thread Jukka K. Korpela
2013-11-12 9:58, Adam Barth wrote: Unfortunately, we can't add new tags to head. If the parser sees a tag it doesn't recognize in the head, it creates a fake body tag and pushes the tag down into the body. But you could use style type=text/foobar.../style, with a suitable value for foobar,

Re: [whatwg] imgset responsive imgs proposition (Re: The src-N proposal)

2013-11-12 Thread Adam Barth
On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 12:08 AM, Jukka K. Korpela jkorp...@cs.tut.fi wrote: 2013-11-12 9:58, Adam Barth wrote: Unfortunately, we can't add new tags to head. If the parser sees a tag it doesn't recognize in the head, it creates a fake body tag and pushes the tag down into the body. But you

Re: [whatwg] imgset responsive imgs proposition (Re: The src-N proposal)

2013-11-12 Thread Anselm Hannemann
On 12.11.2013, at 09:11, Adam Barth w...@adambarth.com wrote: On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 12:08 AM, Jukka K. Korpela jkorp...@cs.tut.fi wrote: 2013-11-12 9:58, Adam Barth wrote: Unfortunately, we can't add new tags to head. If the parser sees a tag it doesn't recognize in the head, it creates a

Re: [whatwg] imgset responsive imgs proposition (Re: The src-N proposal)

2013-11-12 Thread Anselm Hannemann
On 12.11.2013, at 09:08, Jukka K. Korpela jkorp...@cs.tut.fi wrote: 2013-11-12 9:58, Adam Barth wrote: Unfortunately, we can't add new tags to head. If the parser sees a tag it doesn't recognize in the head, it creates a fake body tag and pushes the tag down into the body. But you could

Re: [whatwg] imgset responsive imgs proposition (Re: The src-N proposal)

2013-11-12 Thread Adam Barth
On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 12:29 AM, Jukka K. Korpela jkorp...@cs.tut.fi wrote: 2013-11-12 10:14, Anselm Hannemann wrote: no, a preload scanner will never (okay, never say never) interpret CSS. This is against the rule of it to improve performance before interpreting layout. This whole thing is

Re: [whatwg] imgset responsive imgs proposition (Re: The src-N proposal)

2013-11-12 Thread Tab Atkins Jr.
On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 5:33 AM, Ryosuke Niwa rn...@apple.com wrote: On Nov 12, 2013, at 4:11 PM, Adam Barth w...@adambarth.com wrote: On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 12:08 AM, Jukka K. Korpela jkorp...@cs.tut.fi wrote: 2013-11-12 9:58, Adam Barth wrote: Unfortunately, we can't add new tags to head.

Re: [whatwg] imgset responsive imgs proposition (Re: The src-N proposal)

2013-11-12 Thread Markus Ernst
Am 12.11.2013 14:33 schrieb Ryosuke Niwa: On Nov 12, 2013, at 4:11 PM, Adam Barth w...@adambarth.com wrote: On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 12:08 AM, Jukka K. Korpela jkorp...@cs.tut.fi wrote: 2013-11-12 9:58, Adam Barth wrote: Unfortunately, we can't add new tags to head. If the parser sees a tag

Re: [whatwg] imgset responsive imgs proposition (Re: The src-N proposal)

2013-11-12 Thread Jukka K. Korpela
2013-11-12 17:52, Tab Atkins Jr. wrote: No, we can't gate any of the major use-cases behind a time barrier (waiting for external CSS to come in) like that. Why does it need to be *external* CSS? Surely external style sheets are generally preferred, but if you want inline code, what is the

Re: [whatwg] imgset responsive imgs proposition (Re: The src-N proposal)

2013-11-12 Thread Markus Lanthaler
On Tuesday, November 12, 2013 5:04 PM, Markus Ernst wrote: We could define some ways to list set of images that could be replaced for a given img element in HTML and then let CSS pick which one to use for example. style type=text/css @media (min-width: 480px) { img.artdirected {

Re: [whatwg] imgset responsive imgs proposition (Re: The src-N proposal)

2013-11-12 Thread Markus Ernst
Am 12.11.2013 17:48 schrieb Markus Lanthaler: On Tuesday, November 12, 2013 5:04 PM, Markus Ernst wrote: We could define some ways to list set of images that could be replaced for a given img element in HTML and then let CSS pick which one to use for example. style type=text/css @media

Re: [whatwg] imgset responsive imgs proposition (Re: The src-N proposal)

2013-11-12 Thread Adam Barth
On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 9:22 AM, Markus Ernst derer...@gmx.ch wrote: Am 12.11.2013 17:48 schrieb Markus Lanthaler: On Tuesday, November 12, 2013 5:04 PM, Markus Ernst wrote: We could define some ways to list set of images that could be replaced for a given img element in HTML and then let

Re: [whatwg] imgset responsive imgs proposition (Re: The src-N proposal)

2013-11-12 Thread Markus Lanthaler
On Tuesday, November 12, 2013 6:50 PM, Adam Barth wrote: We might even be able to make this work without inventing anything: style type=text/css @media (min-width: 480px) { .artdirected { width: 30px; height: 30px; background-image: image-set(url(small.png) 1x,

Re: [whatwg] imgset responsive imgs proposition (Re: The src-N proposal)

2013-11-12 Thread matmarquis.com
This is possible using a set of proposals already underway, last I checked in on them: http://nicolasgallagher.com/responsive-images-using-css3/ Considering the delay involved in skipping the preparser and waiting for CSS to download (as well as the fact that the `src` *will* be prefetched,

Re: [whatwg] imgset responsive imgs proposition (Re: The src-N proposal)

2013-11-12 Thread Tab Atkins Jr.
On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 9:50 AM, Adam Barth w...@adambarth.com wrote: We might even be able to make this work without inventing anything: style type=text/css @media (min-width: 480px) { .artdirected { width: 30px; height: 30px; background-image: image-set(url(small.png) 1x,

Re: [whatwg] imgset responsive imgs proposition (Re: The src-N proposal)

2013-11-12 Thread Adam Barth
On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 10:17 AM, Markus Lanthaler markus.lantha...@gmx.net wrote: On Tuesday, November 12, 2013 6:50 PM, Adam Barth wrote: We might even be able to make this work without inventing anything: style type=text/css @media (min-width: 480px) { .artdirected { width: 30px;

Re: [whatwg] imgset responsive imgs proposition (Re: The src-N proposal)

2013-11-12 Thread Anselm Hannemann
Really? An empty div element? What about accessibility or When CSS cannot be loaded? What if only html is grabbed by another page? It doesn't seem to be a really solid solution in my opinion. Anselm On 12 Nov 2013, at 19:40, Tab Atkins Jr. jackalm...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Nov 12,

Re: [whatwg] imgset responsive imgs proposition (Re: The src-N proposal)

2013-11-12 Thread John Mellor
On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 5:50 PM, Adam Barth w...@adambarth.com wrote: We might even be able to make this work without inventing anything: style type=text/css @media (min-width: 480px) { .artdirected { width: 30px; height: 30px; background-image: image-set(url(small.png) 1x,

Re: [whatwg] imgset responsive imgs proposition (Re: The src-N proposal)

2013-11-12 Thread Tab Atkins Jr.
[Please don't top-post. Quote the relevant parts of the message you're responding to.] On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 10:44 AM, Anselm Hannemann i...@anselm-hannemann.com wrote: On 12 Nov 2013, at 19:40, Tab Atkins Jr. jackalm...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 9:50 AM, Adam Barth

Re: [whatwg] imgset responsive imgs proposition (Re: The src-N proposal)

2013-11-12 Thread Adam Barth
On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 10:40 AM, Tab Atkins Jr. jackalm...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 9:50 AM, Adam Barth w...@adambarth.com wrote: We might even be able to make this work without inventing anything: style type=text/css @media (min-width: 480px) { .artdirected { width:

Re: [whatwg] imgset responsive imgs proposition (Re: The src-N proposal)

2013-11-12 Thread Adam Barth
On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 10:45 AM, John Mellor joh...@google.com wrote: On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 5:50 PM, Adam Barth w...@adambarth.com wrote: We might even be able to make this work without inventing anything: style type=text/css @media (min-width: 480px) { .artdirected { width: 30px;

Re: [whatwg] imgset responsive imgs proposition (Re: The src-N proposal)

2013-11-12 Thread John Mellor
On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 6:54 PM, Adam Barth w...@adambarth.com wrote: On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 10:45 AM, John Mellor joh...@google.com wrote: - Doesn't address viewport-switching (variable-sized images), though we may be able to fix that by extending image-set to support src-N's

Re: [whatwg] imgset responsive imgs proposition (Re: The src-N proposal)

2013-11-12 Thread Tab Atkins Jr.
On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 10:54 AM, Adam Barth w...@adambarth.com wrote: Why doesn't it support variable-sized images? In example above, one of the cases is 30x30 and the other is 60x60. Maybe I've misunderstood what you mean by variable-sized images? It doesn't support a *compact syntax for

Re: [whatwg] imgset responsive imgs proposition (Re: The src-N proposal)

2013-11-12 Thread Steve Faulkner
, Ryosuke Niwa rn...@apple.com Subject: Re: [whatwg] imgset responsive imgs proposition (Re: The src-N proposal) Message-ID: caje5ia_pzceu9prvaxfy--pqbqjh1t7+kfcaw9fuvmk7mfr...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 10:45 AM, John

Re: [whatwg] imgset responsive imgs proposition (Re: The src-N proposal)

2013-11-12 Thread Maciej Stachowiak
On Nov 12, 2013, at 9:50 AM, Adam Barth w...@adambarth.com wrote: On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 9:22 AM, Markus Ernst derer...@gmx.ch wrote: Am 12.11.2013 17:48 schrieb Markus Lanthaler: On Tuesday, November 12, 2013 5:04 PM, Markus Ernst wrote: We could define some ways to list set of images

Re: [whatwg] imgset responsive imgs proposition (Re: The src-N proposal)

2013-11-12 Thread li...@ericportis.com
On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 9:50 AM, Adam Barth w...@adambarth.com (mailto:w...@adambarth.com) wrote: We might even be able to make this work without inventing anything: style type=text/css @media (min-width: 480px) { .artdirected { width: 30px; height: 30px; background-image:

Re: [whatwg] imgset responsive imgs proposition (Re: The src-N proposal)

2013-11-12 Thread Adam Barth
On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 11:38 AM, li...@ericportis.com li...@ericportis.com wrote: On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 9:50 AM, Adam Barth w...@adambarth.com (mailto:w...@adambarth.com) wrote: We might even be able to make this work without inventing anything: style type=text/css @media (min-width:

Re: [whatwg] imgset responsive imgs proposition (Re: The src-N proposal)

2013-11-12 Thread Markus Ernst
Am 12.11.2013 18:50 schrieb Adam Barth: We might even be able to make this work without inventing anything: style type=text/css @media (min-width: 480px) { .artdirected { width: 30px; height: 30px; background-image: image-set(url(small.png) 1x, url(small-hires.png) 2x); } }

Re: [whatwg] imgset responsive imgs proposition (Re: The src-N proposal)

2013-11-12 Thread Yoav Weiss
The hard part is deciding what to put in the optimized subset. We already parse media queries in the preload scanner to find imported stylesheets to load. We probably won't be able to support every media query under the sun, but we could support maybe min-width, min-height, and

Re: [whatwg] imgset responsive imgs proposition (Re: The src-N proposal)

2013-11-12 Thread Bruno Racineux
On 11/12/13 12:11 AM, Adam Barth w...@adambarth.com wrote: On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 12:08 AM, Jukka K. Korpela jkorp...@cs.tut.fi wrote: 2013-11-12 9:58, Adam Barth wrote: Unfortunately, we can't add new tags to head. If the parser sees a tag it doesn't recognize in the head, it creates a

Re: [whatwg] imgset responsive imgs proposition (Re: The src-N proposal)

2013-11-12 Thread Christian Biesinger
On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 3:06 PM, Markus Ernst derer...@gmx.ch wrote: What I don't like about CSS approaches is the fact that changing the source of an image is fundamentally different from changing a dimension or color of an element. This is not presentational in the same way. Having to

Re: [whatwg] imgset responsive imgs proposition (Re: The src-N proposal)

2013-11-12 Thread Silvia Pfeiffer
On Wed, Nov 13, 2013 at 9:56 AM, Christian Biesinger cbiesin...@google.com wrote: On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 3:06 PM, Markus Ernst derer...@gmx.ch wrote: What I don't like about CSS approaches is the fact that changing the source of an image is fundamentally different from changing a dimension or

Re: [whatwg] imgset responsive imgs proposition (Re: The src-N proposal)

2013-11-12 Thread Timothy Hatcher
On Nov 12, 2013, at 6:09 PM, Silvia Pfeiffer silviapfeiff...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Nov 13, 2013 at 9:56 AM, Christian Biesinger cbiesin...@google.com wrote: On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 3:06 PM, Markus Ernst derer...@gmx.ch wrote: What I don't like about CSS approaches is the fact that changing

Re: [whatwg] imgset responsive imgs proposition (Re: The src-N proposal)

2013-11-12 Thread Jirka Kosek
On 13.11.2013 2:56, Christian Biesinger wrote: For a bit more presentation, and while we're inventing new syntax anyway, how about this: style @media (min-width: 480px) { .artdirected { content: replaced url(attr(src-small)); } ... /style ... img class=artdirected src=foo.jpg

[whatwg] imgset responsive imgs proposition (Re: The src-N proposal)

2013-11-11 Thread Bruno Racineux
Here is a complementary approach to the src-N syntax, I'd like to present for discussion. The goal is: 1. Address all use cases in a similar way as src-N does without the 'N' part. 2. Cut the verbose to a 'strict' minimum with reusable OO definitions. 3. Provide a vocabulary that is easy to

Re: [whatwg] imgset responsive imgs proposition (Re: The src-N proposal)

2013-11-11 Thread Adam Barth
Unfortunately, we can't add new tags to head. If the parser sees a tag it doesn't recognize in the head, it creates a fake body tag and pushes the tag down into the body. Adam On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 7:43 PM, Bruno Racineux br...@hexanet.net wrote: Here is a complementary approach to the