Re: [WikiEN-l] Wikipedia:Paradoxes

2009-08-10 Thread Jay Litwyn
Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote in message news:b8ceeef70908010746o42498809g41ad3c973fba9...@mail.gmail.com... moderator Does this thread have anything to do with this list? Does anyone care anymore? /moderator This list is about wikipedia and anything that goes into it or comes out

Re: [WikiEN-l] Where does en:wp need most help?

2009-08-10 Thread Jay Litwyn
Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote in message news:b8ceeef70908020616j742cfe6es9f1d6b7fa04b3...@mail.gmail.com... On Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 1:37 AM, David Gerarddger...@gmail.com wrote: Efforts like the Wikipedia Selection for Schools are important to help too (and feed into 0.7 and 1.0).

Re: [WikiEN-l] If anyone ever says Wikipedia is too deletionist

2009-08-10 Thread Andrew Gray
2009/8/9 Carcharoth carcharot...@googlemail.com: So all the biographies of women could be tagged woman? That would work, but only if the woman tag wasn't applied to other things as well. Maybe you would have to have woman + biography? Even then, it might not be exact. And then you would have

Re: [WikiEN-l] If anyone ever says Wikipedia is too deletionist

2009-08-10 Thread David Gerard
2009/8/9 Bod Notbod bodnot...@gmail.com: On Sun, Aug 9, 2009 at 12:47 PM, David Gerarddger...@gmail.com wrote: The problem being discussed in this thread would be solved by the feature (much-desired by Commons) of turning categories into tags - so that e.g. [[Category:Left-handed dead Jewish

Re: [WikiEN-l] If anyone ever says Wikipedia is too deletionist

2009-08-10 Thread Carcharoth
On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 11:40 AM, Andrew Grayandrew.g...@dunelm.org.uk wrote: 2009/8/9 Carcharoth carcharot...@googlemail.com: So all the biographies of women could be tagged woman? That would work, but only if the woman tag wasn't applied to other things as well. Maybe you would have to have

Re: [WikiEN-l] If anyone ever says Wikipedia is too deletionist

2009-08-10 Thread Charles Matthews
Andrew Gray wrote: 2009/8/9 Carcharoth carcharot...@googlemail.com: So all the biographies of women could be tagged woman? That would work, but only if the woman tag wasn't applied to other things as well. Maybe you would have to have woman + biography? Even then, it might not be exact.

Re: [WikiEN-l] If anyone ever says Wikipedia is too deletionist

2009-08-10 Thread Carcharoth
On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 1:42 PM, Charles Matthewscharles.r.matth...@ntlworld.com wrote: snip Nice example there of where en-wiki's classification systems are better. Some people would, of course, create a K-theory navbox template. Does de-wiki have those navboxes? More comprehensibly

Re: [WikiEN-l] If anyone ever says Wikipedia is too deletionist

2009-08-10 Thread Andrew Gray
2009/8/9 Carcharoth carcharot...@googlemail.com: If anyone could hazard a guess at how many of the 725,635 biographies we have where there might be a dispute over gender, that would be good (note that for some reason that figure, from the WikiProject Biography statistics, includes music

Re: [WikiEN-l] Usability testing (Try Beta)

2009-08-10 Thread Nathan
I think Vector is the skin, and Acai is the usability initiative. A remember reading a blog post where Vector was described as the first element in Acai. Vector itself has been available as a skin for awhile. It's a neat skin, I like it, but I find that I rely (as an editor) on the many gadgets

Re: [WikiEN-l] Online Newspapers Considering Subscription Model

2009-08-10 Thread Surreptitiousness
This conversation seems to be getting a little steeped in attack mode, doesn't it? I mean, if we take a step back, do we verify everything we read ever period? The fact that you just read this email seems to suggest no, actually we don't. So my question at this point in the debate would be

Re: [WikiEN-l] If anyone ever says Wikipedia is too deletionist

2009-08-10 Thread Magnus Manske
On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 11:53 AM, David Gerarddger...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/8/9 Bod Notbod bodnot...@gmail.com: On Sun, Aug 9, 2009 at 12:47 PM, David Gerarddger...@gmail.com wrote: The problem being discussed in this thread would be solved by the feature (much-desired by Commons) of turning

Re: [WikiEN-l] Online Newspapers Considering Subscription Model

2009-08-10 Thread Emily Monroe
This conversation seems to be getting a little steeped in attack mode, doesn't it? That was an honest, legitimate hypothetical question of mine. I addressed it primarily to Will, and secondarily to everybody. I never mean to attack anyone. I wouldn't live with my conscious if I had

Re: [WikiEN-l] If anyone ever says Wikipedia is too deletionist

2009-08-10 Thread Surreptitiousness
Carcharoth wrote: Tags and categories are different. Ideally, you would have both, or a clear of idea of what would be primary tags (what we call categories) and what are descriptive tags. I asked about flickr tags years ago, but never understood the replies I got, see:

Re: [WikiEN-l] Wikipedia was founded for OR

2009-08-10 Thread Joseph Reagle
On Friday 07 August 2009, Charles Matthews wrote: The story about Kira fills in something Jimbo mentioned before, though. I gave up a while ago on thinking the early history of WP was something a historian could completely elucidate. This story adds another layer to the question of the

Re: [WikiEN-l] Online Newspapers Considering Subscription Model

2009-08-10 Thread Surreptitiousness
Emily Monroe wrote: This conversation seems to be getting a little steeped in attack mode, doesn't it? That was an honest, legitimate hypothetical question of mine. I addressed it primarily to Will, and secondarily to everybody. I never mean to attack anyone. I wouldn't live with

Re: [WikiEN-l] Online Newspapers Considering Subscription Model

2009-08-10 Thread Emily Monroe
I apologise for making it unclear that I was talking about the tone of the conversation as a whole rather than your comments specifically. I think you're right. You WERE talking about the conversation as a whole. However, I interpreted your comments as This whole debate is in attack mode,

Re: [WikiEN-l] Usability testing (Try Beta)

2009-08-10 Thread Peter Coombe
2009/8/10 Nathan nawr...@gmail.com I think Vector is the skin, and Acai is the usability initiative. A remember reading a blog post where Vector was described as the first element in Acai. Acai is just the codename for the first release of the usability initiative. Vector is indeed the skin

Re: [WikiEN-l] If anyone ever says Wikipedia is too deletionist

2009-08-10 Thread Magnus Manske
On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 3:54 PM, Carcharothcarcharot...@googlemail.com wrote: Is there a summary of what's changed? Well, it's completely new, so check out the manual link on the page, and the original requirements, which have been met or exceeded:

Re: [WikiEN-l] If anyone ever says Wikipedia is too deletionist

2009-08-10 Thread Carcharoth
On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 3:24 PM, Magnus Manskemagnusman...@googlemail.com wrote: http://toolserver.org/~magnus/catscan_rewrite.php? sigh I've been trying for 10 minutes to get it to locate articles in a category tree but missing a specific WikiProject tag, but either it's not working, or I'm

Re: [WikiEN-l] If anyone ever says Wikipedia is too deletionist

2009-08-10 Thread Carcharoth
On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 5:04 PM, Magnus Manskemagnusman...@googlemail.com wrote: snip It's explained on the manual page - just append |2 to the category you want to use with a different depth (in this example, 2). blush Would you believe I completely missed that link to the manual? :-/

Re: [WikiEN-l] If anyone ever says Wikipedia is too deletionist

2009-08-10 Thread Carcharoth
On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 5:04 PM, Magnus Manskemagnusman...@googlemail.com wrote: On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 3:54 PM, Carcharothcarcharot...@googlemail.com wrote: Is there a summary of what's changed? Well, it's completely new, so check out the manual link on the page, and the original

Re: [WikiEN-l] Usability testing (Try Beta)

2009-08-10 Thread Nathan
Hey you're right. I suppose I forgot it was there and only noticed it again because I was actually paying attention to the interface. Thanks, Nathan On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 11:14 AM, Peter Coombe I particularly like the left-hand navbar links to featured content. Monobook has this as well

Re: [WikiEN-l] Online Newspapers Considering Subscription Model

2009-08-10 Thread David Goodman
Why might it not become as reliable as any other magazine discussing media? It depends on the quality of the editing. David Goodman, Ph.D, M.L.S. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:DGG On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 2:22 PM, Ken Arromdeearrom...@rahul.net wrote: On Sun, 9 Aug 2009

Re: [WikiEN-l] If anyone ever says Wikipedia is too deletionist

2009-08-10 Thread Magnus Manske
On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 5:25 PM, Carcharothcarcharot...@googlemail.com wrote: On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 5:04 PM, Magnus Manskemagnusman...@googlemail.com wrote: On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 3:54 PM, Carcharothcarcharot...@googlemail.com wrote: Is there a summary of what's changed? Well, it's

Re: [WikiEN-l] If anyone ever says Wikipedia is too deletionist

2009-08-10 Thread Magnus Manske
On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 5:25 PM, Carcharothcarcharot...@googlemail.com wrote: On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 5:04 PM, Magnus Manskemagnusman...@googlemail.com wrote: On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 3:54 PM, Carcharothcarcharot...@googlemail.com wrote: Is there a summary of what's changed? Well, it's

Re: [WikiEN-l] Usability testing (Try Beta)

2009-08-10 Thread Steve Bennett
On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 4:36 AM, Casey Brownli...@caseybrown.org wrote: Which you can ignore.  It's beta-testing, the whole point is to gather feedback and make things better, so I don't have a problem with it. :-) On the subject, when you click beta feedback, one of the questions is:

Re: [WikiEN-l] Usability testing (Try Beta)

2009-08-10 Thread Naoko Komura
Steve Bennett wrote: On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 4:36 AM, Casey Brownli...@caseybrown.org wrote: Which you can ignore. It's beta-testing, the whole point is to gather feedback and make things better, so I don't have a problem with it. :-) On the subject, when you click beta feedback,

Re: [WikiEN-l] Where does en:wp need most help?

2009-08-10 Thread Steve Bennett
On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 10:06 AM, Carcharothcarcharot...@googlemail.com wrote: Either more accurate assessments, or the article standards are slipping. :-( Or the definitions of the standards are being raised. It's hard to tell which is the case though, as there's no obvious way to find out which

Re: [WikiEN-l] If anyone ever says Wikipedia is too deletionist

2009-08-10 Thread Carcharoth
On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 11:05 PM, Magnus Manskemagnusman...@googlemail.com wrote: On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 5:25 PM, Carcharothcarcharot...@googlemail.com wrote: On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 5:04 PM, Magnus Manskemagnusman...@googlemail.com wrote: On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 3:54 PM,

Re: [WikiEN-l] Lies, damned lies, and statistics

2009-08-10 Thread Jay Litwyn
Durova nadezhda.dur...@gmail.com quoted Samuel Clemens in message news:a01006d90904151712x2e95f41r9c2dcf17a4dcb...@mail.gmail.com... There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics. - Mark Twain In book called They never said it!, that is identified as apocryphal, which

[WikiEN-l] http://euobserver.com/883/28232

2009-08-10 Thread Jay Litwyn
Subject-Was: GFDL compliance Speculative Addressee: webmaster at website in URL. The photo at the top, of Westminster Abbey? It is not carefully cited regarding the source. Could I ask you to pull the photo from wikipedia again to get a more ultimate source? If you click on the photo, then you

Re: [WikiEN-l] GDFL compliance

2009-08-10 Thread Jay Litwyn
Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote in message news:b8ceeef70906112226t56603352y27a9fc22fbea9...@mail.gmail.com... On Sat, Jun 6, 2009 at 2:26 AM, Sam Kornsmo...@gmail.com wrote: (Photo: a href=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Houses_of_Parliament.jpg;Wikipedia/a) I imagine that would

Re: [WikiEN-l] GDFL compliance

2009-08-10 Thread Jay Litwyn
Ray Saintonge sainto...@telus.net wrote in message news:4a32892b.90...@telus.net... Sam Korn wrote: On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 6:26 AM, Steve Bennett wrote: On Sat, Jun 6, 2009 at 2:26 AM, Sam Korn wrote: (Photo: a href=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Houses_of_Parliament.jpg;Wikipedia/a)

Re: [WikiEN-l] GDFL compliance

2009-08-10 Thread Jay Litwyn
Andrew Turvey andrewrtur...@googlemail.com wrote in message news:5465232.561244846011734.javamail.sys...@atsl_laptop... - Unionhawk unionhawk.site...@gmail.com wrote: Well, I mean, what difference does it make? I guess it probably should have a link, but, honestly, with the number of

Re: [WikiEN-l] GDFL compliance

2009-08-10 Thread Jay Litwyn
AGK wiki...@googlemail.com wrote in message news:a342424e0906051009g38d27b9dked2193916a6dc...@mail.gmail.com... If not, is there a group of people somewhere who chase up copyvios like this? I suppose the Free Software Foundation would be the body responsible for chasing up copyright

Re: [WikiEN-l] Report a Problem hack

2009-08-10 Thread Jay Litwyn
The problem with popups is that even Explorer Six can completely disable them or enable them for specific sites (my setting approves about ten sites), so I ask what is wrong with the talk page? Maybe there should be an Add To Talk Page button or tab on the article, so that you do not need to

Re: [WikiEN-l] The end of donations

2009-08-10 Thread Jay Litwyn
stevertigo stv...@gmail.com wrote in message news:7c402e010907301615q7f86e8a1v5edb56ced5a80...@mail.gmail.com... Sorry, thought this was going to foundation-l. -S On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 3:14 PM, stevertigostv...@gmail.com wrote: It occurs to me that when people donate money to something,

Re: [WikiEN-l] Wikipedia:Paradoxes

2009-08-10 Thread Jay Litwyn
wjhon...@aol.com wrote in message news:cd5.55c9d341.37a65...@aol.com... I know you are trying to be rigorous, but your logic has far too many assumptions to be so. Firstly you assume that a property is eternal. Predicate logic would probably assume that if A exists, than that does not change,

[WikiEN-l] IRC office hours - Strategic Planning

2009-08-10 Thread Philippe Beaudette
It's that time again - Strategic Planning IRC office hours! This week's office hours will be: Wednesday from 04:00-05:00 UTC, which is: Tuesday, 9-10pm PDT Wednesday, 12am-1am EDT For more information, go to http://strategy.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_Office_Hours Hope to see you there!

Re: [WikiEN-l] The end of donations

2009-08-10 Thread Samuel Klein
On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 11:23 AM, Jay Litwynbrewh...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca wrote: stevertigo stv...@gmail.com wrote in message On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 3:14 PM, stevertigostv...@gmail.com wrote: It occurs to me that when people donate money to something, it is to some degree with an

Re: [WikiEN-l] Report a Problem hack

2009-08-10 Thread Samuel Klein
On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 9:01 PM, Emily Monroebluecalioc...@me.com wrote: I'd like it. Good for new page patrollers'. +1 for neat little pop-ups and easy error reporting. Can we also do something like this to report general interface and software bugs? SJ

Re: [WikiEN-l] Report a Problem hack

2009-08-10 Thread Steve Bennett
On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 10:59 AM, Erik Moellere...@wikimedia.org wrote: It clearly requires a lot of maintenance of said error reports page to pull something like this off, but perhaps it would be worth trying out for a while? Definitely. Now, perhaps I'm too old and cynical, but with all these

Re: [WikiEN-l] Report a Problem hack

2009-08-10 Thread Brian
On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 9:08 AM, Jay Litwyn brewh...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca wrote: The problem with popups is that even Explorer Six can completely disable them or enable them for specific sites. Unlikely, it's not a real popup. They use javascript to float a div which contains a form on top

Re: [WikiEN-l] If anyone ever says Wikipedia is too deletionist

2009-08-10 Thread Samuel Klein
On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 9:29 AM, Steve Bennettstevag...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 12:21 PM, Carcharothcarcharot...@googlemail.com wrote: But still? A local library? I find it useful to look at things in context with other similar institutions. So, I try and think of famous

Re: [WikiEN-l] Lies, damned lies, and statistics

2009-08-10 Thread Steve Bennett
On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 1:29 AM, Anthonywikim...@inbox.org wrote: Is Wales sole founder?  I don't think you can come up with a reasonable definition of founder by which that is true. I would make the following observations based on my reading: 1) Wales' role in the genesis of Wikipedia is much

Re: [WikiEN-l] http://euobserver.com/883/28232

2009-08-10 Thread Steve Bennett
Sorry, what? I see that the photo at the top of that URL is the same as this one: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Houses.of.parliament.overall.arp.jpg That one is listed as public domain - so they don't even have to credit it. It says an Adrian Pingstone took the photo in 2005 and

Re: [WikiEN-l] Lies, damned lies, and statistics

2009-08-10 Thread wjhonson
None of this really matters because we all love Jimbo and we don't like Sanger. I mean, all else aside, Jimbo contributed a huge amount to Wikipedia basically out of a desire to help the human race. Sanger made Citizendium out of a desire to piss off Jimbo. Uh I wouldn't be so fast to assume