Re: [Wikitech-l] Changes in colors of user interface

Hi Pine, That's a really interesting question you bring up, that people develop associations between colors and exact positions on the screen, so that moving or discoloring a button will jar them out of a pleasant, easy to anticipate experience, and will invalidate some of what they learned,

Re: [Wikitech-l] Changes in colors of user interface

Hi Peachy, As an example of a potential high-impact color change that would result in a need to change documentation, I recall a proposal to change all red links to a different color. I don't recall the user's reasoning for the proposed change, but that is one situation where I believe that color

Re: [Wikitech-l] Changes in colors of user interface

Hi Volker, Thanks very much for your explanation. I hope that I have explained adequately that the difficulty that I see here isn't with the change itself, but rather with communication and consultation. An issue that I'm still trying to wrap my head around is that it's impossible for me (and I

Re: [Wikitech-l] Changes in colors of user interface

Hi Pine, Any chance to provide information or examples of these documents that would need to be replaced if/when colours are changed? To my knowledge, There is no where in MediaWiki core that relies on colour only to convey information to the clients/end users. The colour is used to enhance

Re: [Wikitech-l] Changes in colors of user interface

I have delayed responding to this thread until I felt that I could do with some degree of calmness. I view UI changes that affect millions of pages as a big deal. I realize that from a developer's perspective it may seem trivial to change a color setting. Let me try to illustrate a different

Re: [Wikitech-l] Changes in colors of user interface

I get the reasons for the standardization, and the (usability) reasons for the selection of the colours. For a lot of wikis, they'll be (mostly) irrelevant because of the degree of customization, either at the wiki-wide level, or on an individual use-case level; a lot of people won't even notice.

Re: [Wikitech-l] Changes in colors of user interface

Hi, my name is Volker, I’m part of the Editing department on the Design team and I’m leading the UI Standardization efforts at the Foundation. I would like to address Pine's original response about community involvement – when I've started my employment at the Foundation one of the first things

Re: [Wikitech-l] Changes in colors of user interface

Strainu and Pine: If developers learn they can't trust you to distinguish reasonable expectations from unreasonable ones (this falls into the "ludicrously unreasonable" category, by the way), don't be surprised if they ultimately start to doubt even your legitimate complaints. There are very

Re: [Wikitech-l] Changes in colors of user interface

2016-12-12 10:21 GMT+02:00 Quim Gil : > Hi, let me check this incident under the light of the Technical > Collaboration Guideline > (draft > under review, feedback welcome in the related discussion pages). > >

Re: [Wikitech-l] Changes in colors of user interface

Hi, let me check this incident under the light of the Technical Collaboration Guideline (draft under review, feedback welcome in the related discussion pages).

Re: [Wikitech-l] Changes in colors of user interface

On Sun, 2016-12-11 at 19:48 +0200, Strainu wrote: > People claimed in this thread > that your change was "almost invisible". But if just 1:1,000,000 > pageviews causes someone to notice the change, in just a month, your > change will have affected  over 15,000 people. That's singnificant, > IMHO.

Re: [Wikitech-l] Changes in colors of user interface

2016-12-11 12:13 GMT+02:00 Amir Ladsgroup : > On Sat, Dec 10, 2016 at 3:19 PM Strainu wrote: > > For 3 reasons: > 1. While MW is open source, what gets deployed on the WMF servers is > the legal and moral responsability of the Foundation. > > They have

Re: [Wikitech-l] Changes in colors of user interface

On Sat, Dec 10, 2016 at 3:19 PM Strainu wrote: For 3 reasons: 1. While MW is open source, what gets deployed on the WMF servers is the legal and moral responsability of the Foundation. They have responsibility but it's limited. 2. The WMF has an 8-person "Community

Re: [Wikitech-l] Changes in colors of user interface

On 10 December 2016 at 01:25, Pine W wrote: > Surprise UI changes could, for example, result in thousands of dollars' > worth of instructional videos becoming instantly out of sync with the > real-world user experience. Given the incredibly minor nature of this change (as

Re: [Wikitech-l] Changes in colors of user interface

On Sat, 2016-12-10 at 12:57 +0100, Andre Klapper wrote: > > Is there any reason security has been changed on this file? > > I don't understand or see where "security" (?) was changed. Mea culpa. I should have read all the other messages in this noisy thread first. :-/ Indeed, "Phabricator keeps

Re: [Wikitech-l] Changes in colors of user interface

On Sat, 2016-12-10 at 19:49 +1000, K. Peachey wrote: > On 10 December 2016 at 19:07, Gergo Tisza wrote: > > > > For reference, these are the changes being discussed: > > https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/F5022813 > > Is there any reason this is being discussed on a File compared to a task? Did

Re: [Wikitech-l] Changes in colors of user interface

2016-12-10 12:48 GMT+02:00 Amir Ladsgroup : > I just want you to stop there > > On Sat, Dec 10, 2016 at 2:07 PM Strainu wrote: > >> That's one way to put it. I would rather say that we reacted to yet >> another slip-up in communication from the

Re: [Wikitech-l] Changes in colors of user interface

I just want you to stop there On Sat, Dec 10, 2016 at 2:07 PM Strainu wrote: > That's one way to put it. I would rather say that we reacted to yet > another slip-up in communication from the Foundation. Why is it so > hard for you guys to push the information to wikis? > >

Re: [Wikitech-l] Changes in colors of user interface

2016-12-10 11:07 GMT+02:00 Gergo Tisza : > For reference, these are the changes being discussed: > https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/F5022813 > > > 1) Significantly larger changes than this are happening all the time (the > OOUI-ification of old forms, for example), without

Re: [Wikitech-l] Changes in colors of user interface

On Sat, Dec 10, 2016 at 1:17 AM, Amir Ladsgroup wrote: > It returns permission error to me > Uh, fixed. Looks like Phabricator keeps files private as long as they are not associated to any task. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list

Re: [Wikitech-l] Changes in colors of user interface

On 10 December 2016 at 19:07, Gergo Tisza wrote: > For reference, these are the changes being discussed: > https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/F5022813 Is there any reason this is being discussed on a File compared to a task? Is there any reason security has been changed on

Re: [Wikitech-l] Changes in colors of user interface

On Sat, Dec 10, 2016 at 12:37 PM Gergo Tisza wrote: > ​For reference, these are the changes being discussed: > https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/F5022813 > > It returns permission error to me ___ Wikitech-l mailing list

Re: [Wikitech-l] Changes in colors of user interface

​For reference, these are the changes being discussed: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/F5022813 1) Significantly larger changes than this are happening all the time (the OOUI-ification of old forms, for example), without anyone noticing, so it's pretty clear people are reacting to the

Re: [Wikitech-l] Changes in colors of user interface

2016-12-09 1:45 GMT+01:00 Amir Ladsgroup : > I must explicitly note that I did a little and I don't think I can talk on > behalf of UI-standardization team :) > I think this sentence might have the wrong colour shade, thus it avoided the focus of mind of some folks. That's

Re: [Wikitech-l] Changes in colors of user interface

May I just say if the time ever comes where MediaWiki developers have to submit an RfC, coordinate with local wikis of numerous different languages, and wait weeks for community feedback and consensus for minor UI color changes, then all development would have been brought to a halt. It is that

Re: [Wikitech-l] Changes in colors of user interface

Pine, please chill for once. On Fri, Dec 9, 2016 at 5:40 PM Legoktm wrote: > Hi, > > On 12/09/2016 05:25 PM, Pine W wrote: > > While I appreciate the attempt to be funny, I am not amused in this case. > > Surprise UI changes could, for example, result in thousands of

Re: [Wikitech-l] Changes in colors of user interface

While I appreciate the attempt to be funny, I am not amused in this case. Surprise UI changes could, for example, result in thousands of dollars' worth of instructional videos becoming instantly out of sync with the real-world user experience. Also, users who may have spent considerable time

Re: [Wikitech-l] Changes in colors of user interface

Hi! > seems pretty timely! Or this one: https://xkcd.com/1172/ :) -- Stas Malyshev smalys...@wikimedia.org ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

Re: [Wikitech-l] Changes in colors of user interface

Hi, On 12/09/2016 01:56 PM, Strainu wrote: > 2016-12-09 10:53 GMT+02:00 Amir Ladsgroup : >> But these changes are too small to notice and even smaller to dislike. > > Amir, I believe you've been a wikimedian for too long to really > believe that. No change is to small to be

Re: [Wikitech-l] Changes in colors of user interface

Hi Amir, While I think that you are well-intentioned, you may be underestimating the effects of small changes that are done on a large scale. I believe that color changes to the UI are not urgent changes, and there is every reason to do widespread communication about proposed changes (*not* the

Re: [Wikitech-l] Changes in colors of user interface

On Fri, 2016-12-09 at 23:56 +0200, Strainu wrote: > Totally agree. It's not a question of how small/large such a change > is, it's a question of collaboration and mutual respect. Which was > lacking, yet again :( While I'm not sure if "UI Standardization" is defined as a product in WMF, I'd hope

Re: [Wikitech-l] Changes in colors of user interface

2016-12-09 10:53 GMT+02:00 Amir Ladsgroup : > But these changes are too small to notice and even smaller to dislike. Amir, I believe you've been a wikimedian for too long to really believe that. No change is to small to be disliked by one or more people! >> It seems to me

Re: [Wikitech-l] Changes in colors of user interface

Hey, If a community dislikes a change they can instantly override it using mediawiki:common.css. In that case, no one would forces them to change it back. But these changes are too small to notice and even smaller to dislike. For example no one is trying to change blue to red, But we changed a

Re: [Wikitech-l] Changes in colors of user interface

Hi Amir, Were these changes discussed in advance with Wikimedia communities on mailing lists, village pumps, etc? I am thinking particularly of template designers and maintainers, who may have coordinated their work with the previous color scheme. It seems to me that Wikimedians should be given

[Wikitech-l] Changes in colors of user interface

Hey, With the deployment of 1.29.0-wmf.5 which just finished on all wikis, several changes were made in user interface colors. * Gray boxes (TOC, Wikitables, catlinks, thumbnails, elements in history etc.) has changed from #f9f9f9 as background to #f8f9fa and #aaa as border to #a2a9b1. [1] This