Chris Robinson [mailto:chris.k...@gmail.com]
On Tuesday 14 July 2009 7:26:39 am Adam Strzelecki wrote:
Look, anyway Obj-C is supposed to be used in Wine only for Mac
support, and not for anything else. Any developer that knows how
to program Mac knows Obj-C so there's nothing wrong with
I see the same issue here. Rather few Mac users are programming
themselves and not every Mac program is created using Obj-C.
Have a look at: http://osx.iusethis.com/
There're really plenty of Mac applications and plenty of Mac developers.
And all because of there're many great publications and
Except you don't *need* Obj-C to code on Mac. The regular C code for
X11
works, too. Granted, using Apple's X implementation isn't very
optimal, but it
does work. Sticking with C allows all those developers to code for
Mac as
well, with no Obj-C knowledge needed.
You can run X11 app on
Adam Strzelecki o...@java.pl wrote:
I can see real paradox here. Being against using Objective-C is
supposed to bring wider support to the code (right?), but implies
requirement of using either Carbon or Mac OpenGL + Core libraries,
which are far LESS popular, have far LESS active
On Wednesday 15 July 2009 2:40:08 am Adam Strzelecki wrote:
You can run X11 app on Windows as well, as there're several X11
servers. But none would appreciate that ;) And none would say you
don't have to use WinAPI to program Windows.
Actually, I know quite a few that would say you don't need
Francois,
I've seen some Obj-C code and it looks really weird. Of course I've
never 'learned' to program it so it's probably normal. But it's
certainly the case that only developpers who know Obj-C can work on
it.
Contrast this with the current situation where as soon as you know C
you
can
On Tuesday 14 July 2009 7:26:39 am Adam Strzelecki wrote:
Look, anyway Obj-C is supposed to be used in Wine only for Mac
support, and not for anything else. Any developer that knows how to
program Mac knows Obj-C so there's nothing wrong with constraint that
only developers that know Obj-C can
On Tue, 14 Jul 2009, Adam Strzelecki wrote:
Francois,
I've seen some Obj-C code and it looks really weird. Of course I've
never 'learned' to program it so it's probably normal. But it's
certainly the case that only developpers who know Obj-C can work on it.
Contrast this with the
On Thu, 9 Jul 2009, James Mckenzie wrote:
[...]
Or maybe job security. However, we have a requirement that any code
submitted to the Wine project be either c or C++. ObjC cannot be
included, however.
Actually C++ is strictly forbidden in Wine. The only language that is
allowed is C; and
Le 11 juil. 09 à 04:36, James McKenzie a écrit :
Emmanuel Maillard wrote:
Emmanuel:
What is the status of winequartz.drv? It looks like your last
patch
was for 1.1.2.
James McKenzie
Hi,
I didn't really work on winequartz.drv since this patch, start
a new
version at the beginning
On Mon, Jul 13, 2009 at 5:05 AM, Francois Gouget fgou...@free.fr wrote:
On Thu, 9 Jul 2009, James Mckenzie wrote:
[...]
Or maybe job security. However, we have a requirement that any code
submitted to the Wine project be either c or C++. ObjC cannot be
included, however.
Actually C++
King InuYasha [mailto:ngomp...@gmail.com] wrote:
Why is only C allowed in the first place? And isn't Obj-C supposed to be a
true superset of C?
One of the reasons is that the source base of Wine is already large enough
with
many parts that tend to bit rot since there is nobody that wants to take
On Mon, 13 Jul 2009, King InuYasha wrote:
[...]
Actually C++ is strictly forbidden in Wine. The only language that is
allowed is C; and then perl or sh for build scripts, etc.
[...]
Why is only C allowed in the first place?
The reason why C++ was forbidden is that its ABI was not very stable
On Sun, Jul 12, 2009 at 2:06 AM, James
McKenziejjmckenzi...@earthlink.net wrote:
Rolf Kalbermatter wrote:
On Thursday July 09, 2009 5:32 PM Chris Robinson wrote:
If OSX will always have Obj-C support, and the Obj-C code can be
restricted to OSX-only code, then the only sticking point, in my
Adam Strzelecki wrote:
Never encountered any. I doubt it is possible since Obj-C is
dynamically typed (binded) language, which means you can pass any kind
of msg to any kind of obj and it will compile/run. Either you will
receive an method not found exception or nil as return. It is very
On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 4:21 PM, James
McKenziejjmckenzi...@earthlink.net wrote:
Adam Strzelecki wrote:
I really don't understand why Obj-C is treated as evil, even it would
be part only of Mac platform of Wine and even it is supported by GDB
and GCC on any possible platform :/
Need to
Austin English wrote:
On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 4:21 PM, James
McKenziejjmckenzi...@earthlink.net wrote:
Adam Strzelecki wrote:
I really don't understand why Obj-C is treated as evil, even it would
be part only of Mac platform of Wine and even it is supported by GDB
and GCC on any
On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 4:45 PM, James
McKenziejjmckenzi...@earthlink.net wrote:
Austin English wrote:
On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 4:21 PM, James
McKenziejjmckenzi...@earthlink.net wrote:
Adam Strzelecki wrote:
I really don't understand why Obj-C is treated as evil, even it would
be part only
I'm wondering if there is a C++ to ObjC library interface that would
be
cleaner.
Never encountered any. I doubt it is possible since Obj-C is
dynamically typed (binded) language, which means you can pass any kind
of msg to any kind of obj and it will compile/run. Either you will
receive
Rolf Kalbermatter wrote:
On Thursday July 09, 2009 5:32 PM Chris Robinson wrote:
If OSX will always have Obj-C support, and the Obj-C code can be
restricted to OSX-only code, then the only sticking point, in my eyes,
would be how maintainable it is. After all, if only one or two people
On Thursday July 09, 2009 5:32 PM Chris Robinson wrote:
With the same argument you could say that writing COM objects has to
be done in C++. Yet Wine has lots and lots of COM code written all in
standard C.
It has to, because the class vtable layout and calling convention can
be different
Steven Edwards wrote:
On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 7:18 AM, Adam Strzeleckio...@java.pl wrote:
Just to explain things better, I found great sample of calling Obj-
C API
within pure C program:
http://www.smipple.net/snippet/moriyoshi/Using%20Objective-C%20ABI%20from%20within%20a%20pure%20C%20code
.
Emmanuel:
What is the status of winequartz.drv? It looks like your last
patch
was for 1.1.2.
James McKenzie
Hi,
I didn't really work on winequartz.drv since this patch, start a
new
version at the beginning of October,
but more or less waiting for DIB engine.
Emmanuel
Emmanuael:
Adam Strzelecki wrote:
Just to explain things better, I found great sample of calling Obj-C
API within pure C program:
http://www.smipple.net/snippet/moriyoshi/Using%20Objective-C%20ABI%20from%20within%20a%20pure%20C%20code.
This is basic application that just displays a single window, and
Emmanuel Maillard wrote:
Emmanuel:
What is the status of winequartz.drv? It looks like your last patch
was for 1.1.2.
James McKenzie
Hi,
I didn't really work on winequartz.drv since this patch, start a new
version at the beginning of October,
but more or less waiting for DIB engine.
Adam Strzelecki [mailto:o...@java.pl]
Cocoa is the proper Obj-C API for OSX UI graphics. OSX is
NextStep based objective oriented GUI OS. And Obj-C is a
basement of both NextStep and OSX. So if you want to write
OSX GUI application properly you have to use Obj-C, same as
C++ KDE and
On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 4:46 AM, Rolf
Kalbermatterr.kalbermat...@hccnet.nl wrote:
With the same argument you could say that writing COM objects has
to be done in C++. Yet Wine has lots and lots of COM code written
all in standard C.
Agreed, writing object oriented code in C is not exactly
On Thursday 09 July 2009 1:46:59 am Rolf Kalbermatter wrote:
Adam Strzelecki [mailto:o...@java.pl]
Cocoa is the proper Obj-C API for OSX UI graphics. OSX is
NextStep based objective oriented GUI OS. And Obj-C is a
basement of both NextStep and OSX. So if you want to write
OSX GUI
On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 9:02 AM, Adam Strzeleckio...@java.pl wrote:
Steven Edwards wrote:
While we are on the subject, could anyone point me to a reference that
would show how I can create a mib file using C?
You meant Nib? It is binary format which is some Mac equivalent of Windows
RES
Just to explain things better, I found great sample of calling Obj-C
API within pure C program:
http://www.smipple.net/snippet/moriyoshi/Using%20Objective-C%20ABI%20from%20within%20a%20pure%20C%20code
.
This is basic application that just displays a single window, and YES
it works!
BUT it
Rolf,
See my comments below.
With the same argument you could say that writing COM objects has
to be done in C++. Yet Wine has lots and lots of COM code written
all in standard C.
You're wrong. COM isn't a full C++ interface, it uses/exposes limited C
++ subset - just to be C and other
Steven Edwards wrote:
While we are on the subject, could anyone point me to a reference that
would show how I can create a mib file using C?
You meant Nib? It is binary format which is some Mac equivalent of
Windows RES format.
So this is not a source code.
Nib can be created from Xib
On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 7:18 AM, Adam Strzeleckio...@java.pl wrote:
Just to explain things better, I found great sample of calling Obj-C API
within pure C program:
http://www.smipple.net/snippet/moriyoshi/Using%20Objective-C%20ABI%20from%20within%20a%20pure%20C%20code.
This is basic
The link seems to be malformed. Can you resend it? I am really
interested in looking at this.
http://www.smipple.net/snippet/moriyoshi/Using%20Objective-C%20ABI%20from%20within%20a%20pure%20C%20code.
The trick, it seems, is to include the dot in the end. Interesting URL
scheme(and snippet)...
James,
Well actually you can easily access all Obj-C features trough the
following pure C API:
http://developer.apple.com/documentation/Cocoa/Reference/ObjCRuntimeRef/Reference/reference.html
Is this still true? I would like to convert what work we do have
into c
level code so that it will
On 06.07.2009, at 06:13, James McKenzie wrote:
Adam Strzelecki wrote:
I googled a bit more. There are at least two ways of achieving this
mentioned in the docs of libFoundation: by using XML-RPC call and by
wrapping classes in ANSI-C APIs. [4]
Well actually you can easily access all Obj-C
Emmanuel Maillard wrote:
Le 11 avr. 09 à 18:20, James McKenzie a écrit :
Emmanuel Maillard wrote:
Le 3 janv. 09 à 04:14, James McKenzie a écrit :
Emmanuel Maillard wrote:
Hi,
Le 4 juil. 08 à 12:37, Adam Strzelecki a écrit :
Hi Emmanuel, hello Wine developers,
Latest WineQuartz.drv
Adam Strzelecki wrote:
I googled a bit more. There are at least two ways of achieving this
mentioned in the docs of libFoundation: by using XML-RPC call and by
wrapping classes in ANSI-C APIs. [4]
Well actually you can easily access all Obj-C features trough the
following pure C
Adam Strzelecki wrote:
I googled a bit more. There are at least two ways of achieving this
mentioned in the docs of libFoundation: by using XML-RPC call and by
wrapping classes in ANSI-C APIs. [4]
Well actually you can easily access all Obj-C features trough the
following pure C
Emmanuel Maillard wrote:
Le 3 janv. 09 à 04:14, James McKenzie a écrit :
Emmanuel Maillard wrote:
Hi,
Le 4 juil. 08 à 12:37, Adam Strzelecki a écrit :
Hi Emmanuel, hello Wine developers,
Latest WineQuartz.drv patch is 0.9.58. Is there any change for
more recent release? I tried this
Le 3 janv. 09 à 04:14, James McKenzie a écrit :
Emmanuel Maillard wrote:
Hi,
Le 4 juil. 08 à 12:37, Adam Strzelecki a écrit :
Hi Emmanuel, hello Wine developers,
Latest WineQuartz.drv patch is 0.9.58. Is there any change for
more recent release? I tried this patch with 1.0-1 however
Emmanuel Maillard wrote:
Hi,
Le 4 juil. 08 à 12:37, Adam Strzelecki a écrit :
Hi Emmanuel, hello Wine developers,
Latest WineQuartz.drv patch is 0.9.58. Is there any change for more
recent release? I tried this patch with 1.0-1 however it has too
many conflicts.
It would be most
Am 02.10.2008 um 20:16 schrieb Saulius Krasuckas:
* On Thu, 10 Jul 2008, Adam Strzelecki wrote:
Is it really technically impossible to access the Quartz APIs or
write Mac applications using C?
Well it is possible, for example iTunes is non Objective-C Carbon
(API) app AFAIK. Problem is
I googled a bit more. There are at least two ways of achieving this
mentioned in the docs of libFoundation: by using XML-RPC call and by
wrapping classes in ANSI-C APIs. [4]
Well actually you can easily access all Obj-C features trough the
following pure C API:
Sorry for the lag,
* On Thu, 10 Jul 2008, Adam Strzelecki wrote:
Is it really technically impossible to access the Quartz APIs or write
Mac applications using C?
Well it is possible, for example iTunes is non Objective-C Carbon
(API) app AFAIK. Problem is that Carbon (pure C interface) is
On Mon, 7 Jul 2008, Adam Strzelecki wrote:
[...]
It was just said once that winequartz.drv won't go into official Wine,
and the top reason was Objective-C and this was just a bizarre
decision for me. Objective-C is almost as old as C++ and it was just
chosen for an object model of OSX
Is it really technically impossible to access the Quartz APIs or write
Mac applications using C?
Well it is possible, for example iTunes is non Objective-C Carbon
(API) app AFAIK. Problem is that Carbon (pure C interface) is
considered as deprecated by Apple and may disappear from future
On Mon, Jul 7, 2008 at 5:41 AM, Adam Strzelecki [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
OK, I'm sorry. I don't want to accuse anybody, I just made a false
equation between Alexandre and CodeWeavers taken from About Us page.
It was just said once that winequartz.drv won't go into official Wine,
and the top
We are very interested in Wine having a more native OS X interface.
However, our analysis is that the task is difficult and will require a
long time to stabilize and get right. I am excited by and
interested in
Emmanuel's work, but I am told not to be too excited, that it's not
a magic
On Friday 04 July 2008 23:43:11 James McKenzie wrote:
Comments on Adam's message
Adam Strzelecki wrote:
Hi Emmanuel, hello Wine developers,
Since Wine passed 1.0 (woohoo!) maybe someone from the direction can
revise Mac support? Even there're numerous Emmanuel efforts to provide
Mac
We probably curse his decisions as much or more than any Wine developer,
and whether
or not Objective C
*blush* Teach me to send email late at night on a foreign computer.
The point is that CodeWeavers has no control over whether or not Emmanuel's
code goes into Wine. That's entirely
Hi Emmanuel, hello Wine developers,
Latest WineQuartz.drv patch is 0.9.58. Is there any change for more
recent release? I tried this patch with 1.0-1 however it has too many
conflicts.
It would be most convenient if you had just update
http://repo.or.cz/w/wine/winequartzdrv.git
to match
2008/7/4 Adam Strzelecki [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Hi Emmanuel, hello Wine developers,
Latest WineQuartz.drv patch is 0.9.58. Is there any change for more
recent release? I tried this patch with 1.0-1 however it has too many
conflicts.
It would be most convenient if you had just update
Hi,
Le 4 juil. 08 à 12:37, Adam Strzelecki a écrit :
Hi Emmanuel, hello Wine developers,
Latest WineQuartz.drv patch is 0.9.58. Is there any change for more
recent release? I tried this patch with 1.0-1 however it has too
many conflicts.
It would be most convenient if you had just
Emmanuel Maillard wrote:
Hi,
Le 4 juil. 08 à 12:37, Adam Strzelecki a écrit :
Hi Emmanuel, hello Wine developers,
Latest WineQuartz.drv patch is 0.9.58. Is there any change for more
recent release? I tried this patch with 1.0-1 however it has too
many conflicts.
It would be most
Comments on Adam's message
Adam Strzelecki wrote:
Hi Emmanuel, hello Wine developers,
Since Wine passed 1.0 (woohoo!) maybe someone from the direction can
revise Mac support? Even there're numerous Emmanuel efforts to provide
Mac UI driver instead of X11, it will be always pushed aside,
On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 5:43 PM, James McKenzie
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Maybe this could be further queried as: What is CodeWeaver's offical
stance on supporting a Mac OS X native user interface when the code
becomes stable and supportable? and Would CodeWeavers consider
bringing Emmanuel on
Steven Edwards wrote:
On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 5:43 PM, James McKenzie
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Maybe this could be further queried as: What is CodeWeaver's offical
stance on supporting a Mac OS X native user interface when the code
becomes stable and supportable? and Would CodeWeavers
Hi,
Maybe this could be further queried as: What is CodeWeaver's offical
stance on supporting a Mac OS X native user interface when the code
becomes stable and supportable? and Would CodeWeavers consider
bringing Emmanuel on as a paid employee at that time to ensure that the
code is
Emmanuel Maillard wrote:
Hi,
I post a new quartzdrv patch for wine-0.9.56 on Darwine SF patches
page :
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detailaid=1908759group_id=69890atid=526089
It's not fully update to wine changes (SysCommandSizeMove didn't be
reviewed)
and don't
Hi,
I post a new quartzdrv patch for wine-0.9.56 on Darwine SF patches
page :
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detailaid=1908759group_id=69890atid=526089
It's not fully update to wine changes (SysCommandSizeMove didn't be
reviewed)
and don't contain all changes I initially
Hi,
On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 9:08 AM, Emmanuel Maillard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I post a new quartzdrv patch for wine-0.9.56 on Darwine SF patches
page :
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detailaid=1908759group_id=69890atid=526089
It's not fully update to wine changes
James McKenzie wrote:
As to the rest, AJ has stated, repeatedly, that he wants no Obj-C in
the
Wine tree. This prevents bringing in some Mac specific code, and
completely eliminates the winequartz.drv project. I'm not going to
argue with his reasoning, but this forces a Native version of
Hi,
I know that CodeWeavers supports quite nicely Mac builds of Wine, and
CrossOver for Mac, yet all of them are X11.
There was also once Darwine - an effort to provide Carbon Wine UI
driver and Mac optimizations LF.
Pretty many of those were merged back to Wine, but not winequartz.drv.
Do
Hi,
On Sun, Mar 2, 2008 at 12:50 PM, Stefan Dösinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Am Sonntag, 2. März 2008 18:14:45 schrieb Adam Strzelecki:
Do you guys think about reviving winequartz.drv?
I think everyone would greatly welcome efforts to continue it, and in fact
Steven Edwards is currently
Keep an eye on
http://wiki.winehq.org/MacOSX/QuartzDriver
Oh, that's awesome! How did I missed this.
And hopefully in the next few weeks we will have a newer patch in the
winequartzdrv tree for a more recent version of Wine. I am not sure
what design changes Emmanuel is wanting to make but
Keep an eye on
http://wiki.winehq.org/MacOSX/QuartzDriver
Oh, that's awesome! How did I missed this.
I know, I didn't looked there for over month, and it was recently
updated.
I keep my fingers crossed for QuartzDriver!
Good night,
--
Adam Strzelecki |: nanoant.com :|
Adam Strzelecki [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
There're very neat Wine Mac builds made on http://www.kronenberg.org/darwine/
Do you have contact with the maintainer? I believe you can work out
great Mac distro together especially once quartz is ready.
Neat is what sense? It's not clear what
Dmitry Timoshkov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
There're very neat Wine Mac builds made on http://www.kronenberg.org/darwine/
Do you have contact with the maintainer? I believe you can work out
great Mac distro together especially once quartz is ready.
Neat is what sense? It's not clear what
On Sun, Mar 2, 2008 at 10:00 PM, Dmitry Timoshkov
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Neat is what sense? It's not clear what additional functionality they
provide,
what's the status of quartz.drv in their sources, and why they don't send
patches
to WineHQ. Besides that sites claims that Darwine
Steven Edwards [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Sun, Mar 2, 2008 at 10:00 PM, Dmitry Timoshkov
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Neat is what sense? It's not clear what additional functionality they
provide,
what's the status of quartz.drv in their sources, and why they don't send
patches
to
Dmitry Timoshkov wrote:
Looks like you overreacted, http://www.kronenberg.org/darwine/ has nothing
to do with darwine except using its name.
Actually, I have Mike's code and it uses the Darwine build system and
applies two patches to it. One brings in FontForge so that Apple Native
fonts
On Sun, Mar 2, 2008 at 10:45 PM, Dmitry Timoshkov
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I have no idea why you're treating asking the questions as a hostility.
This is the developers list, not the list for user complaints. Sending
the patches is a usual activity here, not vague reasoning.
Sorry I
Any developer that wants to maintain source and/or binaries on the
Darwine project at SF.net is welcome to do so.
I have responded to every such request that I have seen, which isn't to
say of course that someone hasn't sent such a message that I haven't
seen. Folks should be aware that you
Steven Edwards [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I have been but I've put my work on it on hold pending a new round of
patches from Emmanuel. My point was that you asked for patches, there
is one for your pleasure. I welcome your thoughts and I am sure
Emmanuel does as well. I know Pierre seemed to
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