RAF,
I`m not sure that certain ethic groups do have a higher propensity to wage war.
It seems much more to do with historical factors and culture. Canadians
basically share the same ethnicity as Amercans, but a comparison of the
homicide rates for murder by shootings indicates a chasm between th
>put full screen to view these" zen "birds..merle
>
>
>ONLY NEW GUINEA HAS THESE BIRDS LIVING IN THE DEEP RAINFORESTS. IT HAS
>>>TAKEN YEARS TO TRACK THESE BIRDS AND STUDY THEIR EXISTENCE.
>>>http://www.cornell.edu/video/?VideoID=2398
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
I always heard death and taxes were two of the inevitably disappointing
parts of life. I am pretty sure democracy arose as a way to make the
inevitable taxes be chosen and spent in a somewhat more 'consent of the
governed' sort of way, not that democracy invented taxation.
Taxation without repres
Bill,
Not a good idea. The communist system in its ideal form perpetuates dependence
and failure because it rewards incompetence and sloth.
The ideal economic system is a free market system, but that being said there
are no truly free market systems since they are all perverted by the super ric
Merle and Bill,
You guys are great at adding your 's and ??'s but Bill
seems to always forget his :-)
Edgar
On Dec 12, 2012, at 2:10 AM, Merle Lester wrote:
>
>
>
> joe..where is his grin?? merle
>
> Merle,
>
> You mean you don't see Bill!'s sly ironic gri
but what problem? Both: nobody to be saved, and nothing to save them from.
Samsara and not-samsara. Only "Is-ness", without the "Is", or the "ness", and
without the "without". No enlightenment, nobody to be enlightened. SPLABBERT!
Current Book Discuss
On 12/12/2012 12:49 AM, Bill! wrote:
You're beginning to sound like a sour grapes Tea Bagger.
Bill, your 'realization' would be revealed as pretense by this alone,
but we also have your endorsement of communism to remove all doubt. You
have not only revealed your/self/, but the fox who approv
On 12/12/2012 8:08 AM, Edgar Owen wrote:
Democracy is a huge failure, because it elects not the best qualified
to solve real problems, but the best liars, bull shitters, and those
most willing to prostitute themselves to their corporate and banker
masters.
This is true, of course, but I sug
Now is the time for the Churchill quote about democracy being the worst
form of government except for all the alternatives.
What does it mean to say "the best economic system is the free market
system which cannot exist"?
if it cannot exist, how is it even good much less best?
Also, I have known
On 12/12/2012 7:15 AM, Chris Austin-Lane wrote:
taxes, like death, are just part of life
Taxes are so dangerous because they enhance and sustain government
power, which is pernicious due to the imperfections of human nature, and
because they destroy economic productivity, which impoverishes s
On 12/12/2012 3:21 AM, mike brown wrote:
I`m not sure that certain ethic groups do have a higher propensity to
wage war.
It sounds as if you are unfamiliar with both the anthropology and
genetic data. For the anthropology I suggest Napoleon Chagnon; for a
glimpse at the tip of a genetic icebe
On 12/12/2012 10:48 AM, Chris Austin-Lane wrote:
Now is the time for the Churchill quote about democracy being the
worst form of government except for all the alternatives.
Like hard cases making bad law, pithy comments can make for poor
reasoning. IS democracy /really/ better than all the al
Given that there has not, as far as I know, been a stable and admirable
society without taxes I doubt you can be sure about the ill effects of
taxation.
Governments are also a pretty universal way of organizing societies. As far
as I can see the imperfections of human nature exist in and out of
go
I rather doubt that pithy line of reasoning is true - certainly there is
less communism and more democracy now than when I was little.
I personally would not be shocked if technology enables a sort of
anarcho-syndicalism in the future, but I bet there would be some bill of
rights and division of p
On 12/12/2012 11:48 AM, Chris Austin-Lane wrote:
Is this the system you think would be better than our tax based system?
You seem to be under the misapprehension that because I foresee
something I must 'want' all aspects of it.
I live in California
So, if you can't already recognize a dis
Merle,
You may be seeing all the way to his Original Face; but, in this case I suggest
looking at the one worn gracefully on the top of THAT one.
;-)
--Joe
> Merle Lester wrote:
>
>
> joe..where is his grin?? merle
>
> Merle,
>
> You mean you don't see Bill!'s sly ironic grin?
>
On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 9:21 AM, R A Fonda wrote:
>
>
> On 12/12/2012 11:48 AM, Chris Austin-Lane wrote:
>
> Is this the system you think would be better than our tax based system?
>
>
> You seem to be under the misapprehension that because I foresee something
> I must 'want' all aspects of it.
>
Merle,
Arizona is a "Right to Work" State.
Here, we call it a "Right-to-Work-for-LESS" State.
--Joe
PS When I was working, I'd get right to work every day (couldn't wait).
PPS (Nickname of one of my big-eating cats is "Chomp-sky").
> Merle Lester wrote:
> >
> >CHOMSKY: 'RIGHT TO WORK' MORE
Merle,
No, no way! Please; your correspondence with the Roshi is private.
That's the way it is in our Way. Only tell me general things later, maybe, if
you wish, about art and zen and how they may link-up. Your discussions are
like what transpires in Dokusan, "Private Teaching in the Room":
Mike,
> ...indicates a chasm between the two cultures.
The chasm is the 49th Parallel. Funny, because, from the air, it does not look
all that imposing! ;-)
--Joe
> mike brown wrote:
>
> RAF,
> I`m not sure that certain ethic groups do have a higher propensity to wage
> war. It seems much
Tho the Three Pillars of Zen has a great section of dokusan transcripts.
On Dec 12, 2012 9:41 AM, "Joe" wrote:
> Merle,
>
> No, no way! Please; your correspondence with the Roshi is private.
>
> That's the way it is in our Way. Only tell me general things later,
> maybe, if you wish, about art
Chris,
Now you 'make' me want to see again the movie "Meet Joe Black", a reworking of
the earlier story "Death Takes a Holiday". Philosophical and fun. And some
really good casting and acting. Death and taxes figure literally, and LARGE,
in the movie!
The Buddha might have said that the two
Panda.,
> SPLABBERT!
That's easy for YOU to say!
Aside from that, ...I agree. ;-)
--Joe
PS But you speak from the point of view of Awakening. In our Way, one comes
back all the same, anyhow, and uses your ten-thousand arms and all those eyes,
and does Yeoman's work (ha, as if you could
On 12/12/2012 12:33 PM, Chris Austin-Lane wrote:
Is this the system you think would be better than our tax based
system?
You seem to be under the misapprehension that because I foresee
something I must 'want' all aspects of it.
You wrote of some better system than democracy:
RAF,
Overruled!
--Joe
> R A Fonda wrote:
>
> On 12/12/2012 12:49 AM, Bill! wrote:
> > You're beginning to sound like a sour grapes Tea Bagger.
>
> Bill, your 'realization' would be revealed as pretense by this alone,
> but we also have your endorsement of communism to remove all doubt. You
>
Chris,
> What does it mean to say "the best economic system is the free market system
> which cannot exist"?
It *is* puzzling.
But I think it contains the SAME germ of truth as exists also in the famous
statement about "Ideal Communism", which I think Marx and other theorists wrote
about:
"I
RAF,
> I do not oppose taxes for personal reasons ... but because they empower evil
> *and reduce the people to poverty*.
I see the evil of state and national lotteries for the reason in your final
clause (where I've added my emphasis of '*').
--Joe
> R A Fonda wrote:
>
> On 12/12/2012 7:15
Howdy, RAF,
SCIENCE goes through these doldrum periods, too, when all seems wrapped-up, and
the old-timers sit back and smoke thick sickening cigars, which youngsters
shun.
Then, upstarts come along and generate a Revolution. Their work is rejected at
first, of course, but, then, after the
On 12/12/2012 1:24 PM, Joe wrote:
I see the evil of state and national lotteries for the reason in your
final clause
Very true, one might regard them as a tax on the desperate and those
ignorant of the implication of statistics. They are particularly
pernicious in that they make such a /few,
On 12/12/2012 1:09 PM, Joe wrote:
RAF,
Overruled!
Get outta that 'host seat'!
To paraphrase the dialog from Butch and Sundance: there /ARE NO/ rules
in a zen-fight ... let alone /over/rules.
RAF
Thanks,
--Chris
ch...@austin-lane.net
+1-301-270-6524
On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 10:17 AM, R A Fonda wrote:
>
>
> On 12/12/2012 12:33 PM, Chris Austin-Lane wrote:
>
> Is this the system you think would be better than our tax based system?
>>
>>
>> You seem to be under the misapprehension that
Chris, Merle,
That's right!, it is great!
Kapleau Roshi obtained very special permission from the Roshi and from the
students to take and to publish those records, for all our benefit, in his book
THE THREE PILLARS OF ZEN. Kapleau's mission was to give a flavor of formal Zen
practice before i
RAF,
And that's why I say it, and open myself to your understanding.
Are you getting the hang of this, yet?
TNX,
--Joe
> R A Fonda wrote:
>
> On 12/12/2012 1:09 PM, Joe wrote:
> > RAF,
> >
> > Overruled!
>
> Get outta that 'host seat'!
>
> To paraphrase the dialog from Butch and Sundance: t
RAF,
Ha!, and another thing... . ;-)
I never wanted to be Perry Mason, nor Mr. Burger. I wanted to be the quiet guy
in the black robe.
"Witch" I am!
--Joe
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, R A Fonda wrote:
>
> On 12/12/2012 1:09 PM, Joe wrote:
> > RAF,
> >
> > Overruled!
>
> Get outta tha
Group,
The news came here about 14 hours ago that Pandit Ravi Shankar passed away at
age 92.
Sorry to bring this news; I think many here will recognize his music.
His tabla player Alla Rakha preceded him in death about 13 years ago.
--Joe / Arizona
Curr
On 12/12/2012 2:05 PM, Chris Austin-Lane wrote:
So the US of 1792 or changed relatively continuously, according to the
initial rules, into the current US, so it can't be any better as a
system than what we have now, right?
Wrong; the degenerate condition we have now is worse than the republic
RAF,
You 'read' like the isolated zen slunks of old, on their mountain.
(Try to) visit them at your peril, Seekers!
;->
--Joe
PS What will you do when spring comes and the spring warms?
> R A Fonda wrote:
>
> My spring is too */cold
>
> /*For most to savor, however clear*/
> /*
> Ahhh, j
RAF,
I don't think the problem is taxes per se. It is necessary to have some amount
of government and it must be therefore funded by taxes.
The real problem is the enormous amount of government waste and corruption
which results in enormously bloated and unnecessary taxes.
Edgar
On Dec 12,
Chris,
Gosh, someone actually agrees with something I said here!
You are an 'enlightened being' after all!
:-)
Best,
Edgar
On Dec 12, 2012, at 12:33 PM, Chris Austin-Lane wrote:
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 9:21 AM, R A Fonda wrote:
>
>
> On 12/12/2012 11:48 AM, Chris Austin-Lane
Edgar,
I think you are right in both sentences.
But, I now understand that some folks believe that taxation in itself is an
evil, a "taking" -- even a "stealing", I have read -- even though some such
folks may have heard of the "social contract", and the coming together of
people to govern the
yes.".i heard the news today...oh boy"...john lennon... 92 is superb...i
have his records in my collection from the 1960's...pity lennon did not make it
to 92...merle
Group,
The news came here about 14 hours ago that Pandit Ravi Shankar passed away at
age 92.
Sorry to bring this news;
for christ sake you need taxes to make roads bridges, hospitals..etc... in all
aspects of human activity there will be "evil" doings..get over it...move on
and accept...the taxes are here to stay whether you like it or not..let us pray
they are spent wisely to help society to become a better
google churchill...he was no saint as he is sometimes pictured...
communism in the ideal state cannot be achieved until all human beings are
enlightened...
there is too much greed for power and materialism...
more for me syndrome...
many have far to much and many have nothing at all...
my fa
On Dec 12, 2012 11:52 AM, "R A Fonda" wrote:
>
>
>
> On 12/12/2012 2:05 PM, Chris Austin-Lane wrote:
>>
>> So the US of 1792 or changed relatively continuously, according to the
initial rules, into the current US, so it can't be any better as a system
than what we have now, right?
>
>
> Wrong; the
crap..RAF so right wing tea party garbage..full of hate for those that
might be getting a hand out..
.no man worth his weight in salt wants to go cap in hand to others...
greed is the order of the day and greed is found in every human heart including
those in zen centres greedy for enlig
Merle,
Take the Sainted Mother Teresa's approach. She was not a talker.
--Joe
> Merle Lester wrote:
>
> merle...(getting mighty steamed up )
Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are
reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>See your house in a Snow Globe...
>
>CLICK ON THE SITE BELOW,
>
>PUT IN YOUR ADDRESS and ZIP CODE
>
>Then click the "Shake" button
>
> http://www.draftfcb.com/holiday2011/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
http://readersupportednews.org/opinion2/277-75/14986-why-billionaires-will-keep-pouring-money-into-politics
right joe..and how do i do that through cyber space?...merle
Merle,
Take the Sainted Mother Teresa's approach. She was not a talker.
--Joe
> Merle Lester wrote:
>
> merle...(getting mighty steamed up )
music time...season to be jollymerle
>
>
>Subject: Sissel - Joy To The World / Deck The Halls - YouTube
>
>
>
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSaXEyJMYkM&feature=related
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
On 12/12/2012 5:31 PM, Chris Austin-Lane wrote:
The system hasn't been overturned - you can't evaluate the
Constitution as a system without looking at what happened, how it
worked out.
I am saying it started out a representative republic; it is now
socialism becoming a communist tyranny, s
Merle,
Now, now. Don't be slippery. Who mentioned cyberspace? That's not how the
Saints do it!
As one of my (academic) teachers often told me: "Take responsibility!"
That's also the Bodhisattva work.
Of course I mean in your community, even in your home. And elsewhere. In
every interacti
RAF,
Communism will never catch on in USA (and never has done).
The reason is Meetings.
Every time a sewer-system upgrade is contemplated, there must be a Meeting, and
we must attend. Whenever a road needs paving, there must be a meeting. If a
school needs more teachers, there must be a meet
On Dec 12, 2012 3:44 PM, "R A Fonda" wrote:
>
>
> It is unlikely that I will answer any further comments you make on the
subjects covered in this post.
That is probably for the best.
Chris, RAF,
Well, you pays your money and you takes your chances. ;-)
--Joe
> Chris Austin-Lane wrote:
>
> On Dec 12, 2012 3:44 PM, "R A Fonda" wrote:
> >
> >
> > It is unlikely that I will answer any further comments you make on the
> subjects covered in this post.
>
> That is probably for
On 12/12/2012 8:00 PM, Joe wrote:
Communism will never catch on in USA
I hope you are right, not that I am a fan of the status quo or think
/it/ can prevent collapse of the over-populated technostate. I just see
a communist tyranny as another burden of misery that people don't need
to impose
RAF,
Roger, roger, as we say in radio.
I'm on an 80-meter net at present, in a group of some 25 other stations.
I really think Communism has no future -- nor past -- on these salty shores!
Too work-intensive, meaning the Meetings! ;-)
Of COURSE Communism is a tyranny. Only way it can get a
are you telling me to shut up?? joe... merle
Merle,
Take the Sainted Mother Teresa's approach. She was not a talker.
--Joe
> Merle Lester wrote:
>
> merle...(getting mighty steamed up )
Merle,
Negative. I don't hear anything, here.
"With one Bird singing...
the Mountain is yet more still."
--Joe
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Merle Lester wrote:
>
> are you telling me to shut up?? joe... merle
>
>
> Merle,
>
> Take the Sainted Mother Teresa's approach
Edgar,
much of what you say about free market systems I used to agree with.
But, when you say "public support for those truly in need, but only in
a manner which does NOT perpetuate that need," how do you see this
system? Public support is not only for those who are laid off and are
capable of wo
Thank you for posting.
hong yeong soo
PS. did you know that Norah Jones is his daughter?
On 12/12/12, Joe wrote:
> Group,
>
> The news came here about 14 hours ago that Pandit Ravi Shankar passed away
> at age 92.
>
> Sorry to bring this news; I think many here will recognize his music.
>
> His
Yonyonson,
Yes. Sad. Great report at:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxFwskFancI
Condolences,
--Joe
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, yonyonson@... wrote:
>
> Thank you for posting.
>
> hong yeong soo
>
> PS. did you know that Norah Jones is his daughter?
--
Group,
And fine appreciation with Ravi Shankar of Pandit Alla Rakha, 13 years gone, at:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxc2K0NMpzg&list=LPxteDn5Z6qmQ&index=1
--Joe
> "Joe" wrote:
>
> Yonyonson,
>
> Yes. Sad. Great report at:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxFwskFancI
>
> Condolences,
you betcha.
.i agree hong yeong soo.
.that is why our australia federal government here is introducing a national
disability insurance scheme..
.down and out in usa...no family
go out in the gutter and "die"..
just as individuals must be compassionate and enlightened so too society and
henc
joe..mother teresa was not all that she was cracked up to be..she did good
works for sure but there were cracks in her foundations..merle
Merle,
Negative. I don't hear anything, here.
"With one Bird singing...
the Mountain is yet more still."
--Joe
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Me
fear fear fear..joe that is why communism will never catch on in usa...
FEAR...merle
RAF,
Communism will never catch on in USA (and never has done).
The reason is Meetings.
Every time a sewer-system upgrade is contemplated, there must be a Meeting, and
we must attend. Whenever a road
joe the strong one...please there is cyber space...and that too needs the
gentle wings of an angel to lift it to enlightenment...you take my
point?...merle
Merle,
Now, now. Don't be slippery. Who mentioned cyberspace? That's not how the
Saints do it!
As one of my (academic) teachers
do i see and hear the word: selection...
what nazi germany lives again?...
you will die because you are not worthy of being a human being..
tut tut tut..
who will be the judge and who will be the jury as to who lives and who does
not...
who will vote and who will not
.tut tut...
merle
Merle,
Her foundations must have been strong, despite perceived "cracks".
I'd've been dead two hundred years before SHE passed.
You want to outdo her? Don't! Just MATCH her, please.
--Joe
> Merle Lester wrote:
>
> joe..mother teresa was not all that she was cracked up to be..she did good
Merle,
Meetings, meetings, meetings. Everybody's too busy for that rot.
Don't believe the Media, who say Americans have the patience of Job.
You're not here. I submit, you dunno! ;-)
Meetings are the bane of Communism; and I am a happy American. Impatient, too.
I'll have none of it.
Th
Merle,
Cyberspace is not the needy camper. Not by a long shot.
Look elsewhere. It's not difficult. Even for a far-sighted Astronomer, I can
see (much) closer to home. What-say you?
--Joe
> Merle Lester wrote:
>
> joe the strong one...please there is cyber space...and that too needs the
>
joe..
i have no intentions of making it a competition!
.explain your good self... "dead 200 years"
all this sipping you do will get ya one day..
daddy cool...
merle
Merle,
Her foundations must have been strong, despite perceived "cracks".
I'd've been dead two hundred years b
right joe..daddy cool..are you saying your not into caring and sharing?... you
the enlightened one in the desert watching the night sky?..merle
Merle,
Meetings, meetings, meetings. Everybody's too busy for that rot.
Don't believe the Media, who say Americans have the patience of Job.
daddy cool..joe...huh? you telling me cyber space is
enlightened?..merle
Merle,
Cyberspace is not the needy camper. Not by a long shot.
Look elsewhere. It's not difficult. Even for a far-sighted Astronomer, I can
see (much) closer to home. What-say you?
--Joe
> Merle Les
Merle,
Not even sipping Iced-Tea: it's Winter, here!
The Saint outworked all mere humans; I'd have been dead long before she saved
her 25,000th person. She had stamina that comes from spiritual practice and
devotion to God (through humans). I am made of mere tinsel compared to her
stern stuf
Merle,
I know nuttin' of Cyberspace. I know people. You?
Are you nipping the fine Aussie Shiraz, again?
--Joe
> Merle Lester wrote:
>
> daddy cool..joe...huh? you telling me cyber space is
> enlightened?..merle
Current Book Discussion: a
jesus joe.
.not homework..give me a break daddy cool...
i meant snipping..not sipping...you love snipping posts they loose their
meaning!
.winter..meaning what?...
doth the desert have winter in your parts?...no snow but of course...
jesus joe... i pay my respects to mother teresa..
.and i
Merle,
We care for our system; not foreign ones. It's natural. Communism is a German
invention. Antique, at that. We are Progressives.
--Joe
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Merle Lester wrote:
>
> right joe..daddy cool..are you saying your not into caring and sharing?...
> you the enli
Merle,
Sipping, snipping, no wonder I get you wrong when you mis-spell what you mean.
But I think I got you right anyway. ;-)
Nite-tite. 192 and a half pounds. Or my name is not Jack Dempsey.
--J. D.
PS Winter is "short days" here; long nights. Like in any locale but the
Equator. We ge
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