Re: [Zen] Re: Old Zen, New Zen

2012-10-08 Thread Kristopher Grey
Same way your question arises. KG On 10/7/2012 5:25 PM, yonyon...@gmail.com wrote: how? yeongsoo On 10/6/12, Kristopher Grey k...@kgrey.com mailto:kris%40kgrey.com wrote: It appears so. KG On 10/6/2012 2:46 AM, yonyon...@gmail.com mailto:yonyonson%40gmail.com wrote: aren't

Re: [Zen] Re: Old Zen, New Zen

2012-10-07 Thread yonyonson
On 10/6/12, Joe desert_woodwor...@yahoo.com wrote: Yes. But who is it who is aware of that identity? Maybe nobody. dunno. faith comes to mind... That one is worth finding. That's why we practice. But not everyone -- and not everyone here -- practices. It's worthwhile to do so, in

Re: [Zen] Re: Old Zen, New Zen

2012-10-07 Thread yonyonson
how? yeongsoo On 10/6/12, Kristopher Grey k...@kgrey.com wrote: It appears so. KG On 10/6/2012 2:46 AM, yonyon...@gmail.com wrote: aren't appearances too, just THIS!? and hindrances for that matter? On 10/6/12, Kristopher Grey k...@kgrey.com mailto:kris%40kgrey.com wrote:

[Zen] Re: Old Zen, New Zen

2012-10-07 Thread desert_woodworker
Yonyonson, Seriously, all Tortoise-Shell Coat cats are female. And some people will not keep male cats because of the spray-marking of territory that even neutered Toms will do, if they ever learned that behavior. The numerical part of the cat's name came from our telephone Area Code of the

[Zen] Re: Old Zen, New Zen

2012-10-06 Thread billsmart
Merle, I didn't watch the video. I just guessed from the description. That sentence was just chum in the waters. ...Bill! --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Merle Lester merlewiitpom@... wrote: so you did watch the german's jumping in the water bed...you told me NOT to send such

Re: [Zen] Re: Old Zen, New Zen

2012-10-06 Thread Kristopher Grey
Self'/no-self', 'mind'/'no-mind' - such beliefs (or opinions if you prefer to think personal attachments differ from personal expressions of them) are hindrances, but being 'empty' can only appear to hinder. So long as such stories are appealing, you will pursue them. Doing so, one imagines

Re: [Zen] Re: Old Zen, New Zen

2012-10-06 Thread yonyonson
aren't appearances too, just THIS!? and hindrances for that matter? On 10/6/12, Kristopher Grey k...@kgrey.com wrote: Self'/no-self', 'mind'/'no-mind' - such beliefs (or opinions if you prefer to think personal attachments differ from personal expressions of them) are hindrances, but being

[Zen] Re: Old Zen, New Zen

2012-10-06 Thread billsmart
KG, The only hindrance is self. When self melts away so does self/no-self, mind/no-mind, beliefs, opinions, appearances, hindrances/encouragements, etc... Self follows a path. Without self there is no path to follow, nowhere to go. Just THIS! ...Bill! --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com,

[Zen] Re: Old Zen, New Zen

2012-10-06 Thread Bill!
yonyonson604, I'm assuming you've addressed this post to Kris so I'll let him respond. If you've addressed it to me let me know. ...and say hello to yonyonson602 and 603 for me too while you're at it. --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, yonyonson@... wrote: aren't appearances too, just THIS!?

Re: [Zen] Re: Old Zen, New Zen

2012-10-06 Thread yonyonson
whenever I post, let any with a response, respond... k, just watch out for yonyonson607 ;-) he may be a prime suspect *whaa whaaa whaa* On 10/6/12, Bill! billsm...@hhs1963.org wrote: yonyonson604, I'm assuming you've addressed this post to Kris so I'll let him respond. If you've

Re: [Zen] Re: Old Zen, New Zen

2012-10-06 Thread Merle Lester
   why did you not watch it bill!..can we drop the !... it's hard work sorry i thought you did!  merle   Merle, I didn't watch the video. I just guessed from the description. That sentence was just chum in the waters. ...Bill! --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Merle Lester merlewiitpom@...

[Zen] Re: Old Zen, New Zen

2012-10-06 Thread billsmart
Merle, I already told you why I didn't watch the video. The description didn't interest me. ...Bill! --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Merle Lester merlewiitpom@... wrote:    why did you not watch it bill!..can we drop the !... it's hard work sorry i thought you did!  merle  

Re: [Zen] Re: Old Zen, New Zen

2012-10-06 Thread Merle Lester
 right...so you judge a book by it's cover too?,,merle   Merle, I already told you why I didn't watch the video. The description didn't interest me. ...Bill! --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Merle Lester merlewiitpom@... wrote:    why did you not watch it bill!..can we drop the

[Zen] Re: Old Zen, New Zen

2012-10-06 Thread Bill!
Merle, Absolutely! Or in this case the blurb on the inside and back of its jacket...Bill! --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Merle Lester merlewiitpom@... wrote:  right...so you judge a book by it's cover too?,,merle   Merle, I already told you why I didn't watch the video.

Re: [Zen] Re: Old Zen, New Zen

2012-10-06 Thread Kristopher Grey
It appears so. KG On 10/6/2012 2:46 AM, yonyon...@gmail.com wrote: aren't appearances too, just THIS!? and hindrances for that matter? On 10/6/12, Kristopher Grey k...@kgrey.com mailto:kris%40kgrey.com wrote: Self'/no-self', 'mind'/'no-mind' - such beliefs (or opinions if you prefer to

[Zen] Re: Old Zen, New Zen

2012-10-06 Thread Joe
Yes. But who is it who is aware of that identity? Maybe nobody. That one is worth finding. That's why we practice. But not everyone -- and not everyone here -- practices. It's worthwhile to do so, in order to appreciate the identities, and the differences. Else, it's all a mish-mash, and

[Zen] Re: Old Zen, New Zen

2012-10-06 Thread Joe
Yonyonson, That's higher than I can count, anyway. A sweetheart of mine had a cat named Pretty602, a female tortie. Actually, all torties are female, it's a sex-linked fur expression. --Joe601/half-a-dozen-of-another yonyonson@... wrote: k, just watch out for yonyonson607 ;-) he may be

[Zen] Re: Old Zen, New Zen

2012-10-05 Thread desert_woodworker
Bill, What you (one) receive(s) by way of training depends on who you study with. I have felt for long that the western successors of Japanese teachers were beginning to really water-down the practice, and its integrity. (It will bounce back after a few generations, I suspect. The world is

[Zen] Re: Old Zen, New Zen

2012-10-05 Thread billsmart
Joe, Thanks for your response. I have been a formal student of two Japanese Zen Buddhist teachers and a more casual student of a Korean teacher. I have never talked or had any contact with Chinese teachers (I assume you're referring to 'Chan Buddhism') before JMJM joined the forum. I have

Re: [Zen] Re: Old Zen, New Zen

2012-10-05 Thread Kristopher Grey
On 10/6/2012 1:09 AM, billsmart wrote: My practice is to continue to more completely bring no-mind (Buddha Nature) up off the cushion and more fully integrate it into my daily life. Seeing 'no-mind' as being more or less 'Buddha Nature than mind is the only hindrance to realizing life as the

[Zen] Re: Old Zen, New Zen

2012-10-05 Thread Bill!
The only hindrance to fully realizing Buddha Nature (IMO) is clinging to self...Bill! --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Kristopher Grey kris@... wrote: On 10/6/2012 1:09 AM, billsmart wrote: My practice is to continue to more completely bring no-mind (Buddha Nature) up off the cushion and

Re: [Zen] Re: Old Zen, New Zen

2012-10-05 Thread Merle Lester
so you did watch the german's jumping in the water bed...you told me NOT to send such stuff!...naughty you opening it up and peeking inside..merle I also like to jump on waterbeds from time to time. ...Bill!