John W. Redelfs wrote:
Does anyone know how I can find an online copy of Scalia's dissenting
opinion in Lawrence v. Texas? I've Googled, and all I can find are news
stories, not the actual dissenting opinion. --JWR
Nevermind. I found it. Sorry to bother y
r, and I'm just muddled in my
understanding. But from where I sit, a lot of your discourse seems to talk
around the topic without ever really stating your position. Maybe I'm just
not smart enough to understand your otherwise lucent prose.
John W. Redelfs [EMAIL
Does anyone know how I can find an online copy of Scalia's dissenting
opinion in Lawrence v. Texas? I've Googled, and all I can find are news
stories, not the actual dissenting opinion. --JWR
//
/// ZION LIST CHARTER:
RB Scott wrote:
>Tell us more about your "methods for opposing" same-sex
>marriage. --JWR<
I have done this before. I support the proposition that the state
should get out of sanctioning marriages altogether and should,
therefore ( as I noted in an earlier post today) draft
legislation that carefu
RB Scott wrote:
It would *seem* to you, perhaps. It doesn't *seem* so to me. I DO
NOT support same sex marriage, but my methods for opposing it do
not include (at this point) supporting a constitutional amendment
defining **marriage.**
Tell us more about your "methods for opposing" same-sex marriag
RB Scott wrote:
I agree, John. Notice that yesterday the proponents of the
amendment expanded language of the proposed amendment to give
states the right to adopt same sex union legislation and even
Orrin Hatch was dithering.
Where can I read about this? --JWR
/
RB Scott wrote:
I do not support extramarital sex of
any kind.
What about sex within marriage if marriage is redefined to permit a man to
marry his German Shepherd or his boy friend? --JWR
//
/// ZION LIST CHARTER: Plea
RB Scott wrote:
I'm growing weary of the tiresome assumption that "activist
judge" is a negative description. By definition any appellate
judge worth his gavel is an "activist judge" because he is often
asked to interpret constitutional law. I daresay that one man's
"activist judge" is another's "
Steven Montgomery wrote:
If, as BYU Professor Richard Wilkins states, we need a Marriage Amendment
because activist judges have misinterpreted the Constitution (See the URL
immediately below), then why not simply limit their jurisdiction as
outlined in Article III, Section 2?
http://www.ldsmag.
Hi, Jack Redelfs here, again.
Gerald Smith wrote:
Gary: Any group, whether a nation, community, business, or family has
culture. And the way cultures interact, adapt, fight, etc, are all the
same, regardless of the unit/organization. The only difference is the
time span required for change to oc
RB Scott wrote:
>> Seriously, I don't
>>recall Christ preaching "death" for any offense...well, murder
>>perhaps (but I don't recall it).
Notwithstanding fairly twisted and bizarre interpretations, what
Christ taught was forgiveness, not death.
Forgiveness for the repentant only. That is what he
Gerald Smith wrote:
It might take Iraq 40-50 years to switch over to a strong democracy. So
what? It means our grandchildren's children will live in a world with
one more free nation that isn't run by radical kooks.
Hope springs eternal in the human breast,
Man never is but always to be blest.
Hi Gary. My name's Jack, I'm the only son of the listowner. Since I advised
him in writing the post you are responding to (I'm his history advisor), I was
interested in your reply and decided to respond.
Gerald Smith wrote:
That's somewhat of a fallacious generalization, John. Yes, it is
difficult
RB Scott wrote:
I think you've got it right. The old laws are off the books. If
they become laws again, they ought to be enforced. What do I
think the penalty ought to be for Sabbath breaking? Dunno. Let
me consult with my Jewish and SDA friends. Seriously, I don't
recall Christ preaching "deat
How many of you play a musical instrument? How well do you play? I'm
curious about the musical makeup of the Zion list.
John W. Redelfs sings well, plays the piano fairly, and the violin poorly.
//
/// ZION
amental, God-given human rights. Those families are almost all English
speaking.
John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED]
===
"I know of nothing in the history of the Church or in the
history of the world to compare with our present
ci
What will the future bring? These are my five favorite fantasies:
1. Affordable, effective and safe treatment for clinical depression.
2. Affordable, effective and safe treatment for obesity.
3. Hearing aid-like personal computers with voice recognition and "always
on" wireless access to th
Gays and lesbians should stay in the closet.
A. Strongly agree
B. Agree
C. Undecided
D. Disagree
E. Strongly Disagree
//
/// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at ///
/// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html ///
//
Mankind will establish permanent space colonies by the end of the century.
A. Certainly
B. Likely
C. Maybe
D. Unlikely
E. Certainly not
//
/// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at ///
/// http://www.zionsbest.com/charte
Same-sex marriage will become legal in all or most of the United States
over the next five years.
A. Certainly
B. Likely
C. Maybe
D. Unlikely
E. Certainly not
//
/// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at ///
/// http://
The USA and her allies will successfully establish democratic rule in Iraq.
A. Certainly
B. Probably
C. Maybe
D. Unlikely
E. Certainly not
//
/// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at ///
/// http://www.zionsbest.com/cha
t;national"
ie. oil interests.
John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED]
===
"I know of nothing in the history of the Church or in the
history of the world to compare with our present
circumstances. Nothing happened in Sodom and
Gomorr
quot; It will be many that are close to you, your grandchildren and
great grandchildren. For me that is a painful thought and a good reason
for family prayer, family scripture study, and Family Home Evening. And
even then our own families will be in terrible danger.
John W. Redelf
RB Scott wrote:
You didn't describe your purpose. While your footnotes may
support what you claim -- as I recall you provide a bibliography,
not traditional footnotes -- it requires the reader to assume
you've interpreted the source material correctly and that the
source material supports what you
RB Scott wrote:
Huh? It defines marriage as a institution between one man and one
woman.
The wording hasn't even been agreed upon yet. You are getting ahead of
yourself. --JWR
//
/// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it a
ies it weakens the traditional family by
reinforcing the idea that the traditional family is not the "ideal" family.
Actually, I think I'm coming more and more to agree with you that the
government should just refrain from defining the family altogether. It is
o
RB Scott wrote:
Does society derive benefits from encouraging people to form more stable
and more economically robust family units? The government says "yes." So
does the "church."
In the Proclamation on the Family the Church defines the family as a man
and woman. I don't believe the Church ha
RB Scott wrote:
Then there are economic issues to be considered. For instance:
suppose two good friends, both widowed mothers of minor children
decided their chances for remarriage were nil. Yet, in the
interest of keeping their families out the poorhouse, to
eliminate the need to leave children
Gerald Smith wrote:
I'm all for it, IF we can get Congress to do it, and then not renege on
it 10 years down the road under a liberal president. But how does this
affect state courts who are legislating the same things from the bench?
States would still be forced to draft amendments to their Consti
together for what they want. The opponents of same-sex marriage, on the
other hand, seem to be in a state a great confusion pulling in several
different directions. I see no hope that the opponents of same-sex
marriage will prevail when they cannot even agree on a common strategy.
John W
ear right and wrong in the current
debate. And we ought to choose the right regardless of what may become
necessary in some yet unforeseen future. Laws that are passed can be
repealed. Even amendments can be repealed as circumstances change.
John W. Redelfs[EMAIL
In the news today we learn from John Kerry that a number of foreign leaders
strongly hope that he wins the Presidency in November. Which
leaders? Well, Kerry can't say, of course. But allow me to guess: The
leaders of North Korea, Vietnam, China, Cuba and Canada. --JWR
///
t
one, without hearing the evidence or both sides of the story?
The mob mentality, driven by the media, would be laughable if it weren't so
sad.
John W. Redelfs[EMAIL PROTECTED]
=
The traditional family is under heavy a
RB Scott wrote:
My guess is that it won't be approved by Congress. The danger in
a drawn out, bitter campaign that ultimately loses is that it
will absorb so much political and financial captial there won't
be much left over to shape how (or if) same sex marriage is
presented in the schools. A des
is running on the American Party ticket? The Constitution
Party? The Libertarian Party?
John W. Redelfs[EMAIL PROTECTED]
=
The traditional family is under heavy attack. I do not know
that things were worse in the times of
goose is cooked. I pray
that it is not so.
John W. Redelfs[EMAIL PROTECTED]
=
The traditional family is under heavy attack. I do not know
that things were worse in the times of Sodom and Gomorrah.
-- President Gordon B
think we should assume up front that an amendment
is politically impossible. And we should remember that what can be done
with a simple majority can be undone with a simple majority. If an
amendment would be harder to pass, it would also be much harder to repeal.
John W. Redelfs
traditional marriage states and gay marriage
states.
But...
I may be wrong. It may be that Musgrave amendment is not passable in its
current form. If so, then the Hatch idea is better than the current situation.
John W. Redelfs
Martha Stewart is guilty on all counts.
//
/// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at ///
/// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html ///
/
--
l Amendment to define marriage as the union between a
man and a woman. I would be pleased to take any questions.
John W. Redelfs[EMAIL PROTECTED]
=
The traditional family is under heavy attack. I do not know
that thing
unmarried
couples or groups.
---
Question: Is this the amendment, introduced in May of 2003, that President
Bush is asking Congress to send out to the states? Or is there some other
federal marriage amendment with different wording that is being promoted?
John W. Redelfs
etter standard of living when we already have
one of the highest standards of living in the world.
John W. Redelfs[EMAIL PROTECTED]
=
The traditional family is under heavy attack. I do not know
that things were worse in the times of
ays." I am
so happy about finding this. There seems to be a lot of other good stuff
at this Internet address too.
John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED]
===
"While we cannot agree with others on certain matters, we
must never be
RB Scott wrote:
I'll stick with Tom. I'm a low brow kinda guy.
What do you know about Thomas Wolfe who wrote Look Homeward, Angel? I
almost borrowed that one before I noticed Tom Wolfe right next to it on the
shelf.
John W. Redelfs [EMAIL
... I wonder if they will ever do a movie of THE BOOK OF THE NEW SUN.
John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED]
===
"While we cannot agree with others on certain matters, we
must never be disagreeable. We must be friendly,
soft-spoken, neig
who depress
me. I read WE THE LIVING by Ayn Rand a number of years ago, and I have
steadfastly refused to read anything else by her. My depressions don't
need any help.
Tell me, if I were to read a book by Roth, which one should I try first,
something that would make me feel good about bein
sible that you are just too old to like fantasy? I
thought you were my age. I am the same age as Mel Perkins.
Your friend and brother,
John W. Redelfs, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
//
/// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read
in my opinion. The first two movies were wonderful, and this last of three
promises to be the best of them all. So if you are also a moviegoer, you
would really look forward to December 17th when Return of the King opens
nationwide. I know that I do.
John W. Redelfs [
RB Scott wrote:
It's only offensive to a few PC-Nazis and guv-jocks. I don't know a
single, ah, Occidental who prefers the non-descriptive "Asian." Of course
they'd rather be Malayasian, Chineese, Japanese or Korean...whatever
applies.
Er... you meant Oriental, didn't you? --JWR
///
tion about the "plain and precious parts"
being removed from the Bible. Does this have reference to letters, words
and phrases removed from the books that are included in the 66 book
canon? Or does this have reference to book that were excluded when the
canon was made up? Or bo
Bible, Book of Mormon, and scriptures of the Lost
Tribes? Could this have reference to such writings as the Dead Sea Scrolls
and Nag Hammadi manuscripts? Or is it a reference to writings that have
not yet been discovered?
John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED]
===
A Programmer and an Engineer are sitting next to each other on
a long flight from LA to Paris.
The Programmer leans over to the Engineer and asks if he would
like to play a fun game.
The Engineer just wants to take a nap, so he politely declines
and rolls over to the windo
The Hymn of Judas Thomas the Apostle
The Hymn of the Pearl
or
The Hymn of the Robe of Glory
When I was a little child,
and dwelling in my kingdom,
in my father's house, and was content with the wealth and the
luxuries of my nourishers,
from the East, our home,
my parents equipped me (and) sent me
Tomorrow it is exactly one month until the opening of The Lord of the
Rings: The Return of the King on December 17th. --JWR
//
/// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at ///
/// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html
Jim Cobabe wrote:
Internet radio is coming into its own. Most major media outlets have
established a presence there, and it will become more and more popular as
wireless network devices continue to proliferate.
What are some of your favorite Internet radio destinations? I've just
recently begu
rom
the Old and New Testaments?
John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED]
===
"While we cannot agree with others on certain matters, we
must never be disagreeable. We must be friendly,
soft-spoken, neighborly, and understanding." (Preside
he Bible "with the Holy
Spirit as a guide," and we cannot benefit from reading the Bible without
that guide. Everything that is said here of the Apocrypha could as well be
said about the whole Bible, so what is the point in making a distinction?
John W. Redelfs [EM
RB Scott wrote:
Great story. It's been circulating for weeks.
Where did you first read it, Ron? Old news isn't very useful. --JWR
//
/// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at ///
/// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.ht
orldnet Daily" on the Web. They make no
pretense of objectivity, but they give me the right-wing slant that I can't
get anywhere else.
What am I overlooking. I'm a little bored with the news sources I've been
using. I'd like to try something new.
John
list and still have a rip-roaring
discussion, aren't you?
John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED]
===
"While we cannot agree with others on certain matters, we
must never be disagreeable. We must be friendly,
soft-spoken, neig
I don't know which party I am more upset with, the Democrats for dragging
the country to the left, or the Republicans for putting up the sham fight
that let them do it. --JWR
//
/// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at
Tom Matkin wrote:
Sonnet 133 (Some children live for only just a while)
by Tom Matkin, March 30, 2002
Some children live for only just a while
Mere visitors not really part of us
Perhaps they've proved themselves without this trial
Not needing but a touch of all this fuss.
It wounds us when they ge
Cousin Bill wrote:
Does anyone here even know that the World Cup volleyball tournament is
being held? Here in Japan it's hard to find much else on TV right
now. Seems quite silly. I mean, it isn't like we're talking about a real
sport like football (the real kind, not that whimpy game more co
RB Scott wrote:
Cool your fighting blood and freshen your synapses, Till. If Brother
McConkie is right this will obviously be a war of words -- of good
thinking/doing prevailing over evil. Otherwise, s'plain to me how one
would go about slaying the a spirit, or one of the Three Nephites, for
If God is a man, and he existed before the world, and he created the world,
how could mankind have evolved on this planet? I mean, how did God become
a man?
//
/// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at ///
/// http://
en't causing me
permanent brain damage. Maybe it is early onset Alzheimers. Dang!
Your friend and brother,
John W. Redelfs, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
//
/// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at ///
/// http://www.zionsb
Don't forget the greed gap. That is the difference between a man's
physiological needs, and his psychological needs for a particular standard
of living. --JWR
//
/// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at ///
/// http:
I grew up outside the Church and met a number of good, honorable, even
Christlike people. But the most Christlike people I have ever known, by
far, are a small number of Mormons that I have met since joining the
Church. But that is just anecdotal. --JWR
//
e of
them. I'm still convinced that the best people are inside the Church. I
have to believe that or discount the need for the gospel in the world.
John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED]
===
"While we cannot agree with others on
estialized and
become the abode of the righteous forever. (D. & C. 88:16-31, 116.)
John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED]
===
"While we cannot agree with others on certain matters, we
must never be disagreeable. We must be friendly,
Tom Matkin wrote:
What are the correlating factors between gun ownership and illegal drug
usage that lead you to make this comparison? Are you suggesting that,
like drugs, gun ownership is an activity used to escape from the
harshness or boredom of everyday life that is so highly addictive that
pe
d you ever hear that one, John?
John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED]
===
"While we cannot agree with others on certain matters, we
must never be disagreeable. We must be friendly,
soft-spoken, neighborly, and understanding." (Pr
e enough knowledge then, won't they? Or is this war going
to be fought strictly between those who are mortal upon the earth then?
John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED]
===
"While we cannot agree with others on certain matters, w
Is having ones Calling and Election Made Sure and being sealed by the Holy
Spirit of Promise the same thing? --JWR
//
/// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at ///
/// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html ///
All the talk of gun control is really quite besides the point. The fact
is, the government in the United States couldn't control the guns even if
it could pass the legislation. They can't even control the drugs. This
country is completely out of control, and until there is widespread
nationa
up to war against Jerusalem
17. Constitution saved when it hangs by a thread
18. Anti-christ rises up before all nations
19. No man can buy or sell without the mark of the beast
20. Renewed persecution of the saints
What else? What have I missed?
John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROT
rs
13. Wars and rumors of wars
14. False Christs and false prophets
15. Violence proliferates
16. Surge in witchcraft and satanism
17. Desolating sickness [AIDS] covers the land
Which ones am I missing?
John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROT
Stephen Beecroft wrote:
Christopher Hitchens hates "Mother" Teresa. This is not a secret.
Given some of Hitchens' proclivities, I am not necessarily prone to
uncritical acceptance of his viewpoint, but the man is very intelligent
and, I think, makes a few good points. (Not that I know enough abou
Stephen Beecroft wrote:
//
/// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at ///
/// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html ///
/
You seem to have fo
ntrol.
How do these signs of the times help you?
John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED]
===
"The study of the doctrines of the Gospel will improve
behavior quicker than a study of behavior wil
Didn't one of the apostles give a talk "How to Become a Gospel Scholar" or
some such title? Does anyone here know which talk I'm referring to? Who
gave it? Where it can be found? --JWR
//
/// ZION LIST CHARTER: Plea
Stephen Beecroft wrote:
Now remember his socially-inept, clumsy, nerdy little zit-faced brother
who stammered a lot and wet his pants during the sex ed segment of
Health class? That's me.
Very funny, Stephen. You forget that some of us have met you and your
family. --JWR
//
Jon Spencer wrote:
> My wife hopes to retire in about three years. We hope to serve missions
> for the Church if our health permits. In the meantime, I'll prepare for
my
> mission with scripture and gospel study, and by continuing to run these
> email lists.
So, whose going to take over the email
Gerald Smith wrote:
I have some quotes here, which will show that one must do more than
receive the Holy Ghost and reject it to become a candidate for perdition.
You will see that one must receive the Holy Ghost, have the heavens
opened up, know God, and then totally and completely rebel.
I agree w
is chocolate mousse cheesecake. My favorite color is yellow. And
my favorite firearm is the 1911A1 Colt .45 ACP.
And now you know more about me than you probably want to know. If I've
left anything out, just ask.
John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED]
=
#x27;t the best hat I've every owned. I have ambitions to own
an even better hat, by and by, maybe a homburg but probably another fedora.
Where do you get your hats? Here in Ketchikan the selection is dismal. Do
you buy any of them on the Internet. If so, what are
Steven Montgomery wrote:
Well, the other day I traded it for an almost brand new EZ3-Trike (A 21
speed recumbent trike which can go faster than a mountain bike. My kids
can't ride a regular bike so we were looking for various types of trikes
that they could ride) worth $750.00. Which means that
Cousin Bill wrote:
New thread attempt number 2.
The topic of Dungeons and Dragons has come up before. Someone
forwarded this to me, so I thought I would forward it to you
guys. If you've never played D&D then you might not understand
what you come out as. But this link shows you what alignment,
Grampa Bill in Savannah wrote:
It has been written that if a boy does not grow up to be a better man than
his father, then they are both failures. Can we parphrase that to say that
if a boy doesn't grow up to be further to the right than his father (or
mother) then they are both failures?
Sounds
) receive the vision given to Nephi
and Moses. A person can qualify by merely having the testimony of the Holy
Ghost that Jesus is the Christ and then turn altogether away from that
testimony and knowingly fight against him.
John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED]
===
Lew Thomas wrote:
You are invited to the Tabernacle on Temple Square in Salt Lake City on
FRIDAY, NOV. 7, FROM 7 TO 8 P.M. to hear President Gordon B. Hinckley
and new BYU President Cecil O. Samuelson speak at a Worldwide Alumni
Gathering.
Because we do not have email addresses for all our BYU al
"Evidently many among us have made a dreadful mistake, but not
unpardonable, in thinking that the sons of perdition will be very few. We
have heard it said at times that they will be so few that they probably
could be "counted on the fingers of one hand." Where this thought
originated we may no
Steven Montgomery wrote:
Let's see, if I recall correctly, I've read the Teachings of President
Spencer W. Kimball, Ezra Taft Benson, Howard W. Hunter and Gordon B.
Hinckley. I've also read the Journal of Discourses. I have also read the
complete (to my knowledge, at least) published works of, S
There is a worldwide BYU Alumni satellite broadcast tonight, but I don't
know the time. Is anyone here planning to attend? --JWR
//
/// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at ///
/// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.ht
Steven Montgomery wrote:
The play by Aristophanes is book two of a "Great Books of the Western
World" reading plan (See: http://www.io.com/~beckerdo/books/gb195210.html
) that I have embarked upon. There are many such plans available. Many of
the books (Or selections) I have already read so I mi
e and on some of the other lists. Recently I finished
reading a western by Ralph Compton entitled THE VIRGINIA CITY TRAIL. Also,
I'm trying to finish up reading THE TEACHINGS OF GORDON B. HINCKLEY, but I
have quite a way to go. It is a pretty big book and not exactly fast reading.
John
Gerald Smith wrote:
I'm currently reading this note you sent. ;-)
I'm also involved in "how to write science fiction and fantasy" by our
own Orson Scott Card; and "The Book of J" edited by Harold Bloom.
Gary
This is really a coincidence. I'm reading THE AMERICAN RELIGION by Bloom,
and he makes
Ron Scott wrote:
Somehow I misplaced the address for the website, where I can read posts on
line. Would you please forward the address to me when you get a moment.
http://topica.com/lists/zion/read
//
/// ZION LIST CHART
Valerie Nielsen Williams wrote:
It's even harder for an older (middle-aged) widow. I wouldn't mind
finding a time-only companion. But it seems that the widowers in the
church want to be sealed to another woman, instead of finding one who is
already sealed. At my bishop's behest I tried LDSPlanet
Ron Scott wrote:
If she lives in Newton and attends the "regular" ward for the city (as
opposed to the many student wards in Cambridge) she goes ( I assume, given
her relationship to you, that she's "active") to church in Weston, where
I'm supposed to. Her bishop is a very good friend, Cary Hopki
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