Jim Fulton wrote:
- The zope.org community site is a mess. Lots of outstanding problems
are not fixed, the performance
of the site is more than poor (it takes ages to login, it takes
ages to load pages),
usability (e.g. when you perform a software release) is bad.
Yes, that's a bad situatio
Andreas Jung wrote:
Yeah...just had a look a zopewiki.org it seems to be a great place. I
wonder why we were not
able to built a such place there were it would belong to: zope.org?
Indeed. I shall see if I can put some input there...
Any chance ZopeWiki.org could become the master location for t
Stephan Richter wrote:
Nobody is willing to contribute. ZC agreed to change zope.org to Plone so more
community members can contribute. But noone has stepped up; that's very sad.
Sorry, but I think you'll find several people stepped up, and ZC slapped them in
the face with a big fat legal docume
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Please pardon my slowness to respond. Zope is (still) not (yet) my full-time
occupation.
Jim Fulton wrote:
| Troy Farrell wrote:
|>
|> Philipp, not everyone follows well-planned, ideal upgrade practices.
|
| There's only so much we can do for people wh
> Maybe this is (still) relevant to building Zope under Cygwin,
> maybe not:
>
>
http://www.zope.org/Members/dgeorgieff/howto_zope_cvs_on_cygwin/index_ht
ml
Python release23-maint and Zope 2.7 just builds fine on cygwin with the
usual ./configure, make, make install sequence.
Regards,
Sandor
[Max M]
>>> Or perhaps an automated nightly Windows build.
[Stephan Richter]
>> We have talked about it many times before, but simply lack the
>> bandwidth. Maybe you could provide this for Cygwin?
[Max M]
> Argh ... that wasn't fair.
>
> Ok I will try and find some time to look into it.
A probl
Paul Winkler wrote:
On Wed, Apr 21, 2004 at 08:10:26PM +0200, Peter Sabaini wrote:
* Reference: IMHO one of the trickier things, especially for the API
Ref. because one would first have to decide what constitutes the API and
what is simply Zope core...
The long-term solution, I think, is to fi
On Wed, Apr 21, 2004 at 08:10:26PM +0200, Peter Sabaini wrote:
> * Reference: IMHO one of the trickier things, especially for the API
> Ref. because one would first have to decide what constitutes the API and
> what is simply Zope core...
The long-term solution, I think, is to fix the API mess i
On Wed, 2004-04-21 at 14:57, Jim Fulton wrote:
> Here's one: For each release (e.g. 2.8, 2.9) identify a small
> team of release managers. This team would be responsible for
> planning and executing the release, including bug-fix releases
> for that base release. That team could establish the pol
On Wed, Apr 21, 2004 at 10:41:27AM -0400, Casey Duncan wrote:
> I agree that bugs deserve more attention. We need to have more bug days.
> I meant to suggest a date last week, but I got diverted. How would
> people feel about next Thursday, April 29?
Stop feeling and do it! No, I can't join, becau
From: "Jim Fulton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Year checkins people
> 2002 7090 33
> 2003 5276 34
> 2004 1103 24 # First 3 1/2 months
>
> There is some decline, as one would expect in a mature
> product.
Also, I expect most people is like me. I only fix bugs if they bite me, and
I understand
Andreas Jung wrote:
--On Dienstag, 20. April 2004 17:19 Uhr -0400 Fred Drake <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> - when adding
> LOG = getLogger(...)
> LOG.info(...)
> to some modules then the output is only written to the event.log but
no > longer to stdout
>(if running in debug mo
Hi!
I am not too active on the Zope mailing lists any more because there is
not too much time left for it. But this thread asks for a comment. So
here it is:
First of all, I am not sure if the release policy of Zope 3, and the
whole concept of doing a complete rewrite was right or wrong, but a
Martijn Faassen wrote:
Hey there,
I understand from:
http://dev.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Projects/Zope2.8/MilestonePlan
Zope 2.8 is now planned for june.
This is, of course, a function of people's availability to help.
I still need to fix ZClasses, and I need to get through the Zope X3.0
to-do li
On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 20:36:29 +0200
Andreas Jung <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> --On Mittwoch, 21. April 2004 10:41 Uhr -0400 Casey Duncan
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > On a bright note, I think zopewiki.org could change that. It
> > *greatly* lowers the bar on contributing substantive d
On Wed, 2004-04-21 at 14:52, Paul Winkler wrote:
> Why don't we use the project CVS at sourceforge?
> http://sourceforge.net/cvs/?group_id=21038
> I see you're an admin there.
I'm +0 on the idea.. if you and Peter are more comfortable with it than
using BackTalk, I'll set it up. It's just diffic
Tres Seaver wrote:
Chris Withers wrote:
Tres Seaver wrote:
Chris,
I would call the 2.6 branch "closed except for serious security
bugs"; please don't check in new features or minor bugfixes there.
How come? and was this announced anywhere?
See the last topic in:
http://dev.zope.org/CVS/Z
On Wed, Apr 21, 2004 at 02:13:30PM -0400, Chris McDonough wrote:
> I've set up a development BackTalk sandbox for the 2.7 edition of the
> Zope book at http://zope.org/Documentation/Books/ZopeBook/2_7Edition.
> Currently it's just an exact copy of the 2.6 Edition book (comments and
> all).
> Also,
Chris McDonough wrote:
I've set up a development BackTalk sandbox for the 2.7 edition of the
Zope book at http://zope.org/Documentation/Books/ZopeBook/2_7Edition.
Currently it's just an exact copy of the 2.6 Edition book (comments and
all). I think the plan should be for people to:
1. take owner
--On Mittwoch, 21. April 2004 10:41 Uhr -0400 Casey Duncan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
On a bright note, I think zopewiki.org could change that. It *greatly*
lowers the bar on contributing substantive docs for Zope. I would
implore all of you (as in you, the reader of this message, yes you!) to
g
Sigh. I think I stressed Zope.org to its breaking point by creating a
Wiki page. It's down.
- C
On Wed, 2004-04-21 at 14:13, Chris McDonough wrote:
> I've set up a development BackTalk sandbox for the 2.7 edition of the
> Zope book at http://zope.org/Documentation/Books/ZopeBook/2_7Edition.
>
On Wed, 2004-04-21 at 14:10, Peter Sabaini wrote:
> Chris McDonough wrote:
> > On Wed, 2004-04-21 at 10:18, Peter Sabaini wrote:
> >
> Ok then...
>
> I think the following issues would deserve attention:
>
> * Installing chapter: I'm working on it and hope to finish soon (no
> really this time!
I've set up a development BackTalk sandbox for the 2.7 edition of the
Zope book at http://zope.org/Documentation/Books/ZopeBook/2_7Edition.
Currently it's just an exact copy of the 2.6 Edition book (comments and
all). I think the plan should be for people to:
1. take ownership of a chapter or tw
Jim Fulton wrote:
> >Oh, and about Maik's comment that ZC is the bottleneck in Z2 dev--Jim,
>
> I think it was Andreas
Ah, you're right, oh well apart from who said it...
> >you might not agree with Maik, but hidden security bugs over a year
> >old aren't something the rest of the community can
Chris McDonough wrote:
On Wed, 2004-04-21 at 10:18, Peter Sabaini wrote:
That being said, I wonder if there are people interested to make an
effort for a 2.7 Edition of the Zope book?
I am. I think Paul is too. It won't be nearly as much work as 2.5 ->
2.6. Let's just do it. Wanna pick chap
Hey there,
I understand from:
http://dev.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Projects/Zope2.8/MilestonePlan
Zope 2.8 is now planned for june. If Zope 2.8 is indeed released by june
this could fit fairly well with my own (also delayed :) plans for using
this facility in Silva. The obvious area I could try t
Jim Fulton wrote:
Tres Seaver wrote:
Jim Fulton wrote:
Jim Fulton wrote:
Based on recent discussions, I've created a proposal:
http://dev.zope.org/Zope3/RenameTheZopePackage
to rename the "zope" package to "z". Unless there are strong
objections, we'll do this after we move the Zope reposito
Jamie Heilman wrote:
..
Oh, and about Maik's comment that ZC is the bottleneck in Z2 dev--Jim,
I think it was Andreas
you might not agree with Maik, but hidden security bugs over a year old
aren't something the rest of the community can do anything about.
Are you suggesting that we hid them? As
Martijn Faassen wrote:
Jim Fulton wrote:
I'm surprised to read this. Could you be more specific about your
concerns?
Did you read Andreas Jung's mail? He was pretty specific, but I had to
hunt around as in my mailreader his reply had broken the thread.
I was responding to Philipp, not Andreas.
Casey Duncan wrote:
On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:36:31 +0200
Andreas Jung <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
- very few people are willing to contribute to documentation
On a bright note, I think zopewiki.org could change that. It *greatly*
lowers the bar on contributing substantive docs for Zope. I would
impl
Stephan Richter wrote:
Nobody is willing to contribute. ZC agreed to change zope.org to Plone so more
community members can contribute. But noone has stepped up; that's very sad.
I believe part of the blockage is because contributors have to sign far
more than just a simple CVS contributor's agr
Stephan Richter wrote:
For Zope 3 however, I can give a very well-informed opinion. Philipp privately
pointed out to me that people exected Zope 3 technologies to arrive earlier
in Zope 2, such as the CA and principals maybe.
Note that you were one of those people, in 2002. I remembering you
r
On Wed, Apr 21, 2004 at 10:41:27AM -0400, Casey Duncan wrote:
> I agree that bugs deserve more attention. We need to have more bug days.
> I meant to suggest a date last week, but I got diverted. How would
> people feel about next Thursday, April 29?
+1
--
Paul Winkler
http://www.slinkp.com
On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 13:10:51 -0400
Chris McDonough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Wed, 2004-04-21 at 10:18, Peter Sabaini wrote:
> > That being said, I wonder if there are people interested to make an
> > effort for a 2.7 Edition of the Zope book?
>
> I am. I think Paul is too. It won't be ne
robert rottermann wrote:
> will not be able to participate
easily on the academic Zope3 train. The technic
freaks who modell Zope3 are usually not application
developers, which have to build and run working
> applications for real human users.
That's both insulting and incorrect. Many of the
On Wed, 2004-04-21 at 10:18, Peter Sabaini wrote:
> That being said, I wonder if there are people interested to make an
> effort for a 2.7 Edition of the Zope book?
I am. I think Paul is too. It won't be nearly as much work as 2.5 ->
2.6. Let's just do it. Wanna pick chapters? I'll get the n
Casey Duncan wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:36:31 +0200
> Andreas Jung <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Some remarks from my side as a Zope2 core developer on this issue:
> >
> > The Z2 community and development is currently at a bad point:
> >
> > - very few people are contributing to the Z2
Martin Kretschmar wrote:
> Maik Jablonski of the german speaking Zope Users Group
> DZUG issued a pretty bleak outlook for the future of
> Zope. What are your oppinions?
Hi to all,
I'm not able to respond to all mails in this thread due to a "trashed"
shoulder (very unlucky cyclocross-crash last
Troy Farrell wrote:
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Hash: SHA1
Philipp von Weitershausen wrote:
|> Troy Farrell wrote:
|>
|> -1 on alternative 4. This lurker is with Tres. This is a Z3
|> challenge. I wonder how many part-time Zope 2 admins will be happy
|> about making this change and having
Philipp von Weitershausen wrote:
Why would they switch to Zope 2.8 if not for the component architecture?
To stay current? To get MVCC? To get new-style extension classes, and
thus access to many modern Python features. Later releases will provide
benefits beyond just the Z3 features.
Jim
--
Jim
Syver Enstad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I am using ZODB 3.2 in a twisted based web application. I have read
> that I need to call sync to keep the connection up to date. When
> exactly should I call sync? Are there any drawbacks with calling it
> immediately after getting a connection, like thi
Andreas Jung wrote:
Some remarks from my side as a Zope2 core developer on this issue:
The Z2 community and development is currently at a bad point:
- very few people are contributing to the Z2 in terms of new code and
bug fixes
(see the tons of open bugs in the collector)
In the last year, 3
What do you have the transient object timeout set for?
On Wed, 2004-04-21 at 02:57, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Hi Chris,
>
> On Tue, 20 Apr 2004, Chris McDonough wrote:
>
> > > I am using new Transience.py, and my temp_folder is on Sessions.fs ZODB
> > > now. I have one problem with it - it doe
On Wed, Apr 21, 2004 at 04:18:17PM +0200, Peter Sabaini wrote:
> Stephan Richter wrote:
> >On Wednesday 21 April 2004 03:58, Martin Kretschmar wrote:
>
> -- snip --
>
> >2. Maik is is frustrated with the releases of both Zope 2 and Zope 3,
> >including their merging.
>
> -- snip --
>
> >The
Hello,
> Jim,
>
> we native german speakers tend to be much more direct
> and phrase dings more bluntly the you americans do.
> In german I read Maik's statement as a strong opinion
> but never as an insult.
>
> Since I am the one who asked Mike to speak up I would
> feel bad if it created any bad
Stephan Richter wrote:
On Wednesday 21 April 2004 10:40, Max M wrote:
Or perhaps an automated nightly Windows build.
We have talked about it many times before, but simply lack the bandwidth.
Maybe you could provide this for Cygwin?
Argh ... that wasn't fair.
Ok I will try and find some time to
robert rottermann wrote:
> will not be able to participate
easily on the academic Zope3 train. The technic
freaks who modell Zope3 are usually not application
developers, which have to build and run working
> applications for real human users.
That's both insulting and incorrect. Many of the l
Jim Fulton wrote:
I'm surprised to read this. Could you be more specific about your concerns?
Did you read Andreas Jung's mail? He was pretty specific, but I had to
hunt around as in my mailreader his reply had broken the thread.
Regards,
Martijn
___
On Wednesday 21 April 2004 09:40 am, Max M wrote:
> Stephan Richter wrote:
> > However,
> > we are getting the first alpha out by the end of the month. Hopefully, by end
> > of May we will have finished the X3.0 to-do list and will release the beta.
> > At this point the API will freeze and appl
On Wednesday 21 April 2004 10:40, Max M wrote:
> I normally don't develop in c. So I don't have Visual Studion installed.
You can also use cygwin.
> I have downloaded the milestones and tried them out. But then I read
> about this and that *geddon, and think "well guess I should wait for
> anothe
> will not be able to participate
easily on the academic Zope3 train. The technic
freaks who modell Zope3 are usually not application
developers, which have to build and run working
> applications for real human users.
That's both insulting and incorrect. Many of the leaders
of the Zope 2 comm
On Wednesday 21 April 2004 10:18, Peter Sabaini wrote:
> > The situation is even more obvious with the Zope book. All the community
> > has to do is to give a particular part/chapter/section to a couple of
> > people for maintenance. But oh wait, that would need someone to manage
> > this effort an
Philipp von Weitershausen wrote:
Martin, Maik, Andreas, and others,
I see two issues being raised in this thread:
2. Especially Andreas expressed his worries about the current release
policy in Zope 2 and its future regarding maintainance and support. I
have to say that I share some of his sk
Stephan Richter wrote:
Concerning the release schedule, ZC has little to do with that for Zope 3. In
fact, I have been release manager since this summer and I am responsible for
the release schedule and packages. However, I decided not to release often,
since again we do not have bandwidth to
On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:36:31 +0200
Andreas Jung <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Some remarks from my side as a Zope2 core developer on this issue:
>
> The Z2 community and development is currently at a bad point:
>
> - very few people are contributing to the Z2 in terms of new code and
> bug
> f
Max M wrote:
Martin Kretschmar wrote:
Shortly said, the whole set of stupidities in
connection with Zope3. It is a pretty bad state
for a project, if it looms for years as the
followup project on the horizon but in reality
isn't one!
It looks like the classical strategic mistake:
http://www.jo
Martin Kretschmar wrote:
Hello,
Maik Jablonski of the german speaking Zope Users Group
DZUG issued a pretty bleak outlook for the future of
Zope. What are your oppinions?
Here comes the translation of his oppoion:
Maik, what makes you look full of scepticism for
the future of Zope?
Shortly sai
On Wednesday 21 April 2004 05:52 am, Eckart Hertzler wrote:
> I don't agree.
> I am new to zope. So I tried zope2 first, because plone had a lot of appeal.
> I got discouraged very quickly, because zope2 is so very grown over a time
> it's hard to join later.
>
> Zope3 seemed quite well documented
Stephan Richter wrote:
On Wednesday 21 April 2004 03:58, Martin Kretschmar wrote:
-- snip --
2. Maik is is frustrated with the releases of both Zope 2 and Zope 3,
including their merging.
-- snip --
The situation is even more obvious with the Zope book. All the community has
to do is to give
On Wednesday 21 April 2004 03:58, Martin Kretschmar wrote:
> Maik Jablonski of the german speaking Zope Users Group
> DZUG issued a pretty bleak outlook for the future of
> Zope. What are your oppinions?
To not make the previous mail too long, here my general opinion.
1. Maik likes to do things t
On Wednesday 21 April 2004 03:58, Martin Kretschmar wrote:
> Maik Jablonski of the german speaking Zope Users Group
> DZUG issued a pretty bleak outlook for the future of
> Zope. What are your oppinions?
I think Chris is right to say that Maik had a bad day. If not, and if he is
serious about his
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Philipp von Weitershausen wrote:
|> Troy Farrell wrote:
|>
|> -1 on alternative 4. This lurker is with Tres. This is a Z3
|> challenge. I wonder how many part-time Zope 2 admins will be happy
|> about making this change and having to retest code they
Thanks! I have found the error_log object in the ZMI too.
Dave
-Original Message-
From: Willi Langenberger [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 6:41 PM
To: Mika, David P (Research)
Cc: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
Subject: Re: [Zope-dev] zope 2.7.0: no tracebacks produced
Acc
Chris Withers wrote:
Tres Seaver wrote:
Chris,
I would call the 2.6 branch "closed except for serious security bugs";
please don't check in new features or minor bugfixes there.
How come? and was this announced anywhere?
See the last topic in:
http://dev.zope.org/CVS/ZopeDevelopmentProcess
Stephan Richter wrote:
Hi,
As stated before, I think that can be changed, if enough interest is shown in
the community. But I think the Zope community lacks strong leaders; too many
people are only interested in making money with it without realizing that
their future depends on the general suc
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Tres Seaver wrote:
|
|> Jim Fulton wrote:
|> ...
|> I've gotten enough negative feedback to "z", that I've added an
|> alternative 4
|> to the proposal:
|>
|> 4. Rename the Zope package to Zope2 and provide a legacy Zope
|> package
|
| -1, for re
Martin, Maik, Andreas, and others,
I see two issues being raised in this thread:
1. Maik disagrees with the design philosophy behind Zope3 (the Component
Architecture) and the place Zope3 wants to position itself at in the
future. As a Zope developer who has spent the last two years both
devel
Hi,
the points I snipped I agree with and/or have no new input for.
On Wednesday 21 April 2004 05:36, Andreas Jung wrote:
> The reasons for this situation from my prospective:
>
> - Lots of Z2 people are working now on Plone projects. Plone currently
> attracts more people
> because the imp
Personally, I think Zope3 has a great future, and will pick up a much
larger community than Zope2 ever did, because it's better designed and
better documented.
In general, the people who stand to gain immediately (or pretty soon)
from Zope3 are enthusiasts; newcomers; and ZC.
However, if the p
my nz$ 0.02 worth
- is the future bleak? nothing seems to awry to me, this copy you
pasted has no basis for argument - why even bother pasting it
- for some upgrades of zope 2.* I need to rethink some rather
understandable aspects of my zope products - each one appears to be a
migration to z3
Tres Seaver wrote:
Chris,
I would call the 2.6 branch "closed except for serious security bugs";
please don't check in new features or minor bugfixes there.
How come? and was this announced anywhere?
I don't see what harm applying minor bugfixes to any release branch could do...
Chris
--
Simpl
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Hash: SHA1
On Wednesday 21 April 2004 11:53, Andre Meyer is believed to have said:
> Well, Maik has more than a bad day. In fact, he is rather right about
> the points he raises!
>
> I have been developing for Zope for about half a year now and it took
> consider
is there an URL for the original?
Martin Kretschmar wrote:
Hello,
Maik Jablonski of the german speaking Zope Users Group
DZUG issued a pretty bleak outlook for the future of
Zope. What are your oppinions?
Here comes the translation of his oppoion:
smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Sig
Martin Kretschmar wrote:
Shortly said, the whole set of stupidities in
connection with Zope3. It is a pretty bad state
for a project, if it looms for years as the
followup project on the horizon but in reality
isn't one!
It looks like the classical strategic mistake:
http://www.joelonsoftware.co
Well, Maik has more than a bad day. In fact, he is rather right about
the points he raises!
I have been developing for Zope for about half a year now and it took
considerable effort to get anything going. I have experience with
filesystem-based Zope 2 products, Plone and Archteypes and a bit of
Some remarks from my side as a Zope2 core developer on this issue:
The Z2 community and development is currently at a bad point:
- very few people are contributing to the Z2 in terms of new code and bug
fixes
(see the tons of open bugs in the collector)
- very few people are willing to contr
Andreas Jung wrote:
- In debug mode, use an alternate or auxillary logging configuration to
replace or augment the configuration section. This is more
work up front, but keeps everything flexible.
Maybe too much overkill...not sure if one needs an academic solution
here...
I'm guessing ther
Martin Kretschmar wrote:
Maik Jablonski of the german speaking Zope Users Group
DZUG issued a pretty bleak outlook for the future of
Zope. What are your oppinions?
Maik's having a bad day, he'll get over it ;-)
Chris
--
Simplistix - Content Management, Zope & Python Consulting
- http:
Shane Hathaway wrote:
Even with unbreakable encryption of credentials after login, you still
send the username and password in the clear at login time, and sniffers
can reuse the session ID with ease. You really shouldn't tell the Plone
users they will be safer with a session token, because they
Barry Warsaw wrote:
AFAIK, the online logging package docs are about it. That's not the
easiest way to learn how to use the package unfortunately.
*sigh*
What is the easiest way then?
Chris
--
Simplistix - Content Management, Zope & Python Consulting
- http://www.simplistix.co.uk
__
I am using ZODB 3.2 in a twisted based web application. I have read
that I need to call sync to keep the connection up to date. When
exactly should I call sync? Are there any drawbacks with calling it
immediately after getting a connection, like this:
# for each http request.
connection = db.open
Hello,
Maik Jablonski of the german speaking Zope Users Group
DZUG issued a pretty bleak outlook for the future of
Zope. What are your oppinions?
Here comes the translation of his oppoion:
> Maik, what makes you look full of scepticism for
> the future of Zope?
Shortly said, the whole set of st
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