On 4/20/09 3:35 AM, Martijn Faassen wrote:
> Stephan Richter wrote:
>> On Sunday 19 April 2009, Tres Seaver wrote:
>>> -1. As a branding choice (as opposed to a technology), "Zope 3" *is* a
>>> dead-end: it implies a strategy (replacing Zope 2) which we no longer
>>> believe in. I think the cons
On 3/4/09 9:47 AM, Roger Ineichen wrote:
> Hi Paul
>
>> Betreff: Re: [Zope-dev] the Zope Framework project
>>
>> On 3/4/09 8:16 AM, Martin Aspeli wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>> Chameleon provided something that made it work for those
>> users, while allowing it to not be burdened by those needs.
>> Everybod
On 3/4/09 8:16 AM, Martin Aspeli wrote:
> Paul Everitt wrote:
>
>> When I read Martin's post, I had a similar reaction. Namely, that the
>> convenience of the Uberthing (Plone in this case) will always trump the
>> desire of packages trying to survive on their own
On 3/4/09 1:07 AM, Chris McDonough wrote:
> Martin Aspeli wrote:
>> Chris McDonough wrote:
>>
>>> Sorry, the "you" above in "you scolded" was Martin Aspeli, not Faassen.
>> Note that the "scolding" had something to do with you breaking Plone
>> trunk due to a transitive change in Chameleon, and the
On 3/3/09 2:42 PM, Chris McDonough wrote:
> Martijn Faassen wrote:
>> And you think it's all due to the brand...
>
> Yes! Someone who *wants* to use basic ZCML directives but doesn't want
> zope.security, zope.location, zope.publisher, zope.traversing, zope.i18n, and
> pytz can *already* use repoz
On 3/3/09 9:37 AM, Kent Tenney wrote:
> I'll chime in as a newbie.
>
> It seems many of the comments preferring ad-hoc to structure
> come from "we know what we are doing, we can take care of ourselves"
>
> I think Zope has the goal of attracting new users, and the proposal
> has potential to make
On 3/2/09 6:36 PM, Martijn Faassen wrote:
> Hi there,
>
> To people who are suggesting we don't need a steering group nor a name
> for the Zope Framework, please answer the following questions:
>
> * how will the community make hard decisions where lots of people
> disagree? What is the mechanism f
On 3/2/09 10:13 PM, Martin Aspeli wrote:
> We recognised that there was a problem in trying to make sure we
> represented the interests of various stakeholders, and that we needed
> someone to think "big picture" in terms of what technologies we adopted
> and how we used them.
Just to be clear, I
Martijn Faassen wrote:
Hi there,
Joachim Schmitz, long-standing member of the Zope community, died last
weekend. Please see the following:
http://faassen.n--tree.net/blog/view/weblog/2008/05/14/0
That was a wonderfully written memoriam, Martijn, thanks for writing it.
A number of things you
Geoff Davis wrote:
On Thu, 02 Mar 2006 10:38:03 -0500, Jim Fulton wrote:
I think that the idea of giving Zed its own, distinct identity is great.
Zope 3 is a _huge_ overhaul and it needs to be obvious to the world that
it is dramatically better than crufty old Zope 2. Zope 3 then becomes the
Stefane Fermigier wrote:
Geoff Davis wrote:
I think that the idea of giving Zed its own, distinct identity is great..
I think it is stupid.
We (Zope Corp + the Zope Community) have spent 8 years building the Zope
brand, and you want to restart from scratch ?
Hehe, poor Geoff. :)
In the pas
On Jun 17, 2005, at 2:49 PM, Stefane Fermigier wrote:
Paul Everitt wrote:
Other foundations approach things a bit differently. (I did quite
a bit of research on this for the Plone Foundation.)
Eric has done some research recently on the different successful
Open Source / Free
On Jun 17, 2005, at 1:52 PM, Stephan Richter wrote:
On Friday 17 June 2005 07:16, Jean-Marc Orliaguet wrote:
Then when I look at the members of the Plone foundation (
http://plone.org/foundation/about/board/list ) I only see companies,
except that ZC is not represented. So even if every membe
On Jun 17, 2005, at 1:49 PM, Jean-Marc Orliaguet wrote:
However, most members do not write code during their free time, do
they?
What happens when the members write code under working hours, their
respective employers must well have something to say about it?
The PF actually did research o
This is really interesting! A year ago I put Python + Zope on a USB
key, just for fun. It would barely fit so I looked at zip techniques,
and never could figure out how to get ZPTs etc. to load from a ZIP.
How did you do that part?
--Paul
Dieter Maurer wrote:
Dear Zope developers,
we have used
Are you doing this as a XUL app, with an html/xul iframe inside each tab?
--Paul
Jeff Nielsen wrote:
Sorry in advance if this issue has been covered a bzillion times already…
I’m playing with editing my Zope site using Firefox as I can open
Document and Method objects in tabbed windows and swit
On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 11:15:58 +0100, Seb Bacon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Joachim Werner wrote:
There are quite a few Zope-based CMS solutions out there, and most of
them are better than their commercial counterparts in many respects.
But if we had managed to start a joint CMS effort (other tha
Shane Hathaway wrote:
On 02/20/2003 09:06 PM, Tim Hoffman wrote:
In case your not aware Chandler OSAfoundation is basing their new PIM
on RDF/ZODB/Python etc...
if you haven't already it might be worth having a look at how they see
RDF fitting into the picture.
http://www.osafoundation.org/Ch
On Friday, Feb 21, 2003, at 04:16 Europe/Paris, Craeg K Strong wrote:
Paul Everitt wrote:
On jeudi, fév 20, 2003, at 22:15 Europe/Paris, Shane Hathaway wrote:
- RDF is hard to read, but legibility by humans isn't its primary
focus. It's more concerned with providing a way to d
On jeudi, fév 20, 2003, at 22:15 Europe/Paris, Shane Hathaway wrote:
[snip]
With all this in mind, I just studied my Mozilla mimeTypes.rdf file
again. At first, this file looks nasty. I've only defined handlers
for two mime types, application/pdf and application/x-zope-edit, yet
the string
Good grief, how did I miss this!!
Shane Hathaway wrote:
I just read the RDF article published here:
http://www.xml.com/pub/a/2003/02/12/rdflib.html
Yes indeed, that is a very good article.
I've understood the mechanics of RDF for a while, but never understood
what makes it better than what
On Thursday, Oct 3, 2002, at 10:51 Europe/Paris, James Johnson wrote:
> Please don't get me wrong, products like squishdot, CMFZen, and
> others have steered me towards Zope. They are fine examples of the
> things that make Zope appealing. But if you really think about what
> I'm saying yo
On Thursday, Oct 3, 2002, at 07:14 Europe/Paris, Andy McKay wrote:
>
>>I smell commecial interest here. I smell people trying to make
>> that
> one
>> killer project hoping to make it big, instead of centering around the
>> one
>> vehicle that will help make a bunch of projects big someday
On Thursday, Oct 3, 2002, at 03:54 Europe/Paris, James Johnson wrote:
> I've been around the Zope/Python scene for many years. One thing I
> see this group suffer I believe if from the groupthink mentality.
> Imho Alexander Limi "2 cents worth" demonstrated Erik's point
> perfectly. appla
y (though it is quite
useful.)
We hope to have two groups of sprinters, with 6 or 8 people in each
group. This means 3 or 4 pairs.
If you are interested in sprinting and want to participate in the
ongoing development of Zope 3, please email me (Paul Everitt,
[EMAIL PROTECTED]) to sign up.
Mo
Dario Lopez-Kästen wrote:
[snip]
> It seems that ZPT is mostly aimed at the Page Designer, whereas DTML is
> mostly aimed at the Developer. Would this be a correct assesment of the
> situation?
I think that assesment is mostly right. It's definately right on the
ZPT part. As ChrisW mentioned,
ForkedStorage, I like it simply for the coolness of the name. :^)
But it sparked a different kind of idea, leveraging a pattern that might
emerge in Zope 3.
Let's say we had a queue in Zope. We could asynchronously send changes
into the queue. Later, based on some policy (e.g. idle time, cl
I think this conversation is trending in the wrong direction.
Zope 3 needs to make it possible to build YABB, interfaces which support
all browsers while still looking slick, etc.
However, it is important to note: Zope 3 is *not* a product. It is used
to build products. The core ZMI is need
I don't think we can do the geographic coverage without making it too
painful. We should split bug days in half; a few hours in the morning
and a few hours in the afternoon.
--Paul
Brian Lloyd wrote:
> Hi all -
>
> In an effort to better keep up with the collector, I'd like
> to throw out
+1, and I say that knowing that it means I have to help. I'm willing to
write the docs for whoever works on the code.
A gentle reminder on some of the posts in this thread. Please don't
respond with "I'd really like ." Respond with "I'm
willing to do the work for ." That's part of the poi
Take a look at:
http://www.zope.org/Members/haqa/XMLKit/news-1.1.1
Adrian made an interface to ODBC Socket Server.
--Paul
Peeyush Garg wrote:
> Hi,
>
>
>
> What's the current best solution to utilize the combination of Zope on
> Linux and Database as MS-SQL Server running on WinNT. I
Leonardo Rochael Almeida wrote:
> I'm really disappointed with ZC for putting out a new release of Zope
> instead of a fixed version of the release most everyone is currently
> using.
2.4.4 is ready, but there's a problem with the Windows build. I suppose
we could just put the others up there
Whew, at long last, I've posted a Sprint Schedule at:
http://dev.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Projects/ComponentArchitecture/SprintSchedule
Boy, that URL is too long. I edited the dev.zope.org homepage to add
links to the Zope3 page and the sprint schedule. This page also answers
the question, "W
Howdy. This is a last-second email aimed at Washington-area Zope
developers that might want to do a Zope3 extreme programming sprint with
Jim next week, here in Fredericksburg. The dates are any two of Dec
26/27/28. Good knowledge of Python and Zope development required.
Please reply to me
I've taken a while to respond on this, because I wanted to talk it over
with folks here, to think about the specifics of what different ideas
would mean, etc.
In summary, your last paragraph says: "So let's trade in some risks to
the Zope core development (rash action and messed up stuff
happe
Lennart Regebro wrote:
>> Well, all the i18n developers will have a meeting early January in
>> Europe with Jim Fulton in a 2-day brainstorming session.
>
> Excellent! When and where?
Yeh, cat's almost out of the bag on this one. Here's the plan. Note
that all of this is tentative!
As yo
Matt Behrens wrote:
> Shane Hathaway wrote:
>> Again, this is all quite exciting and I hope you can join the action.
>
> I hope to. Who's in charge of packaging and installation? I see an
> opportunity to do it right this time, I hope I'm not too late to the party.
I think this is an excell
Clearly this is a situation that has broken down. I'll suggest a
resolution in a private note to you in a sec.
--Paul
Toby Dickenson wrote:
> On Sat, 1 Dec 2001 08:50:14 -0500, "Andreas Jung"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>>Also I had expect some input of the community regarding at unic
nt Framework" and
> the out-of-the-box solution for site developers that need
> membership, skinning, an easy content management interface, and
> pluggable add-ons, Paul Everitt now calls it "a big prototype for
> the new architecture". Although I think that this is not how
;
> - Original Message -
>
> From: "Andreas Jung" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Joachim Werner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Paul Everitt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
> "Robert Rottermann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Cc: <[EMAIL
Joachim Werner wrote:
> I think that there ARE problems that can not be solved on a mailing list or
> in the fishbowl. One of them is doing a good general design (which we MIGHT
> need for some of the Zope 3.0 issues). I followed all the stuff about the
> CMF and formerly PTK and knew that it was
Agreed completely on both of those points. There's double good news on
both:
1) Someone plans to do something about it.
2) Both are with community involvement.
On documentation, someone in the community has committed to taking over
the Documentation page on zope.org and finally organizing t
Chris was just drinking a beer with us at Orbit's twenty minutes ago,
and now he's responding to email on a Friday night. That's just sick.
I don't think your boss fully appreciates you, number 27. :^)
--Paul
Chris McDonough wrote:
>> The session management framework (formerly known as
>>
I agree that we have to lower the bar. What Seb and I were discussing
is a commitment from a small group of people to help accomplish lowering
the bar. Once it's lowered, then hopefully the rate and impact of
casual contributions will greatly increase.
--Paul
Andrew Kuchling wrote:
> On F
Below is the one response to your message, by someone from ZC. I find
it hard to locate the parts about "censored in a way that would not be
allowed for most commercial products", "the discussion was quickly moved
line", and "these issues are kept strictly confidential".
"""
Please read one
Brian Lloyd wrote:
[snip]
> When we first opened the fishbowl, it was with the certainty that we
> wouldn't get it right immediately. That's why we went with the
> intentially low-tech approach of a pile of Wikis. That first step
> actually worked pretty well for a while until we hit
> cri
Magnus Heino wrote:
>>This is just a guess, but I suspect that this is a sort of unfortunate
>>cycle developing: people post proposals, get (understandably) dismayed
>>at the response time and end up not spending much time there, either
>>contributing or providing feedback.
>>
>
> Well, lets
Magnus Heino wrote:
> Well, that checkin was done to the cvs 4 days ago. If you haven't
> read the one line at dev.zope.org about it being available in the
> cvs, or if you dont subscribe to the cvs mailinglist, how are you
> supposed to know that it exists? :-P
Actually, he sent an email to
Chris McDonough wrote:
>>Those who know of these problems can write clean applications but
>>
> these
>
>>issues are kept strictly
>>confidential.
>>
>
> Isn't this dangerously close to a conspiracy theory?
Yes, he's right -- we hid the information on this top-secret thing
called the "World W
Casey Duncan wrote:
> I propose (as I just did on zope-web) that ZC do one more little thing for
> us. Open the web infrastructure up to a few of us. I would be willing to
> spend a few nights hashing out a "more active" fishbowl system if that's
> what's important. Lets take that first step t
Chris Withers wrote:
> Paul Everitt wrote:
>
>>Moral: there's a difference between correct and right. While we might
>>have good reasons for inattention, it will surely lead to an
>>unsatisfying conclusion. Thus, ZC needs to be smaller part of a larger
>>
seb bacon wrote:
> If we think we're a community, then we should all be responsible for
> building on it. I think we should have a conversation about what
> makes a community work, and then come up with some positive
> suggestions about improving the community *ourselves*. ZC will
> follow,
Lennart Regebro wrote:
> What I do agree on is that Zope corp not always seem to *listen* to the
> community. It is hard to contribute to Zope, and it feels to me that you
> have to fight to make Zope Corp to things the right way, even when you in
> fact already have done the work for them. I don
First, I have to thank you for sparking a long-overdue conversation.
It's true that we at ZC have been staring at our navels for a while.
Though it's reasonable for us to pay first attention to those paying us
money, it can become short-sighted. As you pointed out, everyone in
Zope needs Zope to
Yikes, it was pointed out to me that I typed "amk" instead of "akm".
Though I knew it was Andrew Milton and not Andrew Kuchling, I mixed up
the letters. (In fact, as I was typing it, I was thinking "wow, that
looks like Andrew Kuchling's monogram.")
--P
Whew, that email (and the preceding one in the thread) is quite a
whopper. In substance, amk raises some pretty serious issues that we
need to come to grips with very quickly.
I don't have enough information to respond right now, but trust that
we'll get a good response back today.
Neo-mode
We misfired on an Apache configuration and the Apache's weren't
listening. It should be back.
--Paul
Chris Withers wrote:
> Brian Lloyd wrote:
>
>>Hi all -
>>
>>We've started a new fishbowl project to address version control
>>in Zope:
>>
>>http://dev.zope.org/Projects/Wikis/DevSite/Project
An important aspect to consider: in some cases, you simply need the ZEO
storage server to have large file support. Thus, if you can get the ZSS
running under Python 2.2, then you're set. This is considerably less
ambitious than getting all of Zope (e.g. the catalog) migrated to a new
Python
Phillip J. Eby wrote:
> At 10:23 AM 10/12/01 -0400, Paul Everitt wrote:
>
>> Wow, this is one hell of a thread. :^)
>>
>> FWIW, Grisha put a Bobo publisher in mod_python a couple of years ago.
>> Thus, if you like ZPublisher-style processing, you can do i
d prototype a little bit and see what's involved.
--Paul
Andy McKay wrote:
> So did we at least get a fishbowl out of it?
>
> Cheers.
> --
> Andy McKay.
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Paul Everitt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To:
Wow, this is one hell of a thread. :^)
FWIW, Grisha put a Bobo publisher in mod_python a couple of years ago.
Thus, if you like ZPublisher-style processing, you can do it in Apache
via mod_python.
I outta contact him and see if he'd consider putting page templates in
mod_python. Might be go
Martijn Faassen wrote:
> I'm not entirely sure why the idea of ZTables went away so completely.
> Python tables in the ZODB combined with the catalog should make for an
> interesting system to play with. Though perhaps there are products
> out there that actually do this. Come to think of it, Me
Dieter Maurer wrote:
> Paul Everitt writes:
> <http://dev.zope.org/CVS/Contributor.pdf>
>
> The "Committer Agreement" does not seem to be even handed:
>
>The committer transfers rights immediately and indefinitely
>to Zope Corporation (the con
Whew, what a proposal and what a good sign!
As several have noted, there are quite a few proposals in the fishbowl
that deal with different aspects of the problems. There's also a draft
proposal that we had here in ZC that expands on the items. Finally,
there appear to be a few pieces of so
First, just a friendly reminder that there is a zodb-dev mailing list.
On this, check out Andrew Kuchling's page about ZEO development:
http://www.amk.ca/zodb/zodb-zeo.html
There's a section at the bottom with a brief discussion of
ConflictError, what it means, and how to handle it. Zope
er the ZPL and the
joint ownership model of the Zope Contributor Agreement. Please respond
agreeing that you understand the ZPL, the joint ownership model, and
allow this contribution under these terms."
How does that sound?
--Paul
R. David Murray wrote:
> On Thu, 20 Sep 2001, Paul
I'd like to add some misinformation...errmm, comments. :^) On the
version control side, you're quite right, we're still behind on it.
There _are_ some ways to get there, if you try hard enough. But that's
unacceptible.
There are two things long term that need to be done: filesystem
synchro
Martijn Faassen wrote:
>> http://dev.zope.org/CVS/Contributor.pdf
>>
>
> This says 'you must indicate your agreement to the term below'; shouldn't
> it be 'terms'?
Uhh...well...yes! I'll make the change. I'm waiting for news back from
the lawyer about provisions for handling patches. I'l
in
case we decide at some point to change from the ZPL to a different
open source license.
Make sense?
--Paul
Morten W. Petersen wrote:
> On Thu, 20 Sep 2001, Paul Everitt wrote:
>
>
>>So, let's begin what I'm sure will be a lively and illuminating
>>discuss
Joachim Werner wrote:
[snip]
> What I haven't found on the CVS site yet is anything about peer-reviewing
> contributions before they go into the main tree. While I sometimes have the
> feeling that there are fixes from ZC people that should NOT have made it
> into a release, there are many patche
I just took a look at ODBC Socket Server, which I had never seen before.
Pretty interesting! Here's some comments.
1) It looks like socket server opens a new socket for processing every
request. In this respect, it goes against one of the benefits of
database adapters, which keep a persis
Do others consider this a vulnerability? While it reveals more
information than people might want, I'm curious about scenarios under
which it could be exploited.
If any of you know of something *specific*, meaning it's a genuinely
exploitable vulnerability, please email me or Brian Lloyd
([
I'll reply in more depth later (on the way out for my b-day dinner), but
in short: I think the issue of overhead on patches is something for us
to consider. We won't do something that breaks the integrity of the
code base, but there might be ample discussion directions. Thanks!
--Paul
Diet
), we might want to revisit it.
Either way, I'll get an answer for you, thanks!
--Paul
Morten W. Petersen wrote:
> On Thu, 20 Sep 2001, Paul Everitt wrote:
>
>
>>So, let's begin what I'm sure will be a lively and illuminating
>>discussion. :^)
>>
&g
At last, the announcement I've been dying to make. After much
deliberation -- meaning, I've procrastinated for too long :^) -- I'm
pleased to announce our approach for opening the CVS repository to
community checkins. The first round of materials are open for public
discussion at:
http://dev
But
we've told people that we're intending to give it a shot.
--Paul
Federico Di Gregorio wrote:
> hi,
>
> i wanted to draw myself from this thread before annoying the whole list,
> so i'll take paul mail as an excuse to write some final comments.
>
> On 27 Jun
With great trepidation, I add a post to this thread. As Barry has
mentioned, this has all been discussed a LOT. I'll try to summarize and
clarify a few points:
1) I wanted to specifically address something in Michael's post here.
We fully expect people to profit from Zope, even if that mean
Hmm, I'm surprised that 2 days has passed with no comment from zope-dev
and no comments in the Wiki. I hear constant complaints about lack of a
polished API. I expected this post to generate lots of interest.
What say ye, zope-dev? Is this something we should be doing, or would
you prefer a d
Lalo Martins wrote:
> By "hoping that EC will go away soon", I assume they mean the
> PythonLabs folks are working on fixing this for once in Python
> itself. Right?
That is correct. The point is, ExtensionClass machinery will go away
but the functionality would remain, if Python changes in th
As one more example, Zope.org is currently at 4.8 Gb on FileStorage.
--Paul
"R. David Murray" wrote:
>
> On Fri, 1 Jun 2001 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > My impression is that FileStorage implements a 32-bit id-type-thingy
> > somewhere (look at ZODB docs, I think there is something about this
Some quick points on this.
First, feel free to talk on this list about ways that Zope
developers can license their stuff. It's a constructive
discussion, and since I'm not a Zope developer, I can ignore
it. :^)
Second, regarding the licensing of Zope itself, ChrisP is
right that I'm the guy on
Andy McKay wrote:
> > What problem are you trying to solve -- response time, memory usage,
> > disk usage?
>
> All of the above :)
Describe some of the symptoms back on the list and let's talk about it
there. For instance, you can trade RAM for performance by adjusting
knobs on the catalog.
--
I wanted to step back a few jumps in this thread and point out a few
things...
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > Our "XHTML Templates Proposal" is at:
> >
> > http://dev.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Proposals/XHTMLTemplatesProposal
>
> It is not linked on the Proposals FrontPage...
You're right, I'll g
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Exactly. You've just described the "components" aspect of this idea, which was left
>out of the
> Paul's original post. A component is just a tag marked with a special attribute
>that names it (and
> its path, if it has been saved). It can contain other components,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> BTW, please don't call the solution "xHTML Template"; it's not
> xHTML, it's generic XML - it can easily be used for RSS or WML
> or MathML or NewsML for example.
While it *can* be used that way (just as DTML can be used to send mail
messages), that's not the real inten
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> IMHO, view, page, and stylesheet don't make the grade due to
> conflicts/confusion with unrelated technologies (e.g. MVC, "server pages",
> CSS, etc.).
On the other hand, reading the "What is styles?" material at:
http://www.w3.org/Style/
...makes me think that the
Howdy folks. As advertised in my last email, below is our Fishbowl
Proposal on a new template architecture. Some notes:
1) This mostly replaces DTML. As mentioned, the goal isn't necessarily
to get DTML removed from Zope. Rather, most of the audience will see it
little or none of the time.
I'm surprised that no one responded to this. (Or maybe people did and
our continual email server problems have lost it.)
I'd like to congratulate Hiperlogica, because they have (ding ding ding)
the _right answer_! :^)
Seriously, we at Digital Creations have been quietly formulating a
proposal
Hello sports fans. Last week we released a beta of OracleStorage.
There was a pretty strong drumbeat in Zopeland for us to go ahead and
get this out. We spent some extra time on the installation process and
instructions to make sure it was straightforward to use.
We at DC would like to get Or
I can add a bit more background on the decision to have the API docs not
rendered from the source.
First, Zope used to have an online help system that inspected the source
and rendered documenation on the fly. Very nice indeed. But we yanked
it.
Why? The most primary reason is philosophical,
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